Pleasure As Nourishment with Amanda Testa

Pleasure As nourishment with Amanda Testa

On this week’s pod, I’m going to share with you why pleasure is vital nervous system care. It is not a luxury. It is actually a need for our systems, and some easy ways to invite in more pleasure and to cultivate a sensual self-care practice. 

I love sensual self-care and want to teach everyone how to cultivate this practice so you can get your daily dose of pleasure, your daily dose of vitamin P. One of my client refers to me as her erotic fairy godmother, and I really love that term because as Esther Perel says, “Eroticism is the antidote to death.”

The root of the word means force of life.  Your Life force.

and yes, it is my mission to help women feel more ALIVE! To feel vitality and radiance in every cell of their being.  To know that they are worthy, just by being alive – that they deserve to know their needs, to ask for their needs, and receive their needs at the deepest levels. To THRIVE not just exist in survival mode. To remember who they are, their divine gifts, show up confidently and feel amazing.To have fabulously fulfilling relationships, with themselves and those they love. And yes incredible sex too! To enjoy the full beauty and pain and joy and sadness, embracing fully all the aspects of this gorgeous life we are blessed to live. Enjoy!

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

In this episode you’ll discover

Why pleasure is a vital for our nervous systems and why it’s such a great tool to use.How to rewire our “Negativity Bias”.Why we push pleasure away, and why there is so much wrapped up in that concept that can feel out of reach.What is sensual self care, and how to create a practice of receiving your daily Vitamin P.The science of creating behavioral change.Steps for a sensual self care ritual.Enjoy a mini pleasure practice.and much more!

JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION ON THIS EPISODE AND MORE IN MY FREE FACEBOOK GROUP, FIND YOUR FEMININE FIRE HERE.

Check out the 21 Days Of Sensual Self Care mini Course HERE.

If you liked this episode, please consider giving me a 5 Star Review on Apple Podcasts! It truly does help the podcast grow. 

If you are feeling it is HIGH TIME for more pleasure and satisfaction in your life, Schedule a confidential heart to heart connection call with Amanda HERE.

Pleasure and Nourishment: with Amanda Testa

Amanda Testa: Welcome to the podcast today. It is your host, Amanda Testa, and today, we are going to be talking about the power of sensual self-care pleasure as nourishment. I am a sex, love, and relationship coach AKA your erotic fairy godmother, and I am here on this planet to help women remember their own unique magic by awakening their life force through energy, through pleasure. 

Today, I’m going to share with you, number one, why pleasure is vital. Self-nourishment, why it is vital nervous system care. It is not a luxury. It is actually a need for our systems. Number two, some easy ways to invite in more pleasure and to cultivate a sensual self-care practice. I love sensual self-care and how to cultivate this practice so you can get your daily dose of pleasure, your daily dose of vitamin P. One of my clients, years ago, referred to be as her erotic fairy godmother, and I really love that term because as Esther Perel says, “Eroticism is the antidote to death.” 

0:01:04

I just think that’s so important and powerful, right? Eroticism is way more than sex, too. Of course, sex is one amazing way to enjoy eroticism, but the root of the word means a force of life or life force. I do feel it’s so needed for women to become more alive and to know that just by being, you are enough, you are worthy to be able to know your needs, ask for your needs, and receive your needs, to thrive, right, and to have fabulously fulfilling relationships with yourself and those you love and yes, incredible sex too, [Laughs] to really enjoy all the aspects of this gorgeous life we’re blessed to live. It’s really, truly possible for all of us.

I’m curious when it comes to the word pleasure, what comes up for you because it can be very normal that it brings up a plethora of things, you know? There are layers and nuances to it, and that’s okay, right? However this word lands for you, that is okay because it can be wrapped up in a lot of things, and when I’m talking about pleasure, I’m talking about inviting in more of what feels good in a way that feels doable for you, right? 

0:02:07

It’s all about doability and finding a way to nourish yourself that actually feels good to you. Our daily nourishment of our eros, right, our life-force energy. This is what pleasure does. It nourishes our life force, and that’s why it is so key because, really, I love using pleasure as a tool to nourish ourselves and our nervous systems, and with sensual self-care, that’s what you’re doing. It can be so simple. It can be enjoying a cup of tea. It can be meditating for five minutes. It can be hugging a loved one. Yes, it can be multi-orgasms. It can be a very large variety of things. So when I’m inviting you into cultivating this practice, it’s finding a way to do it that’s actually realistic, that’s actually nourishing, and I’m gonna talk about how to do that more. 

I want to just briefly talk about why pleasure is a vital for our nervous systems and why it’s such a great tool to use. 

0:03:03

Really, our nervous system is so intertwined with our experience of sex, with everything, really, right? It’s a huge part of who we are, and I’d like to talk with you a little bit about a concept called wur window of tolerance or range of resilience, as Brigit Viksnins says. Window of tolerance is a term from Dan Siegel, and, really, what that means and why — I’ll briefly explain this ‘cause if you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while you might have heard this before but I just briefly want to talk about it because, really, what we’re trying to do is build a strong foundation. 

If you think about a big, 200-year-old oak tree that’s huge and wide and it’s got roots that are so deep and it can weather all the hurricanes, right, versus a small, little sapling that the big gust of wind is gonna just knock it right over and send it flying down the road. This is what we want to do for ourselves, for our nervous systems. We want to cultivate the capacity for depth, for strength, for holding, for being, and have this really strong foundation so that when the winds of life blow through, as they will, that we can easily come back to a place of resilience, to a place of calm. 

0:04:14

It’s normal that we’re gonna be anxious sometimes. It’s normal that we’re gonna be sad sometimes. It’s normal that we’re gonna feel all the feels, but when we have a healthy range of resilience, when we have a healthy window of tolerance, we’re more likely to be able to come back to a place of feeling good more quickly, right? And so, really, one of the definitions of trauma is too much, too fast, too soon, and that can be something good, too, right? So we want to increase our window for pleasure and also increase the capacity for arousal so we can hold more of what’s good. Oftentimes, we just have to build that ability to hold what’s good. 

I like how Gay Hendricks refers to this as, like, an upper-limit problem sometimes, right? 

0:04:59

So you get to a point where if things are going really good, you might do something to kind of self-sabotage that in a way, and sometimes it’s just life that happens, right? But knowing that the more we can expand our capacity to hold arousal energy, the more we can enjoy what’s good, the more we can handle stress, the more we can be resilient in times of challenge. And so, that’s how pleasure helps our nervous system. We can actually rewire our brains to feel more pleasure to default to pleasure. This is really important as humans because we have what is called a negativity bias. 

A negativity bias is our tendency, not only, to register negative stimuli more readily but also to dwell on these events, and this is an evolutionary gift that we now still hold because it came to being so that we avoided things that could kill us, but it doesn’t always necessarily serve us today. So this is why, when we work to default to pleasure, it becomes easier for us to do so. The good news is that our brains are able to be rewired to feel more pleasure. 

0:06:02

The more we engage in pleasurable experiences, the easier it is to receive as well, and this is why we do the tool. This is why creating a rhythm of sensual self-care is important, so that when the arousal happens, when the stress happens, when the pleasure happens, when the goodness happens, our system is strong enough to contain that and run that energy through our systems without shutting down.

So, as I mentioned before, when we’re talking about the window of tolerance, when we’re in that range, we easily bounce back and forth between arousal and hypo-arousal, but we’re able to come back to a range of feeling good pretty quickly. When we are living in a lot of stress, like, stress, stress, go, go, do, do, never having a minute to sit, never have a minute to rest, always rushing, always onto the next thing, we can get into this real high anxious state, right, where we’re stressed and anxious all the time. The littlest things set us off. You know, you drop your keys and it’s a plethora of exploitatives out of your mouth and screaming at your kids and all the things. This is anxiety, right? 

0:07:00

When you feel this anxiousness, we can get sometimes stuck up here in this hyper state, though, then we can just burn ourselves right out instead of dropping into the window of tolerance, we’re going all the way down into a hypo-arousal state, one of depression or just like ugh, I can’t even go on or you might get sick or all the things that could happen, but just feeling ugh, I’m just too exhausted, I can’t even put one foot in front of the other, but oh, I’ve got to pay bills, so then you’re ah, I’ve gotta go back in and you’re back in that stress state, right?

So the key is nourishing our bodies, nourishing our systems so that we can stay in the range of resilience, so that we can come back to a place of feeling regulated, feeling that we can handle what’s coming across our plate, feeling like we have the capacity to hold the good, the bad, all the things. So this is why I love pleasure. You know, it’s about creating rhythms that feel good to you because we are cyclical creatures, right? We can be in different seasons of our lives. 

0:08:01

We can be in different seasons of our months. We can be in maybe a very fertile, maybe a summertime, maybe a very joyous time of our life, right? Maybe we might be in a more withdrawn phase. Maybe it’s more of a wintery, slow phase. Maybe things are dormant, and that’s okay too. 

So it’s honoring where you are and showing up to celebrate yourself in that way. That is the beauty of the sensual self-care practice is you show up with your intention to honor yourself, to give yourself what you need, to tune in because, so often, we don’t listen to our body’s cues. We override them, and that is partly our culture, right, partly our conditioning, partly that we don’t trust our own body’s wisdom sometimes. And so, this is the beauty of cultivating a sensual self-care practice. You can tune into yourself. You can find what is the pleasure for the season of the life that I am in right now? What is the pleasure I need in this moment today? What is my need right now?

0:09:00

I’m curious if you were to even ponder that question for yourself. What is it that you need right now in this instant? What do you need? If you knew that your needs mattered, what do you need, and is it possible to offer it to yourself in some small way, right? Maybe you feel lonely. Maybe you need connection, so what about — if even just for right now, you wrap your arms around yourself, you bring to your mind’s eye a picture of someone that you love or that you would love to spend time with or a memory of a time where you felt very connected, and just allow that experience to flood your system with goodness in a way that feels doable. You’re listening to what you need, and you’re offering that to yourself in some small way, and then how does it feel to really receive that? How does it feel to let that in? Maybe it feels easy. Maybe it feels challenging, and that’s okay. Just honoring where you are, and that can be the simplicity of a sensual self-care practice.

0:10:06

So often, though, we push pleasure away, and I do believe pleasure is not a luxury; I believe it is a need. So why do we push it away? Well, number one, we might not trust pleasure, right? As I mentioned earlier, too much, too fast, too soon. Maybe it’s been an experience where it wasn’t always great. So we have to find ways of engaging with what feels good in a way that feels doable for us, not overwhelming ourselves, right? So many times I talk to women who are afraid of surrender, right? The surrender that comes with pleasure. Letting go, letting go, letting go of the outcome, letting go of what you might have to do next, letting go of the grocery list in your head. Letting go can be such a challenging thing, right? Perhaps, you feel it’s a waste of time. Perhaps, you feel it’s frivolous. Perhaps, you feel it’s a luxury, and granted, yes, a privilege it can be to be able to have the time and space, but also it doesn’t have to involve a lot of time and space, right? 

0:11:04

It can be as simple as taking three breaths. It can be as simple as going to the bathroom and actually giving yourself five minutes to breathe and to just relax.

So, oftentimes, we do, though. There’s a lot of shame and guilt around pleasure, right? We have these ideals in our culture of extraction and productivity and just, like, giving, giving, giving constantly, and also, for women it can be very in our nature to give, and we love giving, and we love helping others and offering our love and support, but also, we need to receive it as well, right? As I said before, when we are able to allow pleasure in, when we’re able to allow that self-trust to surrender into what feels good, it can increase your window of tolerance, it can increase your resilience, and we experience pleasure — we all experience it differently, right, as a result of our individual differences and biology or neurokinestry, past experiences, cultural factors, all the things, but we can allow it to nourish ourselves in a way that feels good for us. So this is part of the beautiful sensual self-care practice, is creating a way it feels good for you.

0:12:09

So what is sensual self-care? What does a sensual self-care practice look like? Sensual self-care is a daily ritual to feel radiant, to feel sexy, to feel energized, to ignite that feminine fire within us, creating a ritual of this daily connection to yourself and honoring where you are in the moment, honoring whatever’s alive in you, and accepting it. Granted, it’s easier said than done, but that’s why it’s a practice. That’s why you show up again and again. What I love about rituals is that they speak to the most primal part of our brain, right? The primal brain speaks in symbols and sensations, so when you create a ritual, you’re adding a lot of language for the primal brain to speak with in a way, so it brings it more online. It’s also an outward manifestation of a conscious intent. When we place our intention into any action, the power of that act is magnified, right? When we get all of ourselves on board, our brain, our subconscious, all the pieces and parts of us, we’re more likely to get to our goal. 

0:13:05

Our brain loves ease. It likes easy things, right? This is, often, what I work deeper with in my clients because sometimes there are deeper pieces and resistance that need more deep work, you know, more deeper traumas that need integration, and more healing is required so that you can feel really safe and deserving and worthy of receiving your goals, worthy of receiving pleasure. 

And so, the beauty of setting up our ritual for sensual self-care is you only need a few minutes a day, right? Number one is you need to set up your space for pleasure. Really setting up an environment that feels good to you. This could be as simple as clearing off a bedside table and having a candle there, right? It could be as extravagant as having, maybe, an extra space in your home where you really set it up for pleasure. You have beautiful things that make your whole body smile, right? Colors you love, textures you love, decorate it in a way that feels really cozy and yummy. 

0:14:00

That can be one of the ways you can go about this, right? Or it can just be, like I said, having some little spot, maybe a box that you put some items in that connect you to yourself that maybe connect you to some intentions you have, maybe have a little altar-y setup with things that you love that make you feel good, and you visit that, but setting up that space is kind of giving your brain an opportunity to connect that this is something special going on here, okay? Maybe even clearing your space. That’s actually a beautiful part of the process is you clear a little space because, not only are you energetically clearing the space, you are physically cleaning the space so that you can really have room to drop in and honor yourself in whatever way feels doable.

Then, you just drop in and enjoy whatever it is, right? The second thing is just dropping in, and knowing that, you know, when it comes to creating behaviors, when it comes to creating habits that stick — I love the book Tiny Habits from BJ Fogg, and he talks about the three keys to creating rituals that stick. 

0:15:03

Number one is the reminder, right? There is a trigger that happens. It’s easier to remember to do something after something else. So think of things that you do regularly that you could use for the trigger. Like, I love the ritual space ‘cause I  know when I go in there, that triggers my mind okay, we’re gonna do something special here. I like to just clean off my bedside table, and light a candle, and that’s, for me, just so easy and doable ‘cause I’m already doing that in the space, right? So another could be, for example, after I open my eyes in the morning, I will drink a glass of water that’s next to my bed. After I brush my teeth, I will look at myself in the mirror and give myself a complement. After I open my computer, I will take three deep breaths. before I go to bed at night, I’m gonna place my hand over my pussy and tell it I love it, right? I’m going to offer my body some nourishment in some small way. Whatever it is, right?

The second thing is the doing, the ritual, actually doing of the habit, the action of doing the thing. Making it short and sweet makes it doable, so as you get started, I like to invite in simple things, right? 

0:16:02

Maybe you have a journal next to your bed, and you write down your pleasurable things from the day. I love a pleasure journal because, again, the more we default to pleasure, the more it’s easier for our brain to see what’s pleasurable around us, the more we’re able to drop in. When it comes to having great sex, feeling connected, it’s not just about one aspect of our life; it’s about all of the aspects in our lives, and the better we feel overall, the more we feel connected to our desires, the more we feel turned on by what’s good in our life, the easier it is to open up to feeling turned on in more ways, right? So number two: doing the habit.

Number three: reward. You will add a little celebration into whatever you’re doing, right? So, perhaps, you finish your ritual, you blow out the candle, and you’re like yay, I did it, right? Maybe you pat yourself on the back. Maybe you give yourself a little shimmy. Whatever it is that helps you feel good for what you’ve done. BJ Fogg names that term “shine,” and it’s really that feeling of pride you get after doing something good for yourself, and the more you can connect to that feeling, the more likely you’re able to do the action again. 

0:17:04

Those are the three keys, right? I love setting the ritual space because that’s my trigger. Maybe there’s something else that can be your trigger to do the ritual. Number two, actually doing the thing, and number three, celebrating, giving yourself a little bit of a reward. 

What are some ways that you can enjoy a pleasure practice, you might be asking. So I love creating a pleasure practice in numerous ways, and even right now, I’m gonna invite you into joining me for a quick little few-minute pleasure practice. Again, if you’re driving or whatnot, you can just engage in this practice whatever way is doable and safe for you right now.

So what I love to do is, again, creating my little ritual space. So, for you, right now, you might not have had that put together and done, so just in your mind’s eye, maybe if you want to close your eyes. If you’re driving, you can listen to this another time or just listen and mentally note what I’m saying. 

0:18:00

Maybe visualize a space around you that is beautiful and clean. If you could create the ultimate pleasure palace spot for yourself, what might it look like? What are some elements of that you would love to see around you or smell or taste or hear? Maybe you have some gentle music playing. Maybe you have some warm blankets or a fan if you’re hot. Maybe you have a candle. Maybe you have some essential oils. All these little things. You know, whatever it is that makes your experience just a smidge more pleasurable, right, just a little bit more pleasurable. And then, I like to have an intention. So, perhaps, for this few-minute practice, just think what your intention might be.

So, for me, my intention is going to be just to connect to what feels good in this moment in my body, in whatever way I can, and celebrate the heck out of it. 

0:18:59

So I love to start with just really taking my hands and infusing that intention into my hands, just touching my hands, rubbing them back and forth, noticing how it feels to gently touch the tips of my fingertips together, just noticing the sensations there, rubbing my fingers on my hands, and just noticing what does it feel like to touch my skin? What does it feel like to be touched? Also, really, infusing my hands with love, with acceptance, with kindness, with honoring, and just really noticing how that feels. Noticing your hands and all that they’re capable of. Maybe just taking a moment to honor all that you’ve created with your hands in your lifetime. What a magnificent gift.

As you, perhaps, touch your fingers together, maybe you want to invite in a little gentle touch to your face, mabe noticing how it feels to gently stroke your cheeks, maybe your lips, maybe your hair. 

0:20:16

Maybe giving yourself a gentle little massage on your head. Maybe inviting in a little supportive hold. One that I love is placing one hand on your forehead — one hand cupping your forehead, and one hand on the back of your neck, and just holding your head in between your hands, just noticing if there’s any pleasure you can connect to in that, any pleasure of feeling supported. Even by your own two hands feeling that. [Deep breath out] Perhaps, taking a deep breath. [Deep breath out] Adding in an audible sigh when I breathe if I need to. 

0:21:00

[Audible sigh] Just taking a few moments here, and noticing where might your body want to be touched, how might you want to offer some touch to yourself, and really celebrating where it feels good.

Noticing, as you connect to something that feels good, how might it feel to just hold that for a couple seconds? Does it feel okay to just notice can I hold that for one moment more than I normally would? Maybe one millisecond more than I normally would. Also, really, just honoring the state of your body, the state of your being in this very moment. It’s okay to be exactly as you are. You matter. Your needs matter. You are here. You are now. You matter, and you’re enough just as you are in this moment. Maybe even just placing your hands on your heart if that feels good or maybe just bringing your awareness to your heart and taking three breaths here. Honoring yourself for doing this little practice. Honoring yourself for being open to connect to what feels good. Perhaps, noticing if you feel any different in your body, in your being now, than you did a few minutes ago. Just being curious, and when you’re reading, you can bring your awareness back to your space, stretch and give a little celebration. Yeah, I did it! A little shimmy, maybe, whatever feels good. I love a shimmy. I love to shimmy my chest AKA Betty White. 

0:23:01

[Laughs] It’s so fun for me. Ah, so there you go. That can be your ritual for today, and if this is something that you are interested in learning more about or you want to dive into more sensual self-care, I invite you to reach out. I also have a beautiful 21-Day Sensual Self-Care mini-course that you can get at www.amandatesta.com/21days and it’s really just a daily practice that’s ten minutes or less to connect you to your sensual self, and I really feel like cultivating this habit can be a little challenging at first, but it’s so worthwhile in the end because the more that you can default to what feels good in your system, the easier it is to find the good and to find the resilience needed to take action for what’s important to you, right, and to show up the way you want to for your family, for your partner, for your kids, for your community, for the world, right? 

0:24:01

I do believe that this vitamin P, your daily vitamin P, will help to increase your energy, increase your life force, and I am happy to help you if you feel you need extra support in that way because, truly, our nervous system is such a huge foundation for what we need, what we want to bring into this life and having the capacity to do it in a way that is actually gonna feel good, in a way that you can maintain and build on whatever you’re creating without burning out, the way you can show up again and again when things get hard, when things get challenging in your family, in your relationship, whatever that may be, in life.

Thank you so much for listening. I’m sending you all so much love. I just want you to feel in every cell of your being, the love that you are, the love that’s available to you. Ah, I just am so grateful for each and every one of you. 

0:24:58

Thank you for listening, and I will see you next week.

Relating and Cultivating Community in Challenging Times with Kimberly Ann Johnson

Relating and cultivating Community in Challenging Times with Kimberly Ann Johnson

For many it feels like aspects of community and being together has changed since the pandemic.  Thankfully there is much we can do to create the belonging we crave, and to work with our nervous systems to move back into ways of connection that feel good.This week I’m talking with Kimberly Ann Johnson, a Sexological Bodyworker, Somatic Experiencing practitioner, yoga teacher, postpartum advocate, and single mom on relating and cultivating community in challenging times.

Working hands-on in integrative women’s health and trauma recovery for more than a decade, she helps women heal from birth injuries, gynecological surgeries, and sexual boundary violations. Kimberly is the author of the Call of the Wild: How We Heal Trauma, Awaken Our Own Power, and Use It for Good, as well as the early mothering classic The Fourth Trimester, and is the host of the Sex Birth Trauma podcast.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

In this episode you’ll discover

What is social atrophy, and why we may be feeling this after the pandemic.How to work with our nervous system to build the capacity for connection.What it means to belong to each other, and becoming “community worthy”. What are the things that have shifted for you internally, that are new compasses as a result of  what we’ve been through these past few years?  Why nervous system skills and understanding are  foundational for sexuality and relating. What it can look like to be committed to your own nervous system, putting your health and well being first.What are some of the important qualities of being-ness that could infuse our intimate encounters with more pleasure and ease?and much more!

JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION ON THIS EPISODE AND MORE IN MY FREE FACEBOOK GROUP, FIND YOUR FEMININE FIRE HERE.

Kimberly Ann Johnson is a Sexological Bodyworker, Somatic Experiencing trauma resolution practitioner, yoga teacher trainer, birth doula, and single mom. She is the author of Call of the Wild: How We Heal Trauma, Awaken Our Own Power and Use It for Good as well as the early mothering classic, The Fourth Trimester: A Postpartum Guide to Healing Your Body, Balancing Your Emotions and Restoring Your Vitality. She is the creator of Activate Your Inner Jaguar, an online course ushering thousands of women into their full voices and sexual expression, and the host of the Sex Birth Trauma podcast. 

Kimberly Ann Johnson graduated Valedictorian in the School of Education and Social Policy at Northwestern University. Now she brings her policy focus to women’s health. She conducts retreats, workshops, and trainings, nationally internationally, teaching thousands of women and birth professionals worldwide about postpartum care, self-care for new mothers, and sexual health. Kimberly is in private practice in Encinitas, CA. Her most outstanding accomplishment is being a single mom to her 13-year-old Brazilian daughter, Cecilia. 

Connect with Kimberly here and there is still time to register for her latest course (I’m taking it and HIGHLY recommend her work, I don’t get compensated for this I just love her) Activate your Inner Jaguar here

Follow her on FB HERE

And find her on Instagram HERE.

If you liked this episode, please consider giving me a 5 Star Review on Apple Podcasts! It truly does help the podcast grow. 

Want more support in bringing your desires to life?  Schedule a confidential heart to heart with Amanda HERE.

EPISODE 203: with Kimberly Ann Johnson

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex, love, and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex, love, and relationships, and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome!

So welcome, everyone to the podcast. Today, I am so excited because I am going to be talking to a mentor. I have been reading her books since I first had my daughter, what, forever ago? I really just so value her wisdom around healing after trauma, around sex and motherhood, and awakening our inner power and using it for good. Welcome to the podcast today, Kimberly Ann Johnson. Thank you for being here.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Thank you so much.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, she’s a sexological body worker, a somatic experiencing practitioner, yoga teacher, postpartum advocate, and single mom, and really has been in this work of hands-on helping women heal from birth trauma and gynecological surgeries and sexual boundary validations for over a decade. 

0:01:06

She’s written a few books as I’ve mentioned before. She wrote The Fourth Trimester which is how I first learned of her. It’s been such a beautiful tool in my own experience and I often gift it to my clients and friends that are going through the process of becoming a parent, and also, her most recent book, Call of The Wild: How We Heal Trauma, Awaken Our Own Power, and Use It For Good. I just really appreciate her authentic way of sharing such deep information and making it very digestible. I have also had the pleasure of being in her courses and love, love learning from you. So thank you for being here!

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Thank you so much for having me.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I’d love to, you know, just start with maybe sharing a little bit about what you’re most excited about going on right now in your own work.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: The things I’m most excited about right now — and we’re talking in February 2021 — 2022, actually. 2022. It’s so disorienting during these days so I try to repeat the date to myself often so that I can situate myself.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

0:02:08

Kimberly Ann Johnson: I worked on a conversation series at the end of last year with Stephen Jenkinson. I have a podcast, and we did two podcasts together, and then we did a five conversation series together. He’s almost 70. He’s worked a lot with death and elderhood and culture making, and those conversations were really different for me. They held a lot of spiritual truths that maybe could have been construed as familiar as part of my yoga education and background, but they really struck a totally different chord as well. To me, it feels like he’s doing decolonization work and culture work but without using politically correct — it’s not incorrect language, it’s just also not leftist recognizable language, and that conversation series was on the heels of trying to have open conversations with people about their positions on vaccines and not being able to because I found that there was no common thread for a conversation even though I wasn’t doing it as a fact-checker or journalist; I was just trying to have a human conversation.

0:03:21

So we’re making those conversations into a book, and we’re self-publishing it, and that all just feels very exciting because it feels very renegade on a certain level because my first book is at Shambhala, my second book is at Harper Wave (which is the feminist branch of Harper Collins), and that was a big deal for me to get a big book deal and to have it be in a mainstream press, but it feels very fun to kind of take my stuff back and do it the way that I want to do it. It’s a conversation book which I think is exciting to me because I’ve only really ever read a few conversation books, and they’re kind of in the ecumenical category, so I’m really excited about that. 

0:04:03

I’m also really excited — this year, I’m helping to organize and fund a project called The Fourth Trimester Community Care project where I had this idea long ago, and I spouted it off on a podcast just like this, and when I spouted it off I said, “Anyone who wants this idea, go ahead and take it, ‘cause in this lifetime, I’m not sure I’m gonna be able to do it.” Loe and behold, Katie Baker of Eastern Tennessee State University – School of Community Health called me up and said, “I want to take the  idea!” I’m like, “Fantastic!”

So we’re training 40 women who are in their 40s, 50s, and 60s who are called veteran moms which means they’re not moms of veterans, they just are moms in postpartum care. I’ll go there in July and train them, and they will be matched up with new moms, and so, new moms will have four hours of care per week for six to ten weeks. 

0:04:57

Then, we’ll do a study about all of the things that we measure and don’t measure right now in terms of what it means to recover postpartum because, as you know and most people listening know, really, the only measure of postpartum health at this point is a six week checkup, and it’s just basically like okay, good. You’re not hemorrhaging, and your organs aren’t falling out, and maybe some people get an internal check and some people don’t. Some people get prescriptions, at that point, for birth control or antidepressants, and what we’ve decided to call postpartum care is a mental health checklist.

So people will actually get physiological care. They’ll get body work. They’ll get vaginal steaming. They’ll get some education and good food, and they’ll get care. Then we’ll see — does that actually impact people’s mental health, and I think you can tell just by your reaction, and also anyone listening, it just makes sense. It’s, like, common sense tells us yeah, okay, if you know someone’s coming to take care of you — not your baby, not anyone in your house, but you once a week, is that optimal? No, because optimal would be that you had someone caring for you most of the time, but it’s sort of the minimal effective dose. 

0:06:10

And so, I’m thrilled that we’ll be able to have some data and we’ll have sort of a replicable model that we can take (almost like community-organizing franchises) into other neighborhoods and communities. So I’m pretty pumped about that because even though I’m a trauma practitioner and, originally, a body worker, my heart is really in social justice, and I realized that even more this past weekend. 

I was with a friend who is getting a PhD in history, and I can’t even get myself to read a psychology book. I mean, I just couldn’t care less about psychology, [laughs] and I’m supposed to — this is sort of my — I mean, it really isn’t my field because I’m a body person and psychology is — not that it’s completely different, but you get me into the political science and the history and I’m all in. 

0:07:03

So I’m really, really excited. I love working with people one-on-one, and I love the online courses that I teach which is, basically, democratizing nervous system information and sexuality, and I really care a lot about changing structures and creating new community models.

Amanda Testa: That’s so important, and I love that study. I’m excited to hear more about it. It even made me feel a little emotional as you were talking about it, because that seems so necessary and, sadly, so lacking right now. I have a close friend who just had a baby, and especially now in the pandemic of being very isolated and being very afraid to be around others, a lot of us, I think, I know for myself, that experience of internalizing the fear. Is it safe to touch another person, or will I — you know, will my whole family be exposed, or the real losses that have happened. And so, it’s a lot to hold and manage. When you think about community care I’m like yes, we need that so deeply right now.

0:08:01

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Definitely. Of course, now, we’re in a completely different situation than we were two years ago just with our own nervous systems and, what I’ve started calling, social atrophy which is, like, this thing that we know we need to be around people but it’s taking extra effort to make that happen. It feels strange when it does happen even though we know we need it, and it’s like we have to know that that’s what we need, and we have to be able to endure in a way that’s sound for our nervous systems so that we can build our capacity back up to be able to have what we actually need. But, for sure, the reason that the post-partum time captivated me in the first place was because it was the first right of passage that I went though that was so obvious that it was showing me a cultural black hole. Even though my own personal experience was very challenging, I knew even in the moment it was happening this can’t just be about me because I’m a yoga teacher, and I know about my pelvic floor, and I know all these things, and how is it just right now that — why didn’t I know about any of these things that are happening?

0:09:17

That showed me oh, if I had been sitting in intergenerational circles for my whole life or if I had been sitting around a room with my aunts who each had three children and we were actually together, then this wouldn’t be so strange. It wouldn’t be so weird. It would be more — it’s not that it would make it easy, it would just be more congruous.

Amanda Testa: I love that word, congruous. I can feel that. Even just the physical closeness of a lot of experienced, wise people to help you, people that have been through the experience that can talk about it and feel comfortable talking about it, right? I think that’s one of the reasons — when I first started this podcast, was to talk about things that feel hard to talk about because these conversations are so important and I know in the way I grew up it was very — a lot of things weren’t talked about, let’s just say. 

0:10:08

And so, even though there was, maybe, the people around me, they weren’t sharing the information, necessarily. Yeah, so making it kind of a gift [Laughs] to pass along your wisdom. It really is, yeah. 

So I’m wondering too, you know, when it comes to — I’m just thinking of the social atrophy that you mentioned and the realness of that, and I’m wondering, maybe, if you could share more about that, like, what that looks like for people, if that feels okay.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Mm-hmm. Well, I think I’m just trying to name something that I’m experiencing and that I notice other people experiencing and help people understand, because the nervous system is really my teacher. That sometimes people wonder well, why would I make a choice that was bad for me, right? Because within the nervous system world, we have a principle that is what we are doing is in service of higher organization. 

0:11:03

That’s just kind of an overall principle when it comes to healing, especially in the human potential movement, that any attempts that we would make, any action, any habits would be because our system is trying to reorganize, but we can get fooled just like people go back into abusive relationships or choose the same kind of pattern, we can think that familiarity is the thing that’s advantageous for us. And so, we can adapt to things that aren’t, ultimately, advantageous because we get used to them, and then we don’t remember what it feels like to feel connected or to feel safe or to feel connected touch.

You know, yesterday, my daughter had a track meet, and I was sitting in the bleachers, and there was a little girl (she was four years old), and she had the cutest little high-pitched voice. It was such a strange interaction because it brought into relief so many different things at the same time. 

0:12:03

I was talking to her a little bit, and she was coming closer and closer, and her mom was telling her to get away from me, but her mom was trying to protect me because she thought I would want personal space. I don’t even think it was COVID-related. I think it was just like don’t go near this lady you don’t know, but I was telling both of them, “No, it’s fine. I like it.” She was talking to me, and she had her little hand on my knee just, you know, being familiar and I was loving it, but her mom was just like, “Come back over here.” 

Then I said, you know, “Oh, what songs do you like,” and she named a song that I had never heard of, and then I realized wow, we are in such a weird time because twenty years ago, every four-year-old’s gonna know the range of a few songs, right? You’re gonna know “Twinkle, Twinkle.” You’re gonna know “Itsy Bitsy Spider.” You’re gonna know “The Sesame Street Theme” song. You’re, maybe, gonna know The Muppets. You’re gonna know some Disney songs, but I realized that she and I actually didn’t have any of those things in common. 

0:13:04

I said that to her mom, and her mom was like, “Yes, because now someone just makes a TikTok or a YouTube song and that becomes the most popular one, and so, what’s popular is only popular within that age range or someone who has a child at that age.” To me, it was a kind of shocking and strange moment because that would be something that was so easy to normally connect around. Like, let’s sing a song together. What do you like to sing? There wasn’t even — I would have had to teach her a song. I mean, we did sing “Itsy Bitsy Spider” together, but that doesn’t take very long, so I was trying to build our repertoire.

So I think your original question was about social atrophy, and what I would say is, like, you know, at the end of The Call of The Wild which I turned that book in in October of 2020, so we were only six months into the pandemic, and my plea in that was to remember how to belong to each other and to really remember that touch and proximity is a basic human need, and we were already a touch-starved culture before this happened. 

0:14:10

We were already this obsession that people have with personal space, and this obsession — I mean, right now, it’s so fashionable to defend your introversion and defend that you’re a highly-sensitive person and defend all of your neurodiversity. Who’s even neurotypical? Is anyone neurotypical anymore with the diversity of diagnoses? I understand why those labels are helpful and can help people find resources that they need but recently I’ve just seen people — it’s like every next person. Ten years ago, it was bipolar II. Now, the fashionable diagnosis is ADHD for adults. I’m like has anyone done, like, a chart correlation of the rise of social media with ADHD ‘cause I’m pretty sure we’re mostly all gonna check those boxes if we’re living within that milieu.

0:15:02

Amanda Testa: Definitely. Yeah.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: I just want people to, number one, understand that exhaustion and reluctance and falling back into the inertia of our bubble is a normal reaction to what we’ve all been through, and it might not be the most functional or adaptive. And so, we need to be stretching ourselves so that it isn’t so exhausting to be around other people and that we realize that we really need each other.

Amanda Testa: We really do, and I think that piece of the belonging to one another touches me in a deep way, ‘cause that’s what I feel I know I need but also know that it’s harder to get in these days, it feels like. And so, I saw something in your email earlier today that I really loved about making ourselves community-worthy, and I think this kind of goes hand-in-hand with that. Why do we stretch ourselves to feel like we can get that need met or be able to, and I’m wondering what you might share about that.

0:16:00

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Yes, so I don’t pretend to know what community means. I think we’ve used that word really loosely as a dominant North American culture, and now we have these things like an online community. I don’t actually think you can have a community online because when shit hits the fan, sure, you can write somebody, but they’re not gonna come over and pick you up off the floor and take you to the ER. They’re not gonna be your emergency contact, right? I’m not discounting it. I mean, I run online forums that are definitely helpful especially with sexuality, a topic that people feel very inhibited to talk about, generally, in person. It’s a great intermediary step.

So that to say, I’m an apprentice at best, although there’s sort of nothing to apprentice, so I don’t know if you can be an apprentice without actually apprenticing. I mean, I’m apprenticing the absence of it, perhaps. What I meant by becoming community worthy — a few years ago — I grew up very secular, so I grew up going to different kinds of churches, really, all on own accord. 

0:17:05

I would beg my parents to go to church, and then I would go with other families. A couple of years ago, my daughter was singing in the choir at church, and so, I liked the music and I thought okay, it was Presbyterian so it’s kind of like all right, that’s the vanilla. We’re not talking anything extreme. So I would go to the church service. It would start with the music, and then it would go onto the sermon, and at the sermon, the children would leave and go to Sunday School which Cece, my daughter, wanted to go to. I would always try to stay for the sermon but, inevitably, like 15 minutes in, something really annoying and offensive would happen, and then I would just be like ugh! It just ruined it! Can’t we just focus on the just whatever? 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: But one of the sermons was about what is church. Like, what actually is church, and that church is the people who are in it. And so, you can’t just rail about the church because, basically, you’re expecting other people to make the church because you actually aren’t being the church yourself. 

0:18:08

That really hit home, ‘cause I was like that’s a totally fair point, and I’d have to really give myself over to this and decide, not just come here and comment on how other people are — I mean, I wasn’t really commenting on the other people, per se, but nothing is perfect. We’re all humans. So I would have to become a part of the imperfect thing so that I could benefit from the things that are not imperfect which is the routine and commitment of being somewhere every week. That’s an amazing thing to have, to know that you don’t even have to think. Every Sunday or every Friday or whatever your deal is, that you just know you’re gonna be at that place. We don’t have many of those things in our white, North-American overculture. We have to create those things now.

0:18:55

So that’s what I meant is if I felt like okay, that was a real wake up call, a sermon that hit me that was like this is true. Church is me. I make the church if I come here, and I decide how I am here, but I would have to opt in to that. Well, I don’t have any answers to it but community worthy is — and none of it is easy because, you know, I’m a person who I love children, love women, love birth, love all of it, and I’m a single mom, so if I wanna go take care of one of my friends postpartum, it’s so hard for me to do. I just canceled a trip two weeks ago that I’d made to go take care of a friend postpartum, and my daughter wasn’t doing well, and I’m like I can’t leave my own child to go take care of someone else. That’s messed up. It sucks. It totally sucks because I have the best of intentions, and it feels like oh, well, I’m just choosing my own life, but it’s actually just what has to be. I was ready, you know, to take the week off and buy the ticket and do all of the things.

0:20:02

So we’re in cultural purgatory, and it’s gonna last. It’s not like we’re gonna solve this in one generation. What we’re doing now is, like, can we put the fragments of things so that maybe a couple of generations from now there’s a semblance of something that feels like community. And so, I think it’s really important to acknowledge that, too, that it’s not a personal error or we’re not doing something wrong if we can’t do it right. 

For me, I have a standing dinner with a family once a week. So every Thursday, for the last year and a half, I’ve eaten dinner with the same family, and it doesn’t matter if my daughter has a test the next day. The only thing that makes us miss it is if we’re out of town, but I even plan my travel around that. I think about it like oh, that’s Thursday. So it’s that important to keep that as an anchor for everything else, and that’s just one thing that I’ve done that feels like it’s community worthy. Sometimes, we invite other people, but we know that that’s happening.

0:21:08

Amanda Testa: That weekly anchor feels like a beautiful ritual to connect to and show up for on a regular basis. It’s interesting ‘cause as you say that I’m just remembering I grew up in a very religious home. You know, we’re Baptists, and there were so many things all the time, right? There was Wednesday night, there was choir, there was church, there was Sunday school, there was all the things, a million things, and, also, a lot of it was maybe messaging that I didn’t 100% resonate with, so then I kind of left that behind in some ways. But remembering, too, there is a very strong community around it, right? Something happens, people are gonna be there. They will bring you food, and they’ll be there in a lot of ways. And so, I feel like in some ways you’re saying that kind of individual piece where people kind of want their personal space and whatnot, but then realizing that’s not really the best thing all the time either, right? We need that community of people in whatever way you can find that, but I think it’s just the showing up consistently and being okay with it being F-ed up a lot of times or not perfect, and the hardness of wanting things to be different in some ways or change to be different or just the challenge of that and sitting with the difficulty of knowing yeah, we can make these small steps, but it’s not gonna, probably make huge differences right away in our generation, right? It’s showing up for it again and again.

0:22:25

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Yeah, I call it the best of the worst choices. I feel like we live in the land of the best of the worst choices where everything is a concession in some way, and that’s very exhausting. It’s very exhausting to feel like you’re weighing out all of these things all the time. It’s a consequence and an inheritance of many things, but I think that one really important thing is to evaluate how we view freedom and what the consequences of that view of freedom are. And so, on a daily basis, that can be something that we’re recognizing in ourselves as we make choices and we make rituals and we move towards community because committing to something, some people feel that that takes away their freedom, you know? Well what if I don’t like or or what if — all these things. It doesn’t mean you just commit and close your eyes and jump off a cliff or something, you’re committing to something that has qualities in it that are important.

0:23:27

But yeah, what does it mean to live secularly? There were so many shifts and make-a-rounds. I think the yoga studio was really serving the function of church, community center, spiritual teaching, collective movement, and then, now, when we couldn’t do those things together (or we couldn’t), and how is that gonna be going forward? Even the thing of — I mean, you know, you just said your husband works next to you. I think for some people, though, it was like, “Oh, my god, working at home. It’s the best thing ever. It’s freedom. I can work anywhere in the world.” Yes, and what’s on the flip side of that? 

0:24:05

For me, I was already working online for a couple of years before the pandemic. I moved from San Diego to New York six months before the pandemic, specifically, for that reason. I was, like, going crazy just having all of the contact that I had online and then parenting, and I really wanted to be around more strangers and be on the street and have more contacts.

So, again, it’s just like we’ve been living in a way as if we can travel anywhere when we want to, that money is unlimited, that resources in general are unlimited, and there are certain times of our lives, especially when there’s a sense of weakness which happens when we’re postpartum, that that really shows us what it is. Or something like the pandemic that — you know, we thought we were free ‘cause we could live anywhere we wanted in the country, and then oh, no, yeah, we’re living anywhere we want, but everyone’s returning to live near their family or to live near their lover or whatever because we don’t have kinship networks that are outside of that.

0:25:07

Amanda Testa: Yes, I’m just nodding like yeah, we don’t, and it’s really sad to me in so many ways. Kind of on this note is having that need for the collective community and also being around others that can help you in regulating your own nervous system. Like, being around people that can just offer that for one another and attuning to one another and helping one another and how, maybe, it’s become a little — not — the lack of togetherness, all it’s bringing. But also for myself, too, knowing that one of the beautiful things, I feel like, for a lot of this work that I’ve done around my own healing and just activating my own inner power, so to speak, is just feeling like well, I have more capacity to deal with what comes my way, and I can more easily deal with the hard difficulties that it feels like. I notice so much more now than I used to. Maybe, before, I could be in a social situation and not really be as aware of what it felt like in my nervous system, and now, I realize wow, this used to feel so different because there’s a part of me that might still be afraid or this person just kissed me and hugged me and my body’s not used to that, right? 

0:26:10

Just even noticing and naming, like, okay, this feels weird, and that’s normal. That’s gonna be part of the process of coming back to it, just allowing it in ways that feel doable until you can expand your capacity for more and go back to hugging and kissing and feeling good about it, right?

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Definitely. Yeah, small doses. I was just thinking about, today, how tempting it is for all of us to want to jump to the thing that we want to be or act as if we are a certain way, ‘cause I’m teaching a class on attachment next week, and everyone’s into attachment theory, and they’re like oh, secure attachment, it’s like The Holy Grail. The worst thing that you can do is pretend you’re securely attached when you don’t feel that way at all, and the best thing that you can do is really know yourself and acknowledge and be able to not feel ashamed of the way that you feel or behave and be able to translate that. Then that itself leads you toward — that is secure attachment. So it’s really important that we acknowledge where we are without concretizing it, without deciding that’s who we are. Oh, I just don’t like touch.

0:27:20

Now that consent has become a whole industry with a whole bunch of associations attached to it there’s a lot of crustiness around the way to communicate. For instance, that every time you are gonna hug somebody that you should ask them or that you’re acting out of consent and forgetting that we have languages other than speech. Especially for children, it troubles me to see how much we want them to be verbal and communicate with them through words when, really, their first language is touch, their first language is other than words. And so, it’s putting a lot of pressure on them to continually articulate something. Even pleases and thank-yous sometimes. I’m like this is the tyranny of please and thank you. 

0:28:13

I’m all about manners, and I think manners are underrated, and I don’t think that in and of itself is manners or having to ask your own child to touch them or insisting on greetings and insisting on hellos and goodbyes. There is a reason why we have some of those, what some people consider formality or outdated etiquette. I think there’s actually a reason for some of those and it has to do with secure attachment. It has to do with boundaries. It has to do with how you orient to space and how you orient to other individuals in the culture, and I think that that’s really important.

Amanda Testa: Definitely. Yeah, I love how one of my teachers, Rachael Maddox, talks kind of about the pollinator and how, you know, we’re really meant to mix and mingle and be in and out and have that feeling that we feel good in. Like, finding the rhythm that feels right and going to fill up in what’s delicious and good and reveling in all that. I think that there is such goodness in being together, and I love the pleasure of that. Feeling into what’s good about it is something that I have been, in my own experience even recently, feeling that need to be in togetherness and also, like you say, having that accountability. Like, well, I’m willing to show up in this way on a regular basis. I’m going to do that, and I’m going to invite whoever wants to be there with me and, you know, continue from there. That feels very good to sit with.

0:29:40

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Yeah, I mean, we can’t heal without being able to feel pleasure, and I think the word pleasure kicks off so many different meanings and associations especially in the North American dominant overculture where suffering is a scarlet letter that — or maybe it’s not a scarlet letter, it’s a varsity letter that we want higher and higher levels of what we’ve actually been through. That’s kind of evolved in a lot of different directions, but either way, it’s important. I think it’s really mixed like you said at the beginning of this conversation. It’s a both and because we can be finding pleasure at the same time something’s feeling very uncomfortable, and I think that there’s no way around that for the next bit of time and, probably for a while because so many people have had so many different experiences through these two years. 

0:30:37

What I’m hoping for is some spaces that emerge (and I’m trying to create them myself) where we really talk about that because I think there’s gonna be, and already is, a desire to just, like, be done with it ‘cause it feels like the only topic on the agenda and just like ugh, I’m so tired of talking about this, but I don’t know that we’re talking about who we were before and who we are now. 

0:31:01

I don’t know that we’re talking about what we’ve learned as a result of and how we want to proceed forward informed by what we’ve just been through. That feels extremely important to me. What are the things that you are taking a stand for? Not in that weird way of, like, you gotta take a stand, but what are the things that have shifted for you internally that are new compasses as a result of what you’ve been through and what we’ve all been through.

Amanda Testa: I think that is interesting, ‘cause I was talking to someone the other day, and that conversation of oh, I just want things to be done. I’m over it. And also, yes, but it will never be back the way it was. So also allowing the grief process and allowing — for me, I know I just recently did this intense grief ritual around all that’s been lost, and that felt important to recognize and name too because there’s a lot that’s different and in some ways good, right? But also, in some ways hard. And so, even if it now feels like people are flaky around making plans because we all have challenges in our nervous systems around being together, if it feels like it’s hard to, I don’t know, find the community in the way you want — I love that you have to be the church yourself. 

0:32:10

You have to create that in some way that feels good to you, and talking about it, right? Yeah.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Yeah, I think we need spaces, for sure, to grieve. There’s a lot to grieve on so many levels for everyone, for our children (if we have children), for the loss of relationships. I mean, so many of my friendships didn’t make it through the pandemic for me, for the life that I was trying to — I moved to New York to create community, and that just didn’t — everyone scattered and yeah, so many futures that we thought maybe we were going in a direction, and those directions aren’t possible anymore. 

For me, I am abstaining from travel, pretty much. I have to go to Brazil or, at least, I feel like that I do ‘cause my daughter’s father lives there and my boyfriend also lives there, and he doesn’t have a U.S. visa, but as far as somewhere like Hawaii, I just feel that, for me, this experience showed me what the planet is doing with less air travel and less movement altogether. 

0:33:18

To me, that feels like a directive. As I was saying earlier, it feels like a limit. It feels like something I was shown, and those dreams of showing my daughter this place or that place, that those might just have to live in the realm of dreams of something that used to be possible and used to be coherent and isn’t anymore. So that’s something that I’m personally sitting with and, you know, of course my parents the other day were like, “Let’s do a family reunion in Hawaii,” and I was like, “I don’t think I’m going to Hawaii anymore. I don’t think that –,” and they’re like, “Why, COVID?” And I’m like, “No, ‘cause of the history of colonialism and tourism and what tourism does.” My mom’s like, “You have to go there. They survive on tourism,” and I’m like, “No, at some point you have to pull the plug.” 

0:34:03

At some point we have to disengage from these luxuries and systems. If not now, when? It’s hard to know ‘cause it’s like everything. Oh, does me not having single-use plastic really help when airlines serve water in plastic cups and each person takes three? We’re just straddling these individual collective questions in so many ways, but I do think it’s important to talk about, otherwise the appetite for amnesia is just too strong.

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm, yeah, and amnesia is an easy thing for people to connect to, and also that what difference will it make if I do this, but it makes a huge difference. I even think that’s like healing ourselves and going through our own, I guess, flourishing after going through challenging experiences or finding that post-traumatic growth. There is such beauty in doing that, individually, and also in how that serves the collective in doing that work for yourself too.

0:35:05

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Right.

Amanda Testa: ‘Cause I think the small pieces of what we do make a huge difference even though it might not seem like it.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: Like if I’m using my cloth bag but the airlines are using 15,000 tons of plastic, that’s okay because there’s a little bit less, right? Yeah, it’s interesting to think of. I’d love to know, too — I so value the work you do in the world and how you support women and people that are looking for ways to navigate all these things, and really working with our nervous systems to do that, and having all these important conversations. So I would love if you share a little bit more about what’s upcoming for you, how people can connect with you, and get support in that way too.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Yeah, so, you know, I kind of put everything on the chopping block after last year when my Call of The Wild came out and it was kind of like well, knowing everything that I know now about the world and about some common languages that we gained — two years ago people didn’t have a racialized common language nationally. 

0:36:04

So now that we have more of a common racialized language, what’s really relevant, and I still do think — well, you know, ‘cause like everyone I’ve had my own existential crises. I doubt anyone who’s been through the last two years has not. In the course Activate Your Inner Jaguar: Real World Understanding of Your Nervous System, it makes it through the chopping block because I still do feel that it is essential, no matter if we’re doing personal or collective work, that we know what’s happening with our nervous system because our nervous system is pretty much dictating most of what we’re saying and doing and communicating to other people whether we know it or not.

So I’m teaching that course three times this year and then every October I teach a sex edition. So it’s a longer-form, three-month course that specifically works on boundaries. But the nervous system material is really foundational for the sexuality work. So some people are like I just want to get to the sexuality stuff, understood, and I used to teach more of that  just straight off the bat, but I found that because it’s just such a charged topic for almost all of us, it’s really helpful to have those baseline skills. 

0:37:11

Nervous system maybe doesn’t sound so sexy, although I think it does, but, you know, that’s ‘cause I nerd out on this stuff. It really is what makes great sex. The tools for understanding how to communicate about what’s happening inside of you. When what you’re feeling is a sensation, when it’s an emotion, when it’s an image that you have, when it’s just a thought, knowing that and being able to sort it and also knowing how to take your energy up or take it down, those are foundational skills for how you can have great sex with anyone. So it’s crucial.

So yeah, I’m teaching that. I’m teaching Mother Circle. I teach Mother Circle once a year, and this year, I’m gonna train people to facilitate Mother Circles. That’s what I can think of. When the pandemic began on March 15th, that April I taught a Jaguar in the quarantine. I called it Jaguar in the Time of Cholera, and it was kind of a special addition with a sliding scale so you could pay $99, and we had 2 classes a week, and I brought in guest teachers. 

0:38:14

So I’m gonna do kind of a revival of that where I have guest teachers and they’re gonna be more in the chrone direction, ‘cause I do feel like it’s also time to be calling in the inner-generational wisdom, especially with social media dominating so much and generations having just social media as a reference which is so youth-directed. So yeah, then, you know, I’ve got my usual podcast, but I’m trying to take much better care of myself which really just means being an adequate judge of what I can actually do because I’m full of fire and full of creative ideas that are mostly really good ones, and I’m a terrible judge of how much I can actually really do so I say yes to a ton of things, and then all of a sudden I have to say no to a lot of things because it’s just too many things.

0:39:04

I’m 47, and I started having a lot of hot flashes last year, and then found out that they weren’t menopause, that it was just stress. So I was frying my own nervous system in the process of educating other people and running a business and being a single parent. I’m committed to my own nervous system and I feel that’s a feminine way of running a business and being transparent about that because if I were just to, you know, not talk about that at all and keep my editorial calendar and keep it going, that’s not exactly what I’m teaching people which is that there’s phases of life and there’s phases of life that we don’t expect, and there’s ones that we can expect. 

I had a really great — I taught with Peter Levine who’s the founder of Somatic Experiencing, and there was about 20 women on the call who were assistants, and they were all in their 40s and 50s and 60s. 

0:40:01

I started having hot flashes repetitively while I was teaching, and it was so cool ‘cause they were all private messaging me going, like, “You got this!” “Ride that wave!” “Go ahead and pause,” and giving me all this hot flash advice. But I’d never watched anyone have a hot flash. I mean, my mom once said she was getting hot, but I was kind of like she’s just exaggerating. I felt like the guy on broadcast news, that guy that just sweats all the time. My face was bright red. So I was kind of getting eldered by all of these women who were assistants saying, “Yeah, ride the wave. You know the wave metaphor, well here it comes! Okay, let yourself come all the way down,” and really modeling that in real time for the people who were on the call, too, that I’m not just gonna push through this and act like it’s not happening and act as if I’m totally normal right now even though you can obviously see that I’m not.

Amanda Testa: I love that. Normalizing that we have to honor what our bodies are experiencing, and that’s kind of culturally, like you say, especially here in the US and our culture of white supremacist extraction, do you give beyond your means, give it all away, just give yourself ‘til thre’s nothing left. 

0:41:11

I see that a lot with women, specifically, and also, in their businesses, I see so many burnt out, overwhelmed, just exhausted, depleted people because, I think, we haven’t been taught to listen to that. We’ve just been taught to override it, and I love that you normalize that and talk about it and honor it. So yeah. [Laughs] I’m 48, and the hot flashes are not fun. I’ve just had a few, but now I know why my mom would open the freezer and stick her head in there. She’s like, “Oh, my god. I’m having a flash!” and go right to the freezer. 

Kimberly Ann Johnson: For me, they’re not bad. It’s just one of those experiences where your body is doing something. Now I can tell what sets one in motion ‘cause it is stress for me so I can tell, but it was a very specific thing. 

0:42:00

So it wasn’t pain or discomfort, it was more surprise and a little bit of embarrassment that it was happening so visibly, but also, I’m super grateful because there’s no reason to have hot flashes like that. I mean, yes, there is a reason. The reason is I have an incredibly adept radar, at the moment, to tell me so that I — my body is just telling me in real time, “Don’t have this conversation. Don’t commit to this thing. Don’t do this.” And so, for me, I know my experience is — and I don’t know what your hot flashes are like, but I feel that my impression, there’s so much negativity about menopause out there, and it’s easy to take on when it doesn’t have to be like that. There’s a reason that it’s happening. Just like postpartum, our system is more sensitive, and in a yin time, we need to be more internal. I’ve described it as I feel somewhat like an invertebrate right now and I need a shell. 

0:43:03

That’s very much the postpartum time too. I’m being remade, and there’s a new thing happening. There’s so much incentive to override and almost no incentive to do the opposite, almost no incentive to stop. It doesn’t feed your ego, it doesn’t feed your pocketbook, none of it. So it’s important that we claim that for ourselves, and I did that so much politically throughout my life. I read bell hooks in my late teens and it was all about the oppositional gaze, and so, that was so clear to me, and it was very clear to me, also, as a woman, like, I’m not letting mainstream media determine how I think I should look about my body, but this is another level of oppositional gaze to say and I’m also not gonna take on what that visibility means or what I’ve internalized as success at a different phase. There’s a big part of me that feels like maybe the most successful thing I could do right now is become inconsequential. 

0:44:04

And so, I’m pondering that, but at the moment I have six people that I employ and a lot of other considerations like most people do. Like I said, we’re in purgatory. There’s no easy choice. There’s no easy opt-out. We have to figure it out a little bit at a time and find the sanctuaries where we really feel that secure, resonant community, and then remember that feeling tone and imprint it, and do our best to put out those little signals.

Amanda Testa: Yep. So beautiful. I love that. Thank you. Yeah, and I’m wondering is there any question that you wish that I’d asked that I didn’t ask or any other thoughts or anything else you want to share? 

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Well, I know that a lot of people listen to your podcast based on sexuality, and so, I think that one thing I wish that people would remember more than it seems that they do or, at least, the people that I work with, is that our sexuality isn’t separate from everything else that’s happening in our life, our relationship, and the world. 

0:45:06

So this idea that what empowered sexuality is is whatever one’s version of that — I mean, the most common version I see of it is that you wear red or black lacy lingerie and maybe you do sex magic rituals and you feel comfortable girating in front of your Instagram camera, and that is, in and of itself, expressive for you. 

I would expect at this point of where we are culturally, that most of us would need a lot more holding and contact at a lower level of intensity before getting to a higher level of intensity that felt like that was going to be nourishing over time. It’s not because I come from a moralistic place about it because I think that, eventually, we all want to be able to create — healthy sexuality is different for every person, what that is for each person, but I see a lot of people — and I’ve had the experience, too, in the past where you haven’t dated for a while and then you go on a date and all of a sudden you start to feel like well, I like this person well enough. 

0:46:24

This might be the only chance I have. Okay, I’m going to give this guy a blowjob because, like, at least there’s contact and at least I can do it right now. You’re more likely to end up in a scenario afterwards where you’re like oh, maybe I went a little bit beyond what I wish that I would because I just wanted it so bad which is totally normal. The same goes for phase of life. I don’t think it’s prescriptive. When I talk about where I’m at with my sexuality right now, which is that I feel like the automatic arousal that used to happen for me most of the time feels a little bit farther away. Not all the time, but some of the time. then people go well, is that always true for perimenopause? 

0:47:05

No, not at all. I mean, there are some people who are in sexless marriages for 20 years and hit perimenopause and are, like, freaking off the roof with their arousal and desire and availability and creativity and exploration. There’s no prescription. I think that it’s one of the beauties of the human experience. 

Since I’m in a female body, for me, the female and feminine experience that I particularly have and that I notice in the people that I work with who are primarily female bodies who identify as women is that our spiritual path and our sexual path tend to be running paralell with each other. And so, I think knowing that we can have many sexual selves and we can have many incarnations of who we are sexually — not just oh, there’s the sort of what we might consider an immature view of sexuality which is, you know, where you — I don’t know Immature might not be the right word, but the norm in a view of sexuality that’s now changing but was there for quite a long time which is that, like, what makes you good at sex, how people think they can be good at sex, that we would even be beyond that.

0:48:21

I have so many people that come to me, and they want me to make them or help them want sex, but the reason they don’t want it is because of the person they’re with or because of some other thing that’s happening in their life. I’m not being very clear right now, but what I’m trying to say is that so many people want to be a multi-orgasmic, tantric goddess. Awesome, yes, and there’s usually a lot of steps — the person that you’re gonna have sex with actually influences being a multi-orgasmic, tantric goddess. Your health actually influences that. Where you are in your motherhood journey influences that. Sometimes people don’t realize oh, the reason that I’m pushing my partner away is actually ‘cause I’m afraid of getting pregnant. It seems obvious, but it doesn’t come to the conscious surface because the thing has become such a contentious thing that that’s what becomes the focus.

0:49:20

So I don’t know if maybe you can make sense out of what I’m saying.

Amanda Testa: Yes.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Especially coming out of the pandemic, sex involves touch, it involves proximity, it involves trust. We don’t have a lot of practice at negotiating those things, verbally or otherwise. And so, I want people to recognize that they might want to protract and stretch out some of these qualities that are involved in sex — companionship, desire, proximity, touch, arousal. I would just imagine that, like the grieving, there’s more of that being-ness that could infuse our encounters.

Amanda Testa: Very much so. You know, I like how you said everyone wants to be the multi-orgasmic, tantric goddess or whatever, but yet there’s a lot that has to happen before that. 

0:50:11

A lot of people are like, well, I want this, but, yes, there’s the unsexy part that has to happen first, right? 

Kimberly Ann Johnson: And there’s a lot of unsexy stuff that happens along the way. Even when you are that, right?

Amanda Testa: Exactly!

Kimberly Ann Johnson: That’s the whole thing is people think oh, good sex means you’re just having a good time all the time and it’s just pleasure, pleasure, pleasure and it’s just more, more, more, and that’s not really what good sex is.

Amanda Testa: Right.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: It is that some of the time, but good sex is good life. Life is big and huge and things happen, and our bodies change, and we have injuries, and people hurt our feelings. There’s just so many things, and they come up unexpectedly. I just taught that class on lingerie and the nervous system, and I told this story about this time that I asked one of my boyfriends to buy me lingerie which is, like, no one had ever bought me some, and I wanted him to buy it for me, and I told him what I wanted. 

0:51:02

Then we went to a hotel, and the box of lingerie was on the bed, and it was everything I asked for. Then I went in the bathroom and I put it on, and I came out, and I just had a total shame wave come over me, and all of a sudden I felt like it was ridiculous. I felt like I looked ridiculous, and I felt like it was ridiculous, and then I started to shake. He’s looking, and then I’m feeling awful ‘cause I asked for this, and he did exactly what I asked, and I should be so grateful, but I’m actually feeling completely confused. That wasn’t, like, 25 years ago, but that was a long way along my path of many very sexually expressed and healthy attitudes. We’re not robots. We’re very complex, amazing creatures who have multiple responses, and there can be all kinds of things that arise. 

That’s what I want people to understand about trauma, too. We don’t just heal our trauma and then we check the box and we’re just all good because that’s the problem with trauma becoming, also, a concretized industry. 

0:52:04

It’s just a part of being alive, and if we expect that it’s not, then we start racking up the reasons why we need to be medicated or we need therapy or we need all these things when, actually, we just need a deeper, wider net of understanding of what it actually means to just be totally alive.

Amanda Testa: Yes, the aliveness piece encompasses so much of it. It’s like yes, we have all these different aspects, and being able to kind of understand and flow with the way they come in and out. There’s gonna be pain, there’s gonna be conflict, there’s going to be challenges, there’s going to be grief, and it can all be encompassed. There’s going to be joy, there’s going to be pleasure, and there’s a place for it all, and kind of navigating through it all moment-to-moment knowing that we’re gonna have different experiences to the same thing. If it’s the exact same way it’s presented one time, you know, and you try to recreate it the same exact way, you’re gonna have a different experience. It’s just how we are, and there’s such beauty in knowing there’s never a destination to get to. 

0:53:09

It’s just like how can I enjoy more of all that’s available to me and be present to it in a way that feels accessible with it, that feels doable. [Laughs] I think that’s so key. Yeah, thank you. Oh, and I appreciate that too about, you know, it’s not what you think it looks like, right? it’s all the ways, and I know from my own experience. People who listen to the podcast know my husband had a stroke right before COVID. And so, that was a long cycle of just all kinds of things, and stress will totally deplete your so many things. It’s so hard to want to want to do things when you’re not feeling well. So it’s just understanding yeah, there’s a lot going on, and it’s okay if you are having a hard time with it, and there are ways to digest it and be in community and find ways to feel good and enjoy all the flavors of it that are available. Yeah, and I‘m excited to check out the book, too, ‘cause I loved your interviews with Stephen Jenkinson, and I’m excited to hear how those turn out as well.

0:54:07

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Awesome.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I just appreciate you and your time. Thank you for being here.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Thank you so much. Thank you for the invitation.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I’ll make sure to just share in the show notes where everyone can connect with you and digest all your lovely offerings if they so choose.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: That’s awesome. Thank you so much.

Amanda Testa: You’re welcome, and thank you, too, all for listening. Are there any last words or anything else that you feel like you’d like to share? I know we’re coming up on our time, so I want to honor that for you.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Well, I think it’s really helpful when any of us have the thought, “I bet I’m the only person who feels this way,” to just flip that and say, “I bet a lot of people are feeling this way.” I learned that when I had a breakup and my mind kept telling me that I bet my ex-boyfriend was doing way better than me, and I bet that he had a relationship already, and I bet he this. Then I just flipped the thought and said I bet he’s having a really hard time. It’s in his own way, but I bet he’s also having a really hard time. 

0:55:06

That, somehow, just sort of cut it, and I just noticed that we tend to think oh, I’m the only one experiencing this or that’s a big deal. Your husband had a stroke. That’s gnarly. Not that everyone else is experiencing that, but I bet other people are experiencing really hard things too. Not as a spiritual bypass or to give yourself a reason to not feel bad, but on a really visceral level, on a social nervous system level, that’s what tells us I still belong. I’m not an alien to this. I also have things that are — other people are also experiencing things. You know, I live in Southern California. It looks like everyone’s having a perfect time. People look great. Most people have not lost any income. Everyone’s still surfing and talking about it. It looks like I live in Disneyland, basically, so it can be harder to remember no, everyone’s going through stuff. 

0:56:07

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and it’s just connecting in that way. The belonging piece, right? Also, moving through it knowing you don’t have to be in it alone.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: Thank you.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Thank you.

Amanda Testa: All righty, well I will look forward to talking with you all next week, and thank you so much again, Kimberly for being here.

Kimberly Ann Johnson: Yeah, thank you. Nice to meet you.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa, and if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart-to-heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook at the Find Your Feminine Fire group, and if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends. 

0:57:03

Go to iTunes and give me a five-star rating and a rating and a raving review so I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Authentic Expression, Confidence, and Mindfulness through Music with Lisa Townsend

Authentic Expression, Confidence, and Mindfulness through Music with Lisa Townsend 

Feeling free in your self expression is a big piece of feeling embodied in your sensual self.   And finding ways to allow your authentic expression can look different than you may expect.

Join me as I talk with Lisa Townsend on freeing your authentic expression, learning how to use your voice for more confidence, and how music and singing can be used as mindfulness tools.  Being able to express ourselves and allow our authentic music — whatever form that might be — to come out is such a powerful and important confidence tool. 

Lisa Townsend is a board-certified music therapist and creative vocal coach who has a passion for creating space for exploration so you can speak and sing with courage and authenticity, use music as a tool to overcome any kind of limiting belief.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

In this episode you’ll discover

How to unlock vocal confidence so you can sing + speak with courage and authenticity.How to express yourself  without comparison to others.How singing and confidence are intertwined. How to overcome any limiting beliefs you have about the sound of your voice and your expression.Using singing as a tool to connect with your body.How conversations and singing are similar, and how to speak with more authority and authenticity.How to listen and trust your internal voice. How creative voice work can unlock your potential as a leader.and much more!

JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION ON THIS EPISODE AND MORE IN MY FREE FACEBOOK GROUP, FIND YOUR FEMININE FIRE HERE.

Lisa spent nearly 20 years helping clients use music as a tool for self-discovery. Her passion and expertise is in helping emerging leaders, executives, and CEOs overcome limiting beliefs around their voice, channel their creativity through singing, and learn to love and trust their voice so they can lead with confidence and authenticity. She breaks tradition in her teaching style because it didn’t fit her as a student.  She invites clients to UNLEARN what they think they know about their voice. By encouraging active listening and engaging thoughtful curiosity about what is happening, clients become the expert of their own voice.From building + leading teams and developing programs in nonprofits serving marginalized communities, to working at schools with youth using music for social change, she is steadfast in my belief that everyone is musical.

Find out more about Lisa and connect with her below!

Lisa Townsend Music website HERE.

Follow her on FB HERE

And find her on Instagram HERE.

If you liked this episode, please consider giving me a 5 Star Review on Apple Podcasts! It truly does help the podcast grow. 

Want more support in bringing your desires to life?  Schedule a confidential heart to heart with Amanda HERE.

EPISODE 202: Finding Confidence and Mindfulness Through Singing with Lisa Townsend

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex, love, and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex, love, and relationships, and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome!

Our voice is such a powerful tool, and being able to express ourselves and allow our authentic music — whatever form that might be — allowing it to come out is such a powerful and important tool, and I am so excited because today I’m talking with Lisa Townsend, and she is a board-certified music therapist and creative vocal coach. What I love about Lisa and her work is, really, she has such a passion for creating space for exploration so you can speak and sing with courage and authenticity, and really using music as a tool for inspiring leaders to really overcome any kind of limiting belief around their voice because our voice, there is sometimes — and I can share from my own experience in the past, like, really not liking the sound of my voice, not feeling like I could express myself in the way I wanted to. 

0:01:08

These are just normal things, I think, that we face in life, and so, I’m really excited to talk with Lisa today. I’ve been so passionate about the voice lately too because I have just been inspired to sing, and I’ve been taking singing lessons and just really diving into this topic, and I find it so fascinating. 

So, welcome! Thank you so much for being here, Lisa!

Lisa Townsend: Thank you for having  me! I love talking voice. I love people who just love using their voice in lots of different ways — podcasting, singing, so I’m thrilled to have the conversation. Thanks.

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm. Yes, and I just want to shout out something. I just went to an experience that Lisa hosted earlier this week, and it was so lovely. It was a soul singing session, and basically, we had these intentions, and then we sang them, and it was the most amazing meditation expression. It was so fun. So I just love, love, love what you’re doing, and I am excited to share you with the listeners!

Lisa Townsend: Thank you.

0:02:01

Amanda Testa: Yeah, I’d love to — you know, if you just wouldn’t mind letting me know and just sharing with the listeners a little bit of your journey and why singing, why working with the voice became such a passion for you.

Lisa Townsend: I would love to. So I grew up in western New York, and my maternal grandmother (who is 92, she just turned 92), she was a singer in the family. We would play piano and she would teach me harmonies. We’d go to the theatre, and my dad was self-taught guitar and loved singing The Eagles and The Beatles. So I grew up around music in that way. I did choirs. I performed in church shows, you know, high school choir and theatre, and, well, I was trying to decide what I wanted to do. I had loved, loved, loved my high school choir director. He had just made such an impact. I loved the community that we built together through music, and it wasn’t about singing notes; it was about, you know, the collaborative, co-creative process of sharing our voices together and the beauty and magic that can happen when we do that.

0:03:01

So I thought I wanted to be, I don’t know, a choir director, (music education) and I went to college for music education at the same university he went to, and I, right away, knew it was not for me. It was one of those internal knowings. I did not actually wanna teach a classroom of music, you know, traditional music education. I, later, found out about the degree of music therapy, and without knowing too much about it, went down to visit a college in North Carolina where I learned that music therapy was more about using music as a tool for non-musical goals. What was exciting about that, to me, is that it was about experiential. You know, it wasn’t about reading rhythms and music theory and, you know, some of the elements of music that can be really intimidating and overwhelming. Honestly, I feel like I was guided to this for so many reasons.

So when I realized music didn’t have to be the end product, it was part of the journey, I mean, I was in. I got to see right away in the onsite clinic that they had, you know, what that looked like in a session, and then moved, later, into doing some family music classes. 

0:04:07

Again, for the experience of music, having families sing together, I realized so many of the mothers didn’t love singing. They were highly aware of their voice in class and maybe embarrassed about it even though all of them were embarrassed. It always took one brave soul and me to kind of lead the group and, really, overly encouraging them to be silly, and goofy, and playful, and there is a piece of that that we lose when we’re older. I’m kind of skipping some in between about how I’ve used music therapy in my work, but to jump from music is the tool, not the performance aspect, I saw it showing up. I thought if mamas aren’t singing with their babies, what is wrong with the world? [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Oh, my gosh, that’s so true! Well, it’s funny that you mention that ‘cause, you know, I grew up with music, too, and my dad loved music and live music. I think my parents went and saw Elvis when I was in the womb.

Lisa Townsend: Yes!

0:04:58

Amanda Testa: We were always listening to music, and I grew up playing piano for 12 years and guitar and banjo. Whatever instrument I wanted to play, my parents were very supportive. I’m very grateful for that privilege of being able to just explore and have fun with it. I was in choirs and things but never thought my voice was very good. I guess, when I got into college I played guitar and things like that. I love live music. You know, I was a Deadhead, and have went and seen so many live shows. I just love music so much, and it is such a great way of connecting and just dropping into a different realm. But I do recall when my daughter was born and singing to her I was like I don’t think I’ve sung in, like, 15 years. The first time I was, like, trying to sing, and it felt so weird, and I felt like every time I would sing I would cry. It was just a lot.

Lisa Townsend: Mm.

Amanda Testa: It’s interesting. So I can relate to those moms that are like, doo-doo. You know, singing the rappy songs or whatever it is. [Singing] Six little ducks went out to play. And you can even sing it even now.

Lisa Townsend: [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: It’s so funny to remember that, so thank you for triggering that memory in me.

0:05:58

Lisa Townsend: Thank you for that memory and sharing that because it speaks to that our voice is one of the most vulnerable things we have, and public speaking, whether we’re on Zoom, whether we’re on a stage, those are two different kinds of speaking, it’s still our voice. Then you add a tone or a note to a word and suddenly you’re singing — the most vulnerable thing you can do — and it can tap into emotions. I think we’re afraid of places we’ve not explored before which absolutely kind of takes us into the next part of the conversation which is — I’ll skip over a bit of this, but I’ll just drop in a tiny bit. The moms singing to their babies, I decided to play with the idea of what if I took parents’ words and set them to music, and I did a simple song. It’s not Adele singing a lullaby, [Laughs] it’s Lisa singing a lullaby, like, with a very accessible, simple sound that, then — ‘cause we all mimic our favorite artists. Well, fine, I’m not gonna give you anything that you can’t do. I’m gonna create things in a key that’s comfortable, at a tempo that’s slow, and you’re gonna give me the words and I’m just gonna, you know, set them to music for you. 

0:07:05

So there should be less vulnerability because it’s things you say to your children all the time or hopes and wishes you have for them. Maybe that takes away some of the vulnerability. I do still do some of that, but it’s more, kind of, word of mouth at this point.

Then fast forward to okay, when did people tell us that we couldn’t sing? Again, I’m coming at this from a singing lens today, but I think it’s highly applicable to speaking in the many ways we use our voice. When did that happen? I think that happens around age six or seven when we start to have a reflection about what others think about us. We can see ourselves in other people’s eyes, and can I talk to women who are mothers who are in their 30s and 40s who, maybe, need to be reminded that the stories that they tell themselves, maybe, aren’t their stories. 

0:07:58

Those are habits that we’ve created, and singing is a tool like anything else. Taking your voice to the gym, learning new techniques, exploring new scary places, and approaching it from a sense of play. What if? What if we did that? [Laughs]

I created a community choir where the sole purpose was we love harmonies, we love hearing and singing harmonies. Let’s create them. Simple, easy, beautiful. Our favorite hippie bands from the ‘60s, ‘70s, all those gorgeous — Eagles, CCR, Crosby, Stills, Nash — yeah, all those gorgeous rich harmonies. Can we create that? We’re just, like, normal people. Yes, we can, and here’s how, and it takes, you know, developing an ear for sound and knowing what your voice feels like, and so many things. So all of that exploration, without going into too much detail, is how I decided my ideal client is people who have been told they can’t or shouldn’t sing who are trying to be more dynamic and bold with their voice or, really, kind of want to but have some limitations whether that’s self-imposed or societally shared with them at some point, and they took it on as their own.

0:09:06

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I know for myself, I can remember a distinct moment of hearing that I wasn’t a good singer. You know, trying out for some solo in choir and not getting the parts or whatever. Right, those kinds of things, at the time, might not seem like a big deal, but they do stick with you. And so, I’m wondering, you know, what are some of the other limiting beliefs that you see around voice with people?

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, that’s a good question, and I do think you speak to — everyone has a moment. Everyone has a moment where they were told they were too much or not enough or you’re too quiet, you’re too loud, and whether or not that’s tied to singing, again, you and I are in the world where we’re sharing our voice, we’re sharing a message. Where does that stop us in a way that we didn’t realize that’s not our story, that’s actually not true. That was someone else’s truth, and we just may not have had the ability to kind of let it roll off our shoulders, and so, we carry that with us. 

0:10:04

I just made myself a voice note before we hopped on that said something like, “We all have the script; I can’t sing.” I don’t know if it’s, like, a script that is socially acceptable, that when someone says something about voice (even me, I’m a vocalist), I don’t always own that because I’m not on an American Idol stage. Again, that’s the narrative I’m trying to change.

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Right.

Lisa Townsend: It’s a practice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It doesn’t just happen overnight. Where does that come from? So I think, most often, it’s people either sincerely believing they don’t or can’t sing. “I don’t hit that note.” Well, I mean, there are a lot of questions around that note. Is it the right note for you? Are you pushing? Are you feeling vocal effort? Did you wake up? Did you not sleep well? Have you not had water in 24 hours? So many reasons why you can’t hit a note, and that actually doesn’t mean you can’t sing. 

0:10:58

It means we need to have an awareness about how we create sound, and then you can say, “Oh, I’m struggling with this. Is there anything I can do to adjust so that it’s more comfortable or that I find it more beautiful?” 

So, anyway, that script of, “Oh, I don’t sing,” or, “Oh, I sing, but only in the shower.”

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, “I can’t hit high notes.” Yeah, and we’re always comparing ourselves with our favorite artists who are — live music is it. That’s where you hear the raw voice. From a studio you are not gonna hear all the tricky spots that we all have in our voice, you know? It’s not a perfect art. It’s not perfect.

Amanda Testa: Right. You know, it is true. It’s just like looking in a magazine. It’s photoshopped. It’s not real. That’s not the reality, and that’s what happens when you’re listening to artists on the radio or listening to studio-perfected, auto-tuned, cleaned-up songs, no one’s gonna sound like that.

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: But I think, you know, what I love about it, though, is just how it can be a way to connect with your authentic voice and to listen to your voice, to express without judgment. 

0:12:00

I really think I love new ways to be able to express yourself confidently, because it shows up in every area of your life, right? Whether you’re singing or whether you’re speaking or whether you’re trying to connect with someone new or whether you’re trying to communicate your needs in the bedroom, right, it’s all so connected. And so, I’d love if you wouldn’t mind sharing a little bit more around things that you think are some tips that you can do around just appreciating your voice for what it is or not judging what comes out of your mouth. [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm. Life-long practices, but yes, there are some tips, and I think what you speak to, first, is awareness. Another piece of this is resonance, practice, and so, we can talk about those in depth. I was talking with a friend recently who reminded me that nothing gets you more comfortable with your own voice than in sharing it with others and getting comfortable hearing yourself. So we take ourselves to the gym, or we get outside and exercise to remind our muscles what to do. 

0:12:57

We need to do that, and voice work is one really fun way whether you have a coach, whether you hop on YouTube, honestly, whether you just sing along. A lot of people are even just uncomfortable, you know, singing out loud. I think a lot of us sing in our heads. You know, we have music on and we kind of sing it around in our heads, but physically using our instrument in a way that you can hear yourself is like taking yourself to the gym, and the more you do it, the more it becomes second nature. The more it becomes second nature, the less you second guess it, because you say, “Oh, that’s just me. I know how I sound.” 

I don’t know if you have a story around that around podcasting. I imagine that is something that happens for those of us who use our voice in a recorded way and hear it over and over again. Initially, the judgment is so high, and the more you kind of use that muscle, the less activated or triggered you might be by the sound. I don’t know if you have something to share around that, but I find that fascinating.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, well, it’s interesting because I think I can remember times in the past where I would listen to my voice on a recording and be like that does not sound like me, and also, just how my voice has changed over the years ‘cause I grew up in Georgia, and I don’t really have an accent anymore. I found this random mixtape back in the day — remember those? 

0:14:06

We used to make those, and my friend and I would send cassettes back and forth to each other, and I was listening to the voice, and I was like who is that! I was like oh, my god, that’s me! [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: Yes, but it is true. It’s, like, the judgment we have, but now, after using my voice for my work for so many years, I’m just very used to it and the sound of it, but I do know it can be really hard just ‘cause sometimes I’ll invite my students to record something and then listen back to it because that does affect your brain in different ways when you listen to your own voice, and it’s a really hard thing to do for a lot of people — like, really hard.

Lisa Townsend: Yes. Yeah, and one of the tips I use — or tools I use in one-on-one voice work, and also in my group work, has been asynchronous feedback meaning — actually, primarily, I have used Marco Polo which is a video message. I met one of my former clients last night for dinner, and she and her husband, we were playing, and I said, “You know, this has been such a good tool, but people really resist doing it because they can see themselves and hear themselves, and that is really tricky.” 

0:15:07

If you’re not having a conversation with someone and you’re just looking at yourself, I mean, in the world of social media, now, we’re doing all sorts of reels and things on Instagram. We’re going live, and you just see yourself, and it’s like you’re just in this echo chamber. It feels very funny until you practice it, and then you kind of say ope, I’m here. I’m in my zone. I’m gonna find my flow.

But, to your point, it takes a considerable amount of effort to see yourself or hear yourself over and over again and get through, kind of, those uncomfortable moments or ask, “Hey, I notice this about my voice,” and finding someone, a mentor, you can say, “You know, is there a way to change that or is that typical or is that something so noticeable that, actually, I should think about keeping it because it makes people recognize my voice in the crowd?” You know, there are some things about our voice that we think are uncomfortable for us to hear but make us notable in a crowd, and so, what we’re talking about here is frequent exposure, right? 

0:16:03

That can be through, like I said, just singing out loud. Make sure you hear yourself a little often. Be really playful with your sound and not afraid to try new things, which sounds silly, but think about singing your favorite song in a character voice, and just see what comes out. It’s like playing with your old mixtapes, as you described, and just hearing and saying, you know, that is my authentic voice. Now, I have an authentic voice, and what can I do with the tools that I have?

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm.

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, it’s very interesting to have just the awareness. Awareness is step one. Then you can think about being playful. Then you can take it deeper into okay, that’s my voice. I don’t sound sure of myself. Is that because the message I’m speaking doesn’t feel like it’s my truth? Am I saying something I want people to hear or something that they want to hear from me and maybe not my full, authentic truth? 

0:17:03

My word for that is resonance. Oh, you know, I might have to backpedal and say that’s not exactly what I meant, and say it again, and then you can feel resonance. It’s a way we sound with our voice. We can be resonant, and you can feel like it resonates.

Amanda Testa: I know we were talking about this earlier, but with that resonance and how you can communicate with more confidence through, you know, learning to love your voice and working with it in different ways like singing or just even playfully. I love how you mentioned the archetypes. You’re, like, just playing with a different voice, ‘cause it can be so powerful to use archetypal play to heal or to try something new, and I love that. 

And so, the other thing that you just mentioned which I think is important is kind of, like, the authentic voice. You mentioned this when we were talking before about phrasing and how you speak if you end your voice in certain ways. It’s, like, question mark versus a truth, and I’m wondering if that comes into play when you’re speaking that just now. 

0:18:02

Like, when I’m talking, is this really what I want to say or this is what I want to say or how you can speak to that a little more.

Lisa Townsend: That’s so fun to think about. Okay, so let’s think about how music and voice overlap. This is my zone of genius and zone of interest and play, but our subconscious will make our voice do things. You know, we just speak without thinking, oftentimes, right? Voice work calls us in to say okay, let’s have a little bit more awareness around this. This is a podcast episode. Am I a little nervous? Yes. Are you a familiar person? Yes, but now we’re being recorded. Now, I’m looking at myself on Zoom. Now, I’m with headphones that I haven’t used before. All of these things make me think okay, I know what I know, and yet, now, there’s a spotlight moment. 

So I like to think of things in — there are lots of different spotlight moments. That can be speaking up in a group program. That can be on an interview. The first awareness I had — I’ll walk you through my process today. I’m excited. I can feel the excitement in my chest. I am speaking high in my chest. 

0:19:02

I can feel it. As you were talking, I took a really low belly breath to recenter myself and kind of just reminded myself, “Lisa, you’re so excited. Connect a little deeper. Connect a little lower. You’ll find your flow again.” Not that I haven’t had it, but a different flow that then, to me, signals my body you can pace your language, your words, your phrases differently. You don’t have to tell everybody everything once. People can feel your excitement like this. It’s really hard to listen when things are just going like this. You can tell when someone’s not taking a deep breath and that they don’t speak between their — they don’t breathe between their sentences. [Inhales Deeply] [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It’s not a bad thing. It’s a practice, and it happens every time. So some of the tools I like to talk about that parallel speaking and breathing is — yes, phrasing. Thinking about any phrase is a beautiful arc. Like, not a mountain peak, just a hill. 

0:19:59

That we have peaks and valleys both with how many words we say in a phrase, the melody of our voice in one of those phrases, when we intentionally take breath, and, to your point, how we both begin and end a sentence. I’m using my hands a lot. It’s not a visual medium, podcasting, but, you know, you can see that I’m kind of giving you these hand gestures where if we’re, maybe, not checked in and not aware, we might end a sentence with our voice on an uptick. So did you know that we have so many different tools for our voice? Yes, we do. I mean, you give these little clues that sometimes you want to intentionally do that to capture attention, and other times you might end it on a high and people are like, “Wait, wait, you left me hanging. What do you need from me?” That takes their ears away from the message that you’re trying to convey. So knowing how those peaks and valleys in the melody of your voice, what intentional breaths can feel and look like to your audience and to you, and then how you’ve ending your sentence with intention so that your message is being heard as you intended. 

0:21:09

All really fun things to play with in singing and feel very weird to do just speaking.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, but I think, you know, like you say for so many of us in this day and age, we have to be visible, right? There’s just a lot more going on, a lot more video, a lot more just being visible and being able to, kind of, learn these different ways to express yourself, I think, is a really powerful thing. Also, being able to speak more courageously, you know, having more bravery and using your voice, I’m curious how you feel singing helps with that.

Lisa Townsend: I mean, isn’t singing the most brave thing you can do? [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Yeah!

Lisa Townsend: I mean, it is one of those — a simple fact, like, as we said earlier, singing is one of the most vulnerable things you can do, and it is a practice, and I don’t know how public speaking coaches or speaking coaches — I think they just do a lot of practice, right? 

0:22:06

A little more like an acting class where you might put on a character and you might play with all these sme tools, but in music it’s built in. It’s built in. I mean, A, they’re not your words so you’re less emotionally attached to them, maybe, in the moment. Later down the line you can actually play with those based on how you’re telling the story, but on the front end, not my words, I just get to play with the phrasing. I get to choose or hear where the music guides me to breathe. I know I can’t hit certain notes if I don’t have enough breath support. If I don’t have breath support, that means I’m not checking in with my core. Okay, I have to activate my core. I have to activate my shoulders. I have to know what a full breath feels like, and then I need to know where my voice is landing and how to adjust throughout. All of those things are so important for speaking and much more fun to play with in song because, again, it’s kind of a roadmap for your voice naturally. 

0:23:03

What we like to do in voice work is deconstruct a song. So not only do we listen to how the original artist did it, but then we kind of — I tell my clients it’s like naked singing because I just have the piano accompaniment. There’s a delay on Zoom, so I can’t always hear them full voice because of the sound delay, so it allows them in the safe space to play with their voice without their favorite artist and hear themselves. I say okay, “Well, did that feel good? Did you like the sound of it? Okay, if not, what can we do,” and we adjust and adapt, and then they hear their own voice and naturally find, “I have to breathe there. Oh, I’m hitting this! Okay, I need to make sure I’m supported,” and all of that becomes much more of a practice in a two-minute-and-thirty-second window because songs are short. [Laughs] So it gives you a real timestamp for practicing these both in the context of singing along, singing with a karaoke recording, or in our work which is kind of pulling it out of that original format and hearing your own voice in that way.

0:24:02

Amanda Testa: I love that, and it’s like building that muscle, and it sounds like it’s also such a powerful way to get into your body.

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm. The full body

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] You know, when you’re wanting to bring your feminine fire alive, being in your body and singing and just the resonance — just from a therapeutic perspective, would you feel okay sharing a little bit about just the beautiful power of our voice and vibration and how it supports us?

Lisa Townsend: Yes. I mean, thank you for asking that! I think I was just telling you before we recorded that I was listening to one of your episodes about pleasure, and I think one of my deepest wishes is for women to feel pleasure with their voice, and that’s individual, it’s situational. To your point about resonance or as we were speaking about resonance earlier, you know when something feels right or if it doesn’t, and I might take this into two different realms. It’s kind of like the external. This feels good as I’m saying it, the actual physical act and how I can feel it going out into the world. 

0:25:02

I can feel the energy of it. This all feels resonant. It feels good. It feels pleasurable. It feels right and authentic. It can also apply to your inner voice. Is this really what I mean? Is this truly how I wanted to say it in the voices in our head, maybe, like, our inner voice and our inner knowing resonance.

But from a physiological standpoint, you can put your hand on your chest. You can feel it now. If you’re talking in your chest voice, there is vibration, right? We often speak pretty low. We speak in this lower chest register, and we talk about this space as being warm. Yeah, I see you rubbing your — yeah, it’s warm. It’s low. It can feel really nice. Sometimes it can also, you know, take words out for a second and you can just hum. [Hums] Hmmm-hmmm. I don’t know if you can hear that with Zoom, but you can take that vibration and send it different places. We don’t think about this. 

0:25:58

In the context of our conversations so far, we’re talking about the practical aspects of using our voice, but not only when we say something that’s resonant, but when we place it in a part of our bodies that feels good, I mean, think about the benefits. You can feel that inner massage that’s happening, and there is a lot of work around toning and voicing. You probably talk about this a lot, embody work where creating that energy inside, igniting that feminine power is available to us, and our voice is one of the tools to do that.

Amanda Testa: Yes, it is. There’s four main holistic sex tools that I love to teach, and voice is one, sounding. I do feel like because all those vibrations are just the body actually — it’s a healing modality too with the vibration, right? It stimulates the vagus nerve and just helps to bring things online that might be offline. That’s what I love about singing and just, like, a meditation or anything like that, it just brings you so present in the moment, and that’s what I’ve been loving for my own singing journey lately is just being in the moment.

Lisa Townsend: Yes.

0:26:59

Amanda Testa: You know, I think that’s the beautiful thing about music. It makes you so present which is so important. When we get out of our bodies or we’re always up in our heads, I feel like in our day and age, the culture that we live in is very much like too-doo-loo-do-doo, what’s the next thing?

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: Like, taking the time to drop in and be with yourself in whatever way that feels good is so important. And, I mean, the other thing, too, that I think is so powerful about the work you do is just how you can translate what you’ve learned through singing and stretching your comfort zone and being brave is that when you go, then, to just to talk to someone, that feels a lot easier, right? It’s like when you train for a race, for example, when you do a lot of — I’ve done mountain trail races before so you get a lot of hills and a lot of running uphill. Then, when you’re just running along the flats, it feels so easy which is, like, singing is the hardest thing ever to do in front of someone. If you can do that, then of course you can go speak. [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yeah! It’s such a great analogy. You wouldn’t just start running without warming up your body, and so, again, the awareness of am I in the right place to start this — well, yeah, a lot of things we could talk about in that way, but you wouldn’t just run on a trail without having done practice beforehand. 

0:28:11

Stretching is a whole other conversation. I would really — I love the mindfulness piece of the conversation, and so, in that middle of the run, if you just ran cold, fine. Your body still has a baseline to work from, and if you’re using your voice, if you’re practicing, if you’re trying new things, you’ll never go back to that baseline, Singing 101 again. You’ll have a foundation, and then you’ll say, “Oh, but, actually, I know what’s possible, and I’m not doing it right now. What can I do to adjust,” and it won’t be, like, “I can’t sing; it’s the end of the world.” It won’t happen like that. You’ll say, “I know I have the tools. They might not be accessible to me right now. I might just have to slow down my run, stop for a moment and stretch, and then get back out on the trails again ‘cause my body knows what to do, my voice knows what to do. I trust it. I know it’s there. I’m gonna check in and make sure I can find it again. 

0:28:59

Singing is a mindfulness practice. You cannot be anywhere else when you’re singing. It’s very hard. One of my favorite conversations recently was around how every line of conversation, of song, is an opportunity to begin again, and there’s nothing else that really allows you that kind of grace and freedom to reset. It’s such a beautiful thing, and we also, of course, are tapping into creativity and some of what you, you know, discussed about getting into our bodies in a different way. It’s a full body experience, and, I mean, what a healing thing on its own just to think about what’s happening inside.

Amanda Testa: For sure.

Lisa Townsend: Taking our head out of it and getting into our bodies.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I’m sure this work that you do also helps people trust their voice more.

Lisa Townsend: That’s it.

Amanda Testa: Right?

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, it’s really remarkable to see people — I’ll take an example from this week. 

0:29:56

One of my clients, we started a new genre of music, and she’s like, “I know I can hit that note. I’ve hit that note before. Why does it feel so high?” We had to kind of dissect why, for her — you know, she knows she can hit it, but it was just the technique. It was a set up. Then, in her head, because old scripts are hard to flip, she was still telling herself ‘I can’t hit that note.’ I was like, “We’ve hit it before. Remember this song? Sing that. Remember this song?” You know, we just kind of played around with remembering those moments, and then she thought, ”Okay, yeah, I don’t know why I’m still telling myself that.” It’s a practice. It will, maybe, always be a practice, but, again, we don’t start from scratch every time; we create building blocks to trust what you know, be curious about what you don’t know, and maybe not go to all or nothing thinking: “I can’t do this.” It’s, maybe, more, “I’m having trouble with this in this moment.” Quick reflection: anything why, anything coming up for me? Okay, no, I’ll figure it out later. I’m just gonna work with what I have and trust that I have the tools I need for the moment.

0:31:04

Amanda Testa: Powerful skills.

Lisa Townsend: [Laughs] Powerful. It is, and no one teaches us this. I feel like we come to it on our own. We come with coaching and learning from others, and then this self-reflection piece. A lot of us are in this space of self-reflection; a lot of people are not. 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: But those who are kind of inquiring, curious, I think there’s a lot to explore here.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It takes it out of yes, singing, I want singing to be for you, I don’t want it to be performative. That’s not what it’s about. All of these tools we’re talking about with singing apply to speaking, it’s just a really fun, creative way — and a brave space, you know. There’s a little motivation behind it. When you have the music going, you know, as they say, the show must go on, but in the realm of I have two minutes to do this, self-judgment, there’s no time for that. You’re in the  moment. You’re adjusting in that moment, and think of all the times when you’ve been, you know, having a conversation and needed to reset and stop yourself and feel comfortable kind of, like, quick, a reset in your mind, reassess, and keep going, but you only have split seconds to do that, and voice work really allows you to practice those moments.

0:32:14

Amanda Testa: Yeah, mm-hmm. I just so appreciate you and all your wisdom that you shared, and I know we could go — we’ve talked about a lot of different things.

Lisa Townsend: Oh, yeah.

Amanda Testa: But I’m wondering if there’s, maybe, one question that I didn’t ask — to really wish that I would have asked. So anything else that you wanted to share?

Lisa Townsend: Mm, I just really think our voice is one of the most important tools and instruments we have available to us, and I think we’ve spoken about this before, but we’re talking a lot about external voice, but I’d like to also reflect quickly on the internal voice.

Amanda Testa: Yes.

Lisa Townsend: Because we make a lot of decisions, especially as entrepreneurs, and you have to know — it’s like you have to be comfortable listening to yourself to know when the right time to listen is. 

0:32:58

I think we can all think of a time where we knew what we knew before we knew it, [Laughs] waited too long to take action, and, in some cases — I mean, I think of that from a relationship perspective where, you know, we have an internal knowing, but if we’re not used to listening to ourselves, we’re not gonna hear ourselves when it matters, and if everyone could, kind of in the sense of owning your voice, know that that means not just what people hear, but what you hear. I don’t know how that would change the world, but I feel like it’s pretty important, and it’s a skill that we don’t talk often enough about.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and just in that vein, is, maybe, there one thing that you could share of how we could better listen to that inner voice and honor it?

Lisa Townsend: I think it does come down to checking in, listening, and just that awareness. I think it could be something you practice really simply with partner or a child. You say something and you think am I just saying that because it’s a script? Am I saying it because it feels right in the moment or would I really like to say something else but I don’t want to take the time to have that conversation right now? 

0:34:03

There’s no wrong answer, but I think the piece of knowing the intention behind, is one of the first steps. And then, finding small places to practice where it’s not a high stakes opportunity, and so, that could be from — I think about people who always say, you know, where do you want to go for dinner? Where do you want to eat? Do you not know? Do you know? I mean, that sounds so simple, but I think you have to trust the smallest steps. You have to practice in the least — yeah.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: The least — just these tiny small ways, and, you know how we have to trust ourselves to make decisions and we have to try small moments of trust? Same thing with our voice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: That little inkling? Something I should follow? I’m gonna follow it and see what happens. Will the world collapse? If it does, can I trust that, you know, I can bring it back together again. I mean, most often, those small moments are not going to — the bottom is not gonna fall out.

Amanda Testa: Right.

0:35:00

Lisa Townsend: And if it is uncomfortable because people who are used to communicating with you are not used to hearing you in that way, that is — again, it has to be a small step. Oh, she’s being extra assertive. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that’s an important thing to practice.

Amanda Testa: Yes. So true, ‘cause so often, you know, people that are conditioned as women in this culture don’t always speak up for what they want or they need. I think that is what’s — you can just, like, break through with that voice and singing, and right now I’m letting my chest open up because yes, I see that so often, you know, of people just not saying what they want or just pleasing or, you know — and there’s a lot to that, right? Sometimes there are some things that need to be unwound a little deeper, but still just having these opportunities which is why music is such a beautiful healing way to do that, and be in your body, and enjoy the pleasure of your voice and the sounds that you can make and the different ways you can make them. So yay! [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yes, yes, and know that there are people like you and me out there who want you to be playful and explore your voice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

0:35:59

Lisa Townsend: Find the people who are non-judgmental. Singing is a tool for you, for so many areas of your life, and it’s up to you — we all experience music really individually, so it’s not up to me as a coach to tell you how to use your voice, it’s to give you all of the tools you need. That’s what makes it authentic. Once you have your toolbox, you get to choose what feels right to you in the moment, and if we can find ways to drop the judgment and settle into does this feel good, does it resonate, do I feel powerful, do I feel authentic, do I feel like me and not — yeah, just let’s leave it with that. Do I feel like me, a really good version of me that resonates and buzzes and is excited and passionate? 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: Then, yes, let’s find more opportunities to practice that. You know, whether it’s with music or not, find ways to find that feeling, that little fire inside and follow. Follow that flame. [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Yes, I love it! Thank you so much, and I’d love, Lisa, if you could just share where everyone can learn more about you and your offerings and how to work with you.

0:37:00

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, well you can find my website at lisatownsendmusic.com. I’m on Instagram @lisatownsendmusic. Facebook is the same, and, as Amanda said, I’m starting a monthly membership for women. We’re using words as intentions. We’re creating musical intentions together. It’s very organic and based on the women who join each week. It’s a live come and start your week here with your voice feeling strong and bold and with other women who also, maybe, have some fears around their voice. Let’s do this together and support one another. And then some group work and some one-on-one work, all different stages of exploration for people.

Amanda Testa: Well, thank you so much again, and I just adore you, and I’m so excited for all that you’re creating, so thank you, Lisa. Thank you for everyone listening, and I’ll make sure to put in the show notes where you can connect with Lisa and learn more about what she has to offer and, also, just inviting you to perhaps use your voice. in some fun ways this week.

0:38:01

Lisa Townsend: Yes, please do!

Amanda Testa: Yes! We will see you next week.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa, and if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart-to-heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook at the Find Your Feminine Fire group, and if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends. Go to iTunes and give me a five-star rating and a rating and a raving review so I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself.  Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

EPISODE 202: Finding Confidence and Mindfulness Through Singing with Lisa Townsend

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex, love, and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex, love, and relationships, and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome!

Our voice is such a powerful tool, and being able to express ourselves and allow our authentic music — whatever form that might be — allowing it to come out is such a powerful and important tool, and I am so excited because today I’m talking with Lisa Townsend, and she is a board-certified music therapist and creative vocal coach. What I love about Lisa and her work is, really, she has such a passion for creating space for exploration so you can speak and sing with courage and authenticity, and really using music as a tool for inspiring leaders to really overcome any kind of limiting belief around their voice because our voice, there is sometimes — and I can share from my own experience in the past, like, really not liking the sound of my voice, not feeling like I could express myself in the way I wanted to. 

0:01:08

These are just normal things, I think, that we face in life, and so, I’m really excited to talk with Lisa today. I’ve been so passionate about the voice lately too because I have just been inspired to sing, and I’ve been taking singing lessons and just really diving into this topic, and I find it so fascinating. 

So, welcome! Thank you so much for being here, Lisa!

Lisa Townsend: Thank you for having  me! I love talking voice. I love people who just love using their voice in lots of different ways — podcasting, singing, so I’m thrilled to have the conversation. Thanks.

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm. Yes, and I just want to shout out something. I just went to an experience that Lisa hosted earlier this week, and it was so lovely. It was a soul singing session, and basically, we had these intentions, and then we sang them, and it was the most amazing meditation expression. It was so fun. So I just love, love, love what you’re doing, and I am excited to share you with the listeners!

Lisa Townsend: Thank you.

0:02:01

Amanda Testa: Yeah, I’d love to — you know, if you just wouldn’t mind letting me know and just sharing with the listeners a little bit of your journey and why singing, why working with the voice became such a passion for you.

Lisa Townsend: I would love to. So I grew up in western New York, and my maternal grandmother (who is 92, she just turned 92), she was a singer in the family. We would play piano and she would teach me harmonies. We’d go to the theatre, and my dad was self-taught guitar and loved singing The Eagles and The Beatles. So I grew up around music in that way. I did choirs. I performed in church shows, you know, high school choir and theatre, and, well, I was trying to decide what I wanted to do. I had loved, loved, loved my high school choir director. He had just made such an impact. I loved the community that we built together through music, and it wasn’t about singing notes; it was about, you know, the collaborative, co-creative process of sharing our voices together and the beauty and magic that can happen when we do that.

0:03:01

So I thought I wanted to be, I don’t know, a choir director, (music education) and I went to college for music education at the same university he went to, and I, right away, knew it was not for me. It was one of those internal knowings. I did not actually wanna teach a classroom of music, you know, traditional music education. I, later, found out about the degree of music therapy, and without knowing too much about it, went down to visit a college in North Carolina where I learned that music therapy was more about using music as a tool for non-musical goals. What was exciting about that, to me, is that it was about experiential. You know, it wasn’t about reading rhythms and music theory and, you know, some of the elements of music that can be really intimidating and overwhelming. Honestly, I feel like I was guided to this for so many reasons.

So when I realized music didn’t have to be the end product, it was part of the journey, I mean, I was in. I got to see right away in the onsite clinic that they had, you know, what that looked like in a session, and then moved, later, into doing some family music classes. 

0:04:07

Again, for the experience of music, having families sing together, I realized so many of the mothers didn’t love singing. They were highly aware of their voice in class and maybe embarrassed about it even though all of them were embarrassed. It always took one brave soul and me to kind of lead the group and, really, overly encouraging them to be silly, and goofy, and playful, and there is a piece of that that we lose when we’re older. I’m kind of skipping some in between about how I’ve used music therapy in my work, but to jump from music is the tool, not the performance aspect, I saw it showing up. I thought if mamas aren’t singing with their babies, what is wrong with the world? [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Oh, my gosh, that’s so true! Well, it’s funny that you mention that ‘cause, you know, I grew up with music, too, and my dad loved music and live music. I think my parents went and saw Elvis when I was in the womb.

Lisa Townsend: Yes!

0:04:58

Amanda Testa: We were always listening to music, and I grew up playing piano for 12 years and guitar and banjo. Whatever instrument I wanted to play, my parents were very supportive. I’m very grateful for that privilege of being able to just explore and have fun with it. I was in choirs and things but never thought my voice was very good. I guess, when I got into college I played guitar and things like that. I love live music. You know, I was a Deadhead, and have went and seen so many live shows. I just love music so much, and it is such a great way of connecting and just dropping into a different realm. But I do recall when my daughter was born and singing to her I was like I don’t think I’ve sung in, like, 15 years. The first time I was, like, trying to sing, and it felt so weird, and I felt like every time I would sing I would cry. It was just a lot.

Lisa Townsend: Mm.

Amanda Testa: It’s interesting. So I can relate to those moms that are like, doo-doo. You know, singing the rappy songs or whatever it is. [Singing] Six little ducks went out to play. And you can even sing it even now.

Lisa Townsend: [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: It’s so funny to remember that, so thank you for triggering that memory in me.

0:05:58

Lisa Townsend: Thank you for that memory and sharing that because it speaks to that our voice is one of the most vulnerable things we have, and public speaking, whether we’re on Zoom, whether we’re on a stage, those are two different kinds of speaking, it’s still our voice. Then you add a tone or a note to a word and suddenly you’re singing — the most vulnerable thing you can do — and it can tap into emotions. I think we’re afraid of places we’ve not explored before which absolutely kind of takes us into the next part of the conversation which is — I’ll skip over a bit of this, but I’ll just drop in a tiny bit. The moms singing to their babies, I decided to play with the idea of what if I took parents’ words and set them to music, and I did a simple song. It’s not Adele singing a lullaby, [Laughs] it’s Lisa singing a lullaby, like, with a very accessible, simple sound that, then — ‘cause we all mimic our favorite artists. Well, fine, I’m not gonna give you anything that you can’t do. I’m gonna create things in a key that’s comfortable, at a tempo that’s slow, and you’re gonna give me the words and I’m just gonna, you know, set them to music for you. 

0:07:05

So there should be less vulnerability because it’s things you say to your children all the time or hopes and wishes you have for them. Maybe that takes away some of the vulnerability. I do still do some of that, but it’s more, kind of, word of mouth at this point.

Then fast forward to okay, when did people tell us that we couldn’t sing? Again, I’m coming at this from a singing lens today, but I think it’s highly applicable to speaking in the many ways we use our voice. When did that happen? I think that happens around age six or seven when we start to have a reflection about what others think about us. We can see ourselves in other people’s eyes, and can I talk to women who are mothers who are in their 30s and 40s who, maybe, need to be reminded that the stories that they tell themselves, maybe, aren’t their stories. 

0:07:58

Those are habits that we’ve created, and singing is a tool like anything else. Taking your voice to the gym, learning new techniques, exploring new scary places, and approaching it from a sense of play. What if? What if we did that? [Laughs]

I created a community choir where the sole purpose was we love harmonies, we love hearing and singing harmonies. Let’s create them. Simple, easy, beautiful. Our favorite hippie bands from the ‘60s, ‘70s, all those gorgeous — Eagles, CCR, Crosby, Stills, Nash — yeah, all those gorgeous rich harmonies. Can we create that? We’re just, like, normal people. Yes, we can, and here’s how, and it takes, you know, developing an ear for sound and knowing what your voice feels like, and so many things. So all of that exploration, without going into too much detail, is how I decided my ideal client is people who have been told they can’t or shouldn’t sing who are trying to be more dynamic and bold with their voice or, really, kind of want to but have some limitations whether that’s self-imposed or societally shared with them at some point, and they took it on as their own.

0:09:06

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I know for myself, I can remember a distinct moment of hearing that I wasn’t a good singer. You know, trying out for some solo in choir and not getting the parts or whatever. Right, those kinds of things, at the time, might not seem like a big deal, but they do stick with you. And so, I’m wondering, you know, what are some of the other limiting beliefs that you see around voice with people?

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, that’s a good question, and I do think you speak to — everyone has a moment. Everyone has a moment where they were told they were too much or not enough or you’re too quiet, you’re too loud, and whether or not that’s tied to singing, again, you and I are in the world where we’re sharing our voice, we’re sharing a message. Where does that stop us in a way that we didn’t realize that’s not our story, that’s actually not true. That was someone else’s truth, and we just may not have had the ability to kind of let it roll off our shoulders, and so, we carry that with us. 

0:10:04

I just made myself a voice note before we hopped on that said something like, “We all have the script; I can’t sing.” I don’t know if it’s, like, a script that is socially acceptable, that when someone says something about voice (even me, I’m a vocalist), I don’t always own that because I’m not on an American Idol stage. Again, that’s the narrative I’m trying to change.

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Right.

Lisa Townsend: It’s a practice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It doesn’t just happen overnight. Where does that come from? So I think, most often, it’s people either sincerely believing they don’t or can’t sing. “I don’t hit that note.” Well, I mean, there are a lot of questions around that note. Is it the right note for you? Are you pushing? Are you feeling vocal effort? Did you wake up? Did you not sleep well? Have you not had water in 24 hours? So many reasons why you can’t hit a note, and that actually doesn’t mean you can’t sing. 

0:10:58

It means we need to have an awareness about how we create sound, and then you can say, “Oh, I’m struggling with this. Is there anything I can do to adjust so that it’s more comfortable or that I find it more beautiful?” 

So, anyway, that script of, “Oh, I don’t sing,” or, “Oh, I sing, but only in the shower.”

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, “I can’t hit high notes.” Yeah, and we’re always comparing ourselves with our favorite artists who are — live music is it. That’s where you hear the raw voice. From a studio you are not gonna hear all the tricky spots that we all have in our voice, you know? It’s not a perfect art. It’s not perfect.

Amanda Testa: Right. You know, it is true. It’s just like looking in a magazine. It’s photoshopped. It’s not real. That’s not the reality, and that’s what happens when you’re listening to artists on the radio or listening to studio-perfected, auto-tuned, cleaned-up songs, no one’s gonna sound like that.

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: But I think, you know, what I love about it, though, is just how it can be a way to connect with your authentic voice and to listen to your voice, to express without judgment. 

0:12:00

I really think I love new ways to be able to express yourself confidently, because it shows up in every area of your life, right? Whether you’re singing or whether you’re speaking or whether you’re trying to connect with someone new or whether you’re trying to communicate your needs in the bedroom, right, it’s all so connected. And so, I’d love if you wouldn’t mind sharing a little bit more around things that you think are some tips that you can do around just appreciating your voice for what it is or not judging what comes out of your mouth. [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm. Life-long practices, but yes, there are some tips, and I think what you speak to, first, is awareness. Another piece of this is resonance, practice, and so, we can talk about those in depth. I was talking with a friend recently who reminded me that nothing gets you more comfortable with your own voice than in sharing it with others and getting comfortable hearing yourself. So we take ourselves to the gym, or we get outside and exercise to remind our muscles what to do. 

0:12:57

We need to do that, and voice work is one really fun way whether you have a coach, whether you hop on YouTube, honestly, whether you just sing along. A lot of people are even just uncomfortable, you know, singing out loud. I think a lot of us sing in our heads. You know, we have music on and we kind of sing it around in our heads, but physically using our instrument in a way that you can hear yourself is like taking yourself to the gym, and the more you do it, the more it becomes second nature. The more it becomes second nature, the less you second guess it, because you say, “Oh, that’s just me. I know how I sound.” 

I don’t know if you have a story around that around podcasting. I imagine that is something that happens for those of us who use our voice in a recorded way and hear it over and over again. Initially, the judgment is so high, and the more you kind of use that muscle, the less activated or triggered you might be by the sound. I don’t know if you have something to share around that, but I find that fascinating.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, well, it’s interesting because I think I can remember times in the past where I would listen to my voice on a recording and be like that does not sound like me, and also, just how my voice has changed over the years ‘cause I grew up in Georgia, and I don’t really have an accent anymore. I found this random mixtape back in the day — remember those? 

0:14:06

We used to make those, and my friend and I would send cassettes back and forth to each other, and I was listening to the voice, and I was like who is that! I was like oh, my god, that’s me! [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: Yes, but it is true. It’s, like, the judgment we have, but now, after using my voice for my work for so many years, I’m just very used to it and the sound of it, but I do know it can be really hard just ‘cause sometimes I’ll invite my students to record something and then listen back to it because that does affect your brain in different ways when you listen to your own voice, and it’s a really hard thing to do for a lot of people — like, really hard.

Lisa Townsend: Yes. Yeah, and one of the tips I use — or tools I use in one-on-one voice work, and also in my group work, has been asynchronous feedback meaning — actually, primarily, I have used Marco Polo which is a video message. I met one of my former clients last night for dinner, and she and her husband, we were playing, and I said, “You know, this has been such a good tool, but people really resist doing it because they can see themselves and hear themselves, and that is really tricky.” 

0:15:07

If you’re not having a conversation with someone and you’re just looking at yourself, I mean, in the world of social media, now, we’re doing all sorts of reels and things on Instagram. We’re going live, and you just see yourself, and it’s like you’re just in this echo chamber. It feels very funny until you practice it, and then you kind of say ope, I’m here. I’m in my zone. I’m gonna find my flow.

But, to your point, it takes a considerable amount of effort to see yourself or hear yourself over and over again and get through, kind of, those uncomfortable moments or ask, “Hey, I notice this about my voice,” and finding someone, a mentor, you can say, “You know, is there a way to change that or is that typical or is that something so noticeable that, actually, I should think about keeping it because it makes people recognize my voice in the crowd?” You know, there are some things about our voice that we think are uncomfortable for us to hear but make us notable in a crowd, and so, what we’re talking about here is frequent exposure, right? 

0:16:03

That can be through, like I said, just singing out loud. Make sure you hear yourself a little often. Be really playful with your sound and not afraid to try new things, which sounds silly, but think about singing your favorite song in a character voice, and just see what comes out. It’s like playing with your old mixtapes, as you described, and just hearing and saying, you know, that is my authentic voice. Now, I have an authentic voice, and what can I do with the tools that I have?

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm.

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, it’s very interesting to have just the awareness. Awareness is step one. Then you can think about being playful. Then you can take it deeper into okay, that’s my voice. I don’t sound sure of myself. Is that because the message I’m speaking doesn’t feel like it’s my truth? Am I saying something I want people to hear or something that they want to hear from me and maybe not my full, authentic truth? 

0:17:03

My word for that is resonance. Oh, you know, I might have to backpedal and say that’s not exactly what I meant, and say it again, and then you can feel resonance. It’s a way we sound with our voice. We can be resonant, and you can feel like it resonates.

Amanda Testa: I know we were talking about this earlier, but with that resonance and how you can communicate with more confidence through, you know, learning to love your voice and working with it in different ways like singing or just even playfully. I love how you mentioned the archetypes. You’re, like, just playing with a different voice, ‘cause it can be so powerful to use archetypal play to heal or to try something new, and I love that. 

And so, the other thing that you just mentioned which I think is important is kind of, like, the authentic voice. You mentioned this when we were talking before about phrasing and how you speak if you end your voice in certain ways. It’s, like, question mark versus a truth, and I’m wondering if that comes into play when you’re speaking that just now. 

0:18:02

Like, when I’m talking, is this really what I want to say or this is what I want to say or how you can speak to that a little more.

Lisa Townsend: That’s so fun to think about. Okay, so let’s think about how music and voice overlap. This is my zone of genius and zone of interest and play, but our subconscious will make our voice do things. You know, we just speak without thinking, oftentimes, right? Voice work calls us in to say okay, let’s have a little bit more awareness around this. This is a podcast episode. Am I a little nervous? Yes. Are you a familiar person? Yes, but now we’re being recorded. Now, I’m looking at myself on Zoom. Now, I’m with headphones that I haven’t used before. All of these things make me think okay, I know what I know, and yet, now, there’s a spotlight moment. 

So I like to think of things in — there are lots of different spotlight moments. That can be speaking up in a group program. That can be on an interview. The first awareness I had — I’ll walk you through my process today. I’m excited. I can feel the excitement in my chest. I am speaking high in my chest. 

0:19:02

I can feel it. As you were talking, I took a really low belly breath to recenter myself and kind of just reminded myself, “Lisa, you’re so excited. Connect a little deeper. Connect a little lower. You’ll find your flow again.” Not that I haven’t had it, but a different flow that then, to me, signals my body you can pace your language, your words, your phrases differently. You don’t have to tell everybody everything once. People can feel your excitement like this. It’s really hard to listen when things are just going like this. You can tell when someone’s not taking a deep breath and that they don’t speak between their — they don’t breathe between their sentences. [Inhales Deeply] [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It’s not a bad thing. It’s a practice, and it happens every time. So some of the tools I like to talk about that parallel speaking and breathing is — yes, phrasing. Thinking about any phrase is a beautiful arc. Like, not a mountain peak, just a hill. 

0:19:59

That we have peaks and valleys both with how many words we say in a phrase, the melody of our voice in one of those phrases, when we intentionally take breath, and, to your point, how we both begin and end a sentence. I’m using my hands a lot. It’s not a visual medium, podcasting, but, you know, you can see that I’m kind of giving you these hand gestures where if we’re, maybe, not checked in and not aware, we might end a sentence with our voice on an uptick. So did you know that we have so many different tools for our voice? Yes, we do. I mean, you give these little clues that sometimes you want to intentionally do that to capture attention, and other times you might end it on a high and people are like, “Wait, wait, you left me hanging. What do you need from me?” That takes their ears away from the message that you’re trying to convey. So knowing how those peaks and valleys in the melody of your voice, what intentional breaths can feel and look like to your audience and to you, and then how you’ve ending your sentence with intention so that your message is being heard as you intended. 

0:21:09

All really fun things to play with in singing and feel very weird to do just speaking.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, but I think, you know, like you say for so many of us in this day and age, we have to be visible, right? There’s just a lot more going on, a lot more video, a lot more just being visible and being able to, kind of, learn these different ways to express yourself, I think, is a really powerful thing. Also, being able to speak more courageously, you know, having more bravery and using your voice, I’m curious how you feel singing helps with that.

Lisa Townsend: I mean, isn’t singing the most brave thing you can do? [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Yeah!

Lisa Townsend: I mean, it is one of those — a simple fact, like, as we said earlier, singing is one of the most vulnerable things you can do, and it is a practice, and I don’t know how public speaking coaches or speaking coaches — I think they just do a lot of practice, right? 

0:22:06

A little more like an acting class where you might put on a character and you might play with all these sme tools, but in music it’s built in. It’s built in. I mean, A, they’re not your words so you’re less emotionally attached to them, maybe, in the moment. Later down the line you can actually play with those based on how you’re telling the story, but on the front end, not my words, I just get to play with the phrasing. I get to choose or hear where the music guides me to breathe. I know I can’t hit certain notes if I don’t have enough breath support. If I don’t have breath support, that means I’m not checking in with my core. Okay, I have to activate my core. I have to activate my shoulders. I have to know what a full breath feels like, and then I need to know where my voice is landing and how to adjust throughout. All of those things are so important for speaking and much more fun to play with in song because, again, it’s kind of a roadmap for your voice naturally. 

0:23:03

What we like to do in voice work is deconstruct a song. So not only do we listen to how the original artist did it, but then we kind of — I tell my clients it’s like naked singing because I just have the piano accompaniment. There’s a delay on Zoom, so I can’t always hear them full voice because of the sound delay, so it allows them in the safe space to play with their voice without their favorite artist and hear themselves. I say okay, “Well, did that feel good? Did you like the sound of it? Okay, if not, what can we do,” and we adjust and adapt, and then they hear their own voice and naturally find, “I have to breathe there. Oh, I’m hitting this! Okay, I need to make sure I’m supported,” and all of that becomes much more of a practice in a two-minute-and-thirty-second window because songs are short. [Laughs] So it gives you a real timestamp for practicing these both in the context of singing along, singing with a karaoke recording, or in our work which is kind of pulling it out of that original format and hearing your own voice in that way.

0:24:02

Amanda Testa: I love that, and it’s like building that muscle, and it sounds like it’s also such a powerful way to get into your body.

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm. The full body

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] You know, when you’re wanting to bring your feminine fire alive, being in your body and singing and just the resonance — just from a therapeutic perspective, would you feel okay sharing a little bit about just the beautiful power of our voice and vibration and how it supports us?

Lisa Townsend: Yes. I mean, thank you for asking that! I think I was just telling you before we recorded that I was listening to one of your episodes about pleasure, and I think one of my deepest wishes is for women to feel pleasure with their voice, and that’s individual, it’s situational. To your point about resonance or as we were speaking about resonance earlier, you know when something feels right or if it doesn’t, and I might take this into two different realms. It’s kind of like the external. This feels good as I’m saying it, the actual physical act and how I can feel it going out into the world. 

0:25:02

I can feel the energy of it. This all feels resonant. It feels good. It feels pleasurable. It feels right and authentic. It can also apply to your inner voice. Is this really what I mean? Is this truly how I wanted to say it in the voices in our head, maybe, like, our inner voice and our inner knowing resonance.

But from a physiological standpoint, you can put your hand on your chest. You can feel it now. If you’re talking in your chest voice, there is vibration, right? We often speak pretty low. We speak in this lower chest register, and we talk about this space as being warm. Yeah, I see you rubbing your — yeah, it’s warm. It’s low. It can feel really nice. Sometimes it can also, you know, take words out for a second and you can just hum. [Hums] Hmmm-hmmm. I don’t know if you can hear that with Zoom, but you can take that vibration and send it different places. We don’t think about this. 

0:25:58

In the context of our conversations so far, we’re talking about the practical aspects of using our voice, but not only when we say something that’s resonant, but when we place it in a part of our bodies that feels good, I mean, think about the benefits. You can feel that inner massage that’s happening, and there is a lot of work around toning and voicing. You probably talk about this a lot, embody work where creating that energy inside, igniting that feminine power is available to us, and our voice is one of the tools to do that.

Amanda Testa: Yes, it is. There’s four main holistic sex tools that I love to teach, and voice is one, sounding. I do feel like because all those vibrations are just the body actually — it’s a healing modality too with the vibration, right? It stimulates the vagus nerve and just helps to bring things online that might be offline. That’s what I love about singing and just, like, a meditation or anything like that, it just brings you so present in the moment, and that’s what I’ve been loving for my own singing journey lately is just being in the moment.

Lisa Townsend: Yes.

0:26:59

Amanda Testa: You know, I think that’s the beautiful thing about music. It makes you so present which is so important. When we get out of our bodies or we’re always up in our heads, I feel like in our day and age, the culture that we live in is very much like too-doo-loo-do-doo, what’s the next thing?

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: Like, taking the time to drop in and be with yourself in whatever way that feels good is so important. And, I mean, the other thing, too, that I think is so powerful about the work you do is just how you can translate what you’ve learned through singing and stretching your comfort zone and being brave is that when you go, then, to just to talk to someone, that feels a lot easier, right? It’s like when you train for a race, for example, when you do a lot of — I’ve done mountain trail races before so you get a lot of hills and a lot of running uphill. Then, when you’re just running along the flats, it feels so easy which is, like, singing is the hardest thing ever to do in front of someone. If you can do that, then of course you can go speak. [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yeah! It’s such a great analogy. You wouldn’t just start running without warming up your body, and so, again, the awareness of am I in the right place to start this — well, yeah, a lot of things we could talk about in that way, but you wouldn’t just run on a trail without having done practice beforehand. 

0:28:11

Stretching is a whole other conversation. I would really — I love the mindfulness piece of the conversation, and so, in that middle of the run, if you just ran cold, fine. Your body still has a baseline to work from, and if you’re using your voice, if you’re practicing, if you’re trying new things, you’ll never go back to that baseline, Singing 101 again. You’ll have a foundation, and then you’ll say, “Oh, but, actually, I know what’s possible, and I’m not doing it right now. What can I do to adjust,” and it won’t be, like, “I can’t sing; it’s the end of the world.” It won’t happen like that. You’ll say, “I know I have the tools. They might not be accessible to me right now. I might just have to slow down my run, stop for a moment and stretch, and then get back out on the trails again ‘cause my body knows what to do, my voice knows what to do. I trust it. I know it’s there. I’m gonna check in and make sure I can find it again. 

0:28:59

Singing is a mindfulness practice. You cannot be anywhere else when you’re singing. It’s very hard. One of my favorite conversations recently was around how every line of conversation, of song, is an opportunity to begin again, and there’s nothing else that really allows you that kind of grace and freedom to reset. It’s such a beautiful thing, and we also, of course, are tapping into creativity and some of what you, you know, discussed about getting into our bodies in a different way. It’s a full body experience, and, I mean, what a healing thing on its own just to think about what’s happening inside.

Amanda Testa: For sure.

Lisa Townsend: Taking our head out of it and getting into our bodies.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I’m sure this work that you do also helps people trust their voice more.

Lisa Townsend: That’s it.

Amanda Testa: Right?

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, it’s really remarkable to see people — I’ll take an example from this week. 

0:29:56

One of my clients, we started a new genre of music, and she’s like, “I know I can hit that note. I’ve hit that note before. Why does it feel so high?” We had to kind of dissect why, for her — you know, she knows she can hit it, but it was just the technique. It was a set up. Then, in her head, because old scripts are hard to flip, she was still telling herself ‘I can’t hit that note.’ I was like, “We’ve hit it before. Remember this song? Sing that. Remember this song?” You know, we just kind of played around with remembering those moments, and then she thought, ”Okay, yeah, I don’t know why I’m still telling myself that.” It’s a practice. It will, maybe, always be a practice, but, again, we don’t start from scratch every time; we create building blocks to trust what you know, be curious about what you don’t know, and maybe not go to all or nothing thinking: “I can’t do this.” It’s, maybe, more, “I’m having trouble with this in this moment.” Quick reflection: anything why, anything coming up for me? Okay, no, I’ll figure it out later. I’m just gonna work with what I have and trust that I have the tools I need for the moment.

0:31:04

Amanda Testa: Powerful skills.

Lisa Townsend: [Laughs] Powerful. It is, and no one teaches us this. I feel like we come to it on our own. We come with coaching and learning from others, and then this self-reflection piece. A lot of us are in this space of self-reflection; a lot of people are not. 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: But those who are kind of inquiring, curious, I think there’s a lot to explore here.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It takes it out of yes, singing, I want singing to be for you, I don’t want it to be performative. That’s not what it’s about. All of these tools we’re talking about with singing apply to speaking, it’s just a really fun, creative way — and a brave space, you know. There’s a little motivation behind it. When you have the music going, you know, as they say, the show must go on, but in the realm of I have two minutes to do this, self-judgment, there’s no time for that. You’re in the  moment. You’re adjusting in that moment, and think of all the times when you’ve been, you know, having a conversation and needed to reset and stop yourself and feel comfortable kind of, like, quick, a reset in your mind, reassess, and keep going, but you only have split seconds to do that, and voice work really allows you to practice those moments.

0:32:14

Amanda Testa: Yeah, mm-hmm. I just so appreciate you and all your wisdom that you shared, and I know we could go — we’ve talked about a lot of different things.

Lisa Townsend: Oh, yeah.

Amanda Testa: But I’m wondering if there’s, maybe, one question that I didn’t ask — to really wish that I would have asked. So anything else that you wanted to share?

Lisa Townsend: Mm, I just really think our voice is one of the most important tools and instruments we have available to us, and I think we’ve spoken about this before, but we’re talking a lot about external voice, but I’d like to also reflect quickly on the internal voice.

Amanda Testa: Yes.

Lisa Townsend: Because we make a lot of decisions, especially as entrepreneurs, and you have to know — it’s like you have to be comfortable listening to yourself to know when the right time to listen is. 

0:32:58

I think we can all think of a time where we knew what we knew before we knew it, [Laughs] waited too long to take action, and, in some cases — I mean, I think of that from a relationship perspective where, you know, we have an internal knowing, but if we’re not used to listening to ourselves, we’re not gonna hear ourselves when it matters, and if everyone could, kind of in the sense of owning your voice, know that that means not just what people hear, but what you hear. I don’t know how that would change the world, but I feel like it’s pretty important, and it’s a skill that we don’t talk often enough about.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and just in that vein, is, maybe, there one thing that you could share of how we could better listen to that inner voice and honor it?

Lisa Townsend: I think it does come down to checking in, listening, and just that awareness. I think it could be something you practice really simply with partner or a child. You say something and you think am I just saying that because it’s a script? Am I saying it because it feels right in the moment or would I really like to say something else but I don’t want to take the time to have that conversation right now? 

0:34:03

There’s no wrong answer, but I think the piece of knowing the intention behind, is one of the first steps. And then, finding small places to practice where it’s not a high stakes opportunity, and so, that could be from — I think about people who always say, you know, where do you want to go for dinner? Where do you want to eat? Do you not know? Do you know? I mean, that sounds so simple, but I think you have to trust the smallest steps. You have to practice in the least — yeah.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: The least — just these tiny small ways, and, you know how we have to trust ourselves to make decisions and we have to try small moments of trust? Same thing with our voice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: That little inkling? Something I should follow? I’m gonna follow it and see what happens. Will the world collapse? If it does, can I trust that, you know, I can bring it back together again. I mean, most often, those small moments are not going to — the bottom is not gonna fall out.

Amanda Testa: Right.

0:35:00

Lisa Townsend: And if it is uncomfortable because people who are used to communicating with you are not used to hearing you in that way, that is — again, it has to be a small step. Oh, she’s being extra assertive. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that’s an important thing to practice.

Amanda Testa: Yes. So true, ‘cause so often, you know, people that are conditioned as women in this culture don’t always speak up for what they want or they need. I think that is what’s — you can just, like, break through with that voice and singing, and right now I’m letting my chest open up because yes, I see that so often, you know, of people just not saying what they want or just pleasing or, you know — and there’s a lot to that, right? Sometimes there are some things that need to be unwound a little deeper, but still just having these opportunities which is why music is such a beautiful healing way to do that, and be in your body, and enjoy the pleasure of your voice and the sounds that you can make and the different ways you can make them. So yay! [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yes, yes, and know that there are people like you and me out there who want you to be playful and explore your voice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

0:35:59

Lisa Townsend: Find the people who are non-judgmental. Singing is a tool for you, for so many areas of your life, and it’s up to you — we all experience music really individually, so it’s not up to me as a coach to tell you how to use your voice, it’s to give you all of the tools you need. That’s what makes it authentic. Once you have your toolbox, you get to choose what feels right to you in the moment, and if we can find ways to drop the judgment and settle into does this feel good, does it resonate, do I feel powerful, do I feel authentic, do I feel like me and not — yeah, just let’s leave it with that. Do I feel like me, a really good version of me that resonates and buzzes and is excited and passionate? 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: Then, yes, let’s find more opportunities to practice that. You know, whether it’s with music or not, find ways to find that feeling, that little fire inside and follow. Follow that flame. [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Yes, I love it! Thank you so much, and I’d love, Lisa, if you could just share where everyone can learn more about you and your offerings and how to work with you.

0:37:00

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, well you can find my website at lisatownsendmusic.com. I’m on Instagram @lisatownsendmusic. Facebook is the same, and, as Amanda said, I’m starting a monthly membership for women. We’re using words as intentions. We’re creating musical intentions together. It’s very organic and based on the women who join each week. It’s a live come and start your week here with your voice feeling strong and bold and with other women who also, maybe, have some fears around their voice. Let’s do this together and support one another. And then some group work and some one-on-one work, all different stages of exploration for people.

Amanda Testa: Well, thank you so much again, and I just adore you, and I’m so excited for all that you’re creating, so thank you, Lisa. Thank you for everyone listening, and I’ll make sure to put in the show notes where you can connect with Lisa and learn more about what she has to offer and, also, just inviting you to perhaps use your voice. in some fun ways this week.

0:38:01

Lisa Townsend: Yes, please do!

Amanda Testa: Yes! We will see you next week.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa, and if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart-to-heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook at the Find Your Feminine Fire group, and if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends. Go to iTunes and give me a five-star rating and a rating and a raving review so I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself.  Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Freeing Your Voice and Owning Your Worth with Sara Giita Flores

Freeing Your Voice and Owning Your Worth with Sara Giita Flores

Curious to align your self-expression so you can unlock your worth, wholeness, and creativity?

When your voice has historically been dismissed, devalued or disrespected, you may struggle with voice-related fears and blocks. 

In this week’s episode I’m talking with Sara Giita Flores, a voice teacher, speaker, writer, and musician on embodying the transformation of silence and shame into radiant self-expression.

Listen in to discover how we can reclaim our worth, wholeness, and creativity by training and trusting our voices. 

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

In this episode you’ll discover

How you can reclaim the worth of your voice and being, free from expectations, comparison or hierarchical thinking.How playfully exploring your voice and wild expression can open you up to greater creativity and sensuality.How silence and shame are connected.Understanding “dual Awareness” and how this tool can help us connect to our value and worth, despite any negative internal voices.The connection between singing and self worth.Letting yourself “Scribble” when it comes to learning new things, like singing.How voice helps you inhabit your body more fully.The power of sounding in expressing your sexual self.Enjoy an easy exercise to open up your voice + expression.and much more!

JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION ON THIS EPISODE AND MORE IN MY FREE FACEBOOK GROUP, FIND YOUR FEMININE FIRE HERE.

Embodying the transformation of silence and shame into radiant self-expression, Sara Giita Flores is a voice teacher, speaker, writer, and musician based near Denver, Colorado, USA. 

After experiencing sexual assault at ages five and fifteen, she reacted by restricting her voice to stay small, pleasing, and palatable. Through music, Sara found a safe way to share a sliver of her true self and earned a Vocal Performance degree in 2006. By mastering the pretty and polished sounds, she opened the doorway to her decades-long healing journey that brought in yoga, meditation, trauma resolution therapy, and raw vocal sounding. Gradually Sara learned to unleash the fullness of her expression, playfully voicing her loudness, tenderness, wildness, and overflowing love for all of the beautiful souls on Mother Earth. 

With 15 years of experience, Sara Giita Flores brings joy and compassion to her work of helping students reclaim their worth, wholeness, and creativity by training and trusting their voices.

Connect with Sara via her website HERE.

Follow her on FB HERE

And find her on You Tube HERE.

If you liked this episode, please consider giving me a 5 Star Review on Apple Podcasts! It truly does help the podcast grow. 

Want more support in bringing your desires to life?  Schedule a confidential heart to heart with Amanda HERE.

EPISODE 201: with Sara Giita Flores

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex, love, and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex, love, and relationships, and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome!

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa, and I am so thrilled for today’s episode because it’s really around unlocking your self-expression, and how, when you’re able to do that, it can also help to unlock your worthiness, your wholeness, and your creativity because, specifically, you know, when we are in a culture like we are (very patriarchal, among other things) or if there has been trauma in your history, then often times we can kind of silence our authentic voice. Especially when, historically, that voice has been dismissed, devalued, or disrespected, there could be a potential for voice-related fears and blocks. 

0:00:59

So I am so excited because today I’m going to be talking with Sara Giita Flores, and she is going to be diving in with us on how she really helps to support women through the blossoming of their voices and sovereignty, and how by doing so you’re more able to tap into your innate creative gifts and joyfully express in the world, really transforming silence and shame into radiant self-expression. So I am so excited.

Sara is a voice teacher, she’s a speaker, a writer, and a musician, and she is just a wealth of knowledge. So welcome, Sara. Thank you so much for being here today.

Sara Giita Flores: Oh, thank you, Amanda. I’m really enjoying it.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and so, I’d love just to, you know, start a little bit. If you don’t mind sharing a little bit about what led you to be so passionate about helping women to really own their authentic expression, particularly through voice.

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah, so I see the threads of my journey going back to the ways in which my own voice was silenced and shamed. 

0:02:02

So there is the often unspoken and unarticulated effects of patriarchy where in these subtle ways we see that the mens’ voices are more important in the movies, we see that the mens’ voices are more important in the press conferences. We absorb all these messages and all these times when we’re dismissed, interrupted, and we’re made to feel as though our role is to listen more, to be the more silent and submissive in the supportive role.

Now, I’m not saying that silence is always bad because silence can be beautiful when it is an authentic inner expression, right? But, for me, silence was very connected with shame, and that was solidified for me in two experiences of sexual assault as a child. 

0:02:57

So I really had to narrow my self-expression to be quieter, less bold, less of stirring the pot, less of risking anybody ever not liking me so that there was just this whole narrowing of how can I fit myself into something that will feel socially acceptable so that I won’t garner that kind of criticism, attack, that kind of unsafety and unbelonging again. The way that I started reclaiming it was by singing. It was through music which started very much, for me, in the pleasing, polished sounds, in let me sing and play in environments where it’s expected like in a choir, in a recital, and that really allowed me to be seen and heard in a way that felt safe. 

0:04:01

So the beginning of my vocal exploration was a very traditional way with a lot of singing lessons. I got a vocal performance degree, and it was actually an injury that led me to look within. I was a piano major in college, and I got a repetitive strain injury and couldn’t keep playing for a while which was a gift because it led me to switch my emphasis to being a voice major, but it also made me realize that I couldn’t keep running from my pain because my pain would follow me, and I needed to look within and heal. And so, with that realization that it was time to heal, it really led me through yoga, through meditation, through a lot of therapy, including trauma resolution therapy, that slowly I saw the ways in which more expression, not just that narrow, pleasing, polished, palatable self wanted to come through. 

0:05:02

I see how — it’s something that we hear, and it sounds kind of trite. Like, you heal yourself to heal the world, but what I’m starting to come into experiencing more is how much that is the reality, and it’s not just that I heal myself so then I can help others heal, it’s that when I heal myself, I am the collective in its healing process that I am allowing us. And so, it’s really a joy to help facilitate women in the blossoming of their voices and connecting their breath in this down-low, receiving of nourishment and air, and then to be able to send it outward in something that feels raw and true or joyful or whatever it’s meant to be in the moment, it unlocks so much joy and sensuality and just a sense of being enough.

0:06:09

Amanda Testa: Yeah, ugh, I love that so much.

Sara Giita Flores: [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: I can feel the passion in you just as you’re saying it to me.

Sara Giita Flores: [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Sara Giita Flores: Yes.

Amanda Testa: You know, I think it’s so interesting how you say the pleasing, polished, palatable self. I think that can be something that many people can relate to because it can often feel hard to express in different ways, right? And so, I’m wondering when you are working with people in helping them to be more authentically expressed, right, kind of letting go of it has to be perfect and it has to be right, you know, really kind of helping them reclaim their worth through their authentic voice, what are some things that you explore in that?

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah, that’s a great question, Amanda. 

0:07:01

So there’s the piece of the worth, and, to me, that’s really essential to recognize that our worth is inherent. We may not always feel connected to that worth, but it is always glowing. I, personally, like to visualize that, like, flame which goes with your Find Your Feminine Fire theme, and if that flame is always growing in our belly, always glowing, then it’s really when we’re kind of on the side of feeling disconnected from that worth, when we’re in the self-doubts, when we’re in the feelings of oh, people don’t like what I have to share, nobody cares, or when we’re in the other people know so much more than me, I don’t feel like I want to speak up, or when we’re just in the I hate how I sound — when we’re in those states of disconnection and disbelief in our worth, one of the tools that I use (which I think you’ll be familiar with because we’re connected through the work of Rachael Maddox) is dual awareness. 

0:08:11

So it’s not that we’re trying to eliminate those self-doubting voices. We’re not trying to beat them into the ground until they disappear because that never works, and then it’s also self aggression, right? But when we’re able to soften and say I love you, I hear you, it’s okay that you’re feeling this and, in the other hand, become aware of this always-present, divinely-gifted worth that you don’t have to earn or prove and just be able to be in that paradoxical state of both being present. Like, yeah, I’ve got my self-doubts. They’re gonna come up because that’s how the mind works. I don’t know, maybe someday when I’m 70 they won’t come up. 

0:08:58

I can’t speak to that experience quite yet, but I can say that I’ve been working with it for a decade and the self-doubts still arise, and we can anchor more deeply into saying yeah, but they can be met by this awareness of our divine — the word that comes to mind is not just worth but, like, how necessary and essential we are as part of the collective. We are part of the whole, and our voice matters intrinsically, and it’s not about just the external markers that society is used to saying, you know, being the person who gets a million streams on — well, I’m not going to say Spotify because delete Spotify. [Laughs] So it’s not just about those external markers; it’s about the feeling of being on fire and lit from the inside and being whole and enough is like this healing balm. 

0:10:06

When you’re in the presence of someone else and you experience that energy, it’s like a hot day and you’re stepping under this waterfall and it just feels like [Deep Breath Out] such a breath of relief. 

So yeah, to summarize, the dual awareness is really a powerful tool for working with those self-doubts about your voice, and it’s also really powerful combined with offering, you know, offering to invite a higher state of consciousness to take over, to let this experience be exactly what it needs to be, and then it’s not about just trying to shift your mindset, it’s really about softening and raising yourself into just a totally different awareness and experience where you’re able to tap into the feeling of being whole and enough.

0:11:07

Amanda Testa: That is so powerful to be able to do that, and I think, you know, having that, like you say, the dual awareness, like, you can be both whole and inherently worthy and divine and still have the voices and that’s okay.

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah [laughs].

Amanda Testa: You know, one of the interesting things and, specifically, to singing, I feel like people think they have to have a great voice to sing or what would be the benefit.

Sara Giita Flores: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amanda Testa: I would love if you would maybe speak to a little bit of what you feel like the connection is between singing and just expressing yourself in general. Like, how singing can be such a powerful tool, not just only to use your voice, but just in general in how you show up. I’d love to hear you share more about that.

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah, definitely. So, you know, recorded music has really changed the way humans interact with music and singing.

0:11:59

Before recorded music, most people sang whether they were part of a tribal culture and they sing in rituals and gatherings. Whether they sing in church, whether they sing in another form of religious worship, and also just people at their parties. They’d get together, and somebody might have a violin, and they would get together and sing, and it didn’t matter if you had a good voice. You know, maybe you wouldn’t be the leader if you couldn’t sing in tune, but you’d just join in. I lament the fact that now there’s not that much singing and there’s not that much collective singing because recorded music is great and listening to singers we love who can do amazing things with their voices is fun, but it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t sing, because if you feel the urge to express something, then it is such a joy to let it come through in the same way that a child does.

0:12:56

I have kids, and I know that I watch my children making art, for example, and it’s just about the fun, and it’s about the process, and it’s about the joy of making something, and if you sing or make any kind of vocal sound (which we all do because we speak), then I think it’s really powerful if you have the interest to just let yourself sing or vocalize for fun and to practice non-judgement with your sound, because we’re really taught that there’s good sounds, there’s bad sounds, there’s acceptable sounds, there’s weird sounds, there’s embarrassing sounds, and it’s quite a fun practice to say I’m gonna make some sound — ahhh, ahhhh — and it may be totally weird, and that’s okay. We’re not gonna judge things as good or bad. It’s just something that arises in my belly, and when I breathe in, then it wants to send that air over my vocal chords which want to join together and create some sound that just changes — it actually shifts the air and the objects in the room. 

0:14:13

So when you create a sound, these sound waves are actually pushing the air molecules and reaching all of the things and all of the people in the room, and reaching all of the cells of your body. So it’s a measurable vibration that you are creating. And yeah, I invite listeners who have a little interest to just return to it being for fun just for exploration. You know, it’s like a visual art is not my medium, so it’s easier for me to let go of trying to be good. So it’s like scribbling on a page. If you just let yourself make some sounds and see what wants to arise, it’s a reconnection to our wild soul and to our sensual nature and just to enjoying feeling the sound. 

0:15:02

The feeling of producing sound, in your body, can be fun. [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: I love how you say it’s like a scribble on a page. 

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah. [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: That is really striking to me. I love that because — it’s funny, I think we talked about this last time is that I have been taking singing lessons which is so — and part of it is because of this just, like, wanting to have more fun with expression, but what I find is so interesting is that so much can come up when we do these types of — because it is a somatic activity, right?

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: And so, you can find, like, wow, there’s a lot here that I didn’t realize.

Sara Giita Flores: Yes.

Amanda Testa: But I think it’s funny just realizing, for my own self, my experience was this filter of judgment that, like, lives in my throat. It’s like oh, I’m only gonna let out something if it’s perfect. Mediocrity does not exist. There’s no room for that.

Sara Giita Flores: Yes.

Amanda Testa: You know, these are all just things that I’ve heard in my life. It’s so interesting, and I love how — yeah, just making sound for fun and scribbling with your voice. [Laughs]

Sara Giita Flores: [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: It’s so fun, and I know you’re gonna take us through an exercise in a little bit, but I’d love to just ask you a little bit more. 

0:16:01

You know, you were talking about how using your voice can elicit your wildness, and one of the holistic sex tools I love is using sound, like, sounding, making noise. I’d love to hear you share your perspective on how playfully exploring your voice can help open up your sensuality even.

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. Well, you know, in some ways it relates to what you said which is a really common pattern with your throat that you feel like, well, it needs to be perfect to come out, right? [Laughs] And I’ve definitely seen that in other women, the restriction around the voice. So it’s kind of like if there’s a restriction in your voice, it’s a restriction in your being. So if you start to soften into feeling why that restriction wants to protect you, why it wants to be there to keep you safe, and you start feeling into what might be even more supportive, how might it start to feel safe, how about those muscles, the energy patterns, the parts of your psyche that feel scared to be more freely expressive and make mistakes, how could they feel safe opening up more? 

0:17:27

Then what happens is you can think of it in the same way as, you know, if you’re feeling a little bit restricted in your body and you start a practice of dance and inhabiting your body (which I know is recommended by a lot of people like Mama Gena), then it’s going to change how you experience intimacy with yourself or with a partner, and it’s going to deepen how you can really tune in, get out of just being in your mind, and what does my partner think of this, is this okay, are they feeling pleased, are they judging me, are they getting bored, you know, all these internal dialogues that can go on even when we’re in intimacy or even just the checking out, the need to dissociate when we’re intimate. 

0:18:22

So, for me, opening the voice is an extension of learning how to inhabit your body, and for most people, the getting more comfortable with coming inside and noticing your sensations and being present with whatever you find in there for, you know, whatever amount of time it may be that you can — it might be for 20 seconds, and then that’s enough of being in your body for now, and that’s totally fine. You gotta be where you’re at, but the voice work, then, when you’re getting a little bit more comfortable in your body, the voice represents what wants to come into more being, what wants to come into more form and expression. 

0:19:06

So it’s like if you’re able to tune into your body and to those sensations and you’re able to take a deep breath, and say ooh, my belly expands when I take a breath and hallelujah, my belly can expand and I don’t have to judge that even though our culture says bellies need to be a certain way. [Laughs] Just let your belly come into fullness, as you breathe in, and then the sound is the expression of what you’re feeling, so the expression of pleasure. In intimacy, I mean, being able to speak up for your needs and set boundaries when needed is so healing. So I notice, also, that voice work helps with setting boundaries, helps with stating this is what I need, this is what I’m comfortable with, and just being able to trust that you deserve to voice those needs. 

0:20:09

So that’s kind of the first layer, being able to safely assert and express what you need and want in intimacy, and then when you open up some of the wild sounds and you get comfortable with howling or growling on your own, then it’s likely that you may find you enjoy some moaning when you’re in an intimate situation and that it just feels so freeing [Breath Out] and like a natural extension of all the pleasure that you’re feeling in your body, which isn’t to say you have to be loud all the time. As I’ve said, I have kids. Sometimes there are times when, you know, you want to express truly but gently. [Laughs] So everything is, you know, for the time, place, and person, but just spending a little time letting yourself explore some wild sounds can definitely open up your capacity for feeling and expression.

0:21:07

Amanda Testa: I think it’s so interesting too, ‘cause I was just pondering this the other day. I was like okay, when do I feel like I make the most authentic sounds, and it’s usually during when I’m having sex with my partner, you know, and we’re really just — when you’re just so dropped into the body and you’re just like oh, whatever’s there. Or obviously, you know, I really do feel like what you say, allowing those different sounds for your body to make also opens up a little playfulness too.

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah, yeah.

Amanda Testa: Because when you can be silly and make silly sounds and let it all be okay — and it’s interesting because I am great with all that, but then when it comes to, like, singing, that’s a whole nother realm which is why I’m doing that work right now because I was like this is something [Laughs] that feels challenging, and partly because, you know, I grew up singing in choir and always have been a speaker but not a singer. It’s interesting, ‘cause that is where it’s interesting. It’s like there’s so much judgment on my singing voice that we’re unwinding. 

0:22:02

I know a lot of it. I know where a lot of it stems from, but it’s just so interesting. I just love how deeply connected everything in our systems are and how it can be so fun to just explore. Like you say, it can just open up these new avenues of authenticity and wholeness.

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah. Right.

Amanda Testa: They’re all fun.

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: So I know you were mentioning that you have a little exercise that you’d like to share.

Sara Giita Flores: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Amanda Testa: Would you be willing to tell us a little bit more about that?

Sara Giita Flores: Absolutely. So this is an exercise that I call playing with instinctual sound, and the invitation is to play, to have fun, to let yourself be silly, wacky, weird, maybe sound like a little kid, maybe sound like an animal, or maybe make some very plain and not at all unusual sounds. Just whatever wants to come through, and it’s a really simple practice. 

0:23:00

I just make a sound and then I’ll pause so your listeners can, if they wish, explore something. But I do want to mention that sometimes this work is pretty edgy for people, and it is completely fine if you just want to listen because that may be exactly what you need to receive. It’s also completely fine if you just want to listen and then you respond with a simple humming or just saying a word like, “I am here with myself.” That would be a phrase. [Laughs] And, you know, if you’re driving, probably, you might want to pause and come back to this or something, and if you’re watching dishes, watch out because you might break some. [Laughs] I just feel inspired!

So we’re gonna begin with just tuning in with our breathing. So I invite you to drop in, noticing how your lower ribs can expand as you breathe in.

0:24:02

And your diaphragm, which is this really large muscle, like a dinner plate underneath your lungs, it goes downward a bit as you take in a full breath. [Breathes In] So this opening allows the air to rush in, and when you really think about it, we take our breath for granted, but it is nourishment in the most basic and essential way. You are breathing in exactly what your cells need to thrive, and one way that I find helps tune into the receiving of nourishment is to imagine that your lungs are filling with white light as you breathe in. So take in a nice breath, let your lungs fill with white light, and receive nourishment that reaches all your cells. Now, what’s gonna happen is I’m gonna start making some instinctual or wacky sounds, and then I’m going to pause. 

0:25:05

So listeners can just, you know, breathe through the pause and silence if they want. You can do something similar to what I do with your sound, or you can do something totally different. There is no right or wrong, and the goal here is softening of judgment. So all sounds are welcome. Pretty, ugly, weird, soft, loud, anything, it’s all welcome. [Makes Sounds] Huuuuh-ah-ah-ah. Hee-ahh, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ahhhhh.

0:25:57

Hoo-oooh-ooh-ah-ah-ahhhhh. Ca-caaaaaw-ahhhh. Ha-ah-ah-ah, ha-ah, ah-ah, ah-ah, ah-ahhhh.

You did it! You listened to a human making some unusual, wild sounds from the depths of her soul and if you decided to participate, then even more kudos to you because, as I’ve said, this can be edgy, but it can also be really fun. You know, when I do this with students, we really get back and forth. We end up in giggles a lot of the time because we just play off of each other, and it’s amazing to see how a woman’s whole body and face lights up when she has the invitation to just play with sound. 

0:27:09

It’s like, you know, the sort of stupor that we get when we’re not feeling very inspired. It’s just gone, and it’s filled with this radiance that’s coming out through the body, through the sound, and the playfulness is such a key to joy.

Amanda Testa: Yeah. Ugh, I love it! That was so fun.

Sara Giita Flores: [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: And I think, too, like, you just pointed on, when you’re able to just have fun with this type of thing, it does increase your creativity, I truly believe. I’d love, maybe, if you would speak to that a little bit more. 

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah, so creativity is one of the big things that I love to work with, and it most definitely opens up your creativity because one of the things that inhibits our creativity the most is the filters. It’s the mental filters and the patterns that make us feel like everything has to be good, everything has to be professional quality in order to be worthwhile because we’re adults, and adults only make things if they’re going to be really, really good otherwise they get criticized or laughed at and things like that, right? 

0:28:17

So yeah, I use this exercise of playing with instinctual sound before songwriting, before any kind of writing. It can just be a way that you practice stepping outside of the judging mind. You practice sensing hmm, maybe something wants to be expressed, and there’s no right or wrong. You just let it flow. Just see what wants to arise, and yeah, I’ve definitely seen it opens up creativity for myself and for my students.

Amanda Testa: I’d love if you would share a little bit more about how you do work with students and clients and, if people are interested in doing this work more deeply with you – if there’s anything you’d like to share around that, I’d love to hear.

0:29:06

Sara Giita Flores: Oh, yeah. Thank you for that invitation. So I work with singers, speakers, and creative women, and the one facet of my work, because I do have a background in vocal performance, is I do work with training the voice for people who are interested. So getting really clear on healthy patterns for your breathing, your vocal mechanism, things that improve your tone. But with some students, the focus is a lot more on this unlocking the energetic aspect of self-expression. So we work some with chakras and using our voice to balance the chakras and working through those kinds of patterns that might cause some constriction or self-doubt and things like that. 

0:29:57

So yeah, I work one-on-one with people over Zoom and in person, and it’s really fun. I like working with people long term. I’m not somebody who says three hours to a new you.” I really love to see when we give time and space in between to really let things change and take root in the body, to see that change and blossoming over time, to me, is where the magic happens even though our patriarchal mindset is very much into quick fixes and solutions, I find that letting things blossom in their own time, letting the voice and your body have the time and space that it needs to really come into the alignment and the trust in your voice and self-expression is so magical. 

0:30:57

So yeah, I love working with people one-on-one, and I also have a small group as well.

Amanda Testa: Beautiful, and where is the best place for people to find out more about you?

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah, so the best palace would be my website which is saragiita.com. It’s an unusual spelling. S-A-R-A, and Giita is G-I-I-T-A, dot com, and from there you’ll be able to find links to Facebook, YouTube, and places to hear music as well.

Amanda Testa: Beautiful. Well, I am so thankful for you coming on and sharing all this goodness, ‘cause I do truly believe the more expressed we are, the more confident we are in, you know, tuning into our expression and allowing that to shine in the world is so huge. I just want to applaud all that you’re doing in the world and thank you for being here.

Sara Giita Flores: Yes, my pleasure, Amanda. It was so fun to connect with you.

Amanda Testa: Yes, and I’ll make sure, as well, to put in the show notes where you can connect with Sara and learn more about all of her offerings, and thank you so much for tuning in. Please have fun with the vocal exercise.

0:32:07

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Sara Giita Flores: [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: I’ll encourage you to try it, and, you know, if you want extra bonus points, maybe get your partner in, too, and notice how that feels to have a little playfulness together. Yeah.

Sara Giita Flores: Yeah, that’s a great idea, Amanda. Thank you so much!

Amanda Testa: Yes, all right. We will see you all next week!

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa, and if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart-to-heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook at the Find Your Feminine Fire group, and if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends. Go to iTunes and give me a five-star rating and a rating and a raving review so I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. 

0:33:05

Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Reflections on 200 Episodes. THANK YOU!

Thank YOU+Reflections on 200 episodes

woohoo!! Y’all – today is a very special episode because we’re celebrating 200 podcasts!!   Thank YOU so much for listening, I’m so grateful to all of you!

Something I’ve learned is the power of celebration.  The more we can hold and celebrate the good- the more our nervous system can allow it in!  So the more we celebrate our accomplishments, the better!    This can also be called “shine”.

Shine is derived from BJ Fogg’s amazing book Tiny Habits. He is a behavioral researcher at Stanford, and has loads of research on what actually creates behavioral change. 

A huge part of the process is celebrations, shining, for what is good and the tiny things you have done in the direction of your goals.

Shine is the name that Fogg gives to that great, positive emotion you feel when you are successful. When you do a behavior and you feel successful, your brain goes, “Whoa! What just happened? I’m going to do that again.” Your brain releases neurochemicals and takes notice when you have that strong positive reaction, which is what wires the habit—not repetition.

Something that is a big part of rewiring ourselves for more pleasure, is to celebrate and really feel amazing about every small thing that is good.  So I’m gonna shine on my crazy diamond self this week! 

My husband Mark had some great questions on some of my fave memories of these past 199 episodes, so tune in for some reflections!

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION ON THIS EPISODE AND MORE IN MY FREE FACEBOOK GROUP, FIND YOUR FEMININE FIRE HERE.

Pssstttt…I’m now booking coaching clients for 1-1 support around loving their sexuality and creating the relationship and pleasure of their dreams.   If’ you’ve been thinking about it, maybe we should talk!   Schedule a confidential heart to heart HERE.

If you liked this episode, please consider giving me a 5 Star Review on Apple Podcasts! It truly does help the podcast grow. 

Mark Testa (01:14):

So yes, I’ve got some questions that I’d like to ask you that I think will be interesting for your audience to hear as well. Sure. I love about your podcast. So as we go into number 200, what, what, what was the best show out of those hundred 99 that you remember? Like what was like, like one that really stands out for you?

Amanda Testa  (01:35):

I mean, I’ve had the privilege of talking with so many amazing experts in the field of sex and relationships. And honestly, I have to say some of my all time favorites were talking with I’ve had Dr. Emily Nagoski on the show twice and she is just, I love her. She is, I’m one of her like superstar fans. She’s such a, an amazing expert in this field and so fun and hysterical. And just down to earth also, of course, talking with Sheri Winston who wrote the incredible book, the Women’s Anatomy of Arousal and secrets of female pleasure. She is just so knowledgeable when it comes to our anatomy and what we don’t know about ourselves. And I think even as a well, educated college educated, smart, smart woman in my late thirties, when I was first starting to do this work around sexuality, I read this book and was blown away. And so those were some of my favorites. I mean, gosh, there have been so many good ones, but those two, the, those are a few that stand out as some of my favorites.

Mark Testa (02:34):

Oh, awesome. That’s great. Oh

Amanda Testa  (02:35):

My God. There’ve been so many good ones.

Mark Testa (02:38):

What’s been one of the funniest conversations you’ve had

Amanda Testa  (02:42):

Funniest.

Mark Testa (02:44):

I hear you over here laughing. It, it, so, you know when you’re recording sometimes. So do you have one that stands out if you don’t, I’ve got a list of questions?

Amanda Testa  (02:53):

Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I feel like I’m pretty funny. I don’t always let that show, but I think I am pretty funny. So maybe that’s just normal personality shining through let’s hope.

Mark Testa (03:02):

How about this one? Which one of these episodes was the most uncomfortable conversation to have? Like whether it pushed you or pushed the boundaries of content that you generally share? Just something that like, you know, maybe you was said that made you feel uncomfortable. Do you have one of those?

Amanda Testa  (03:23):

I mean, honestly, I feel pretty comfortable talking about everything. Yeah. So nothing too crazy. I mean, I feel like that’s the thing it’s like, you can’t, you just gotta be open to all the different flavors of things people enjoy and what people are into and, you know, choose what you enjoy.

Mark Testa (03:39):

Yeah. That’s great. And you are easy to talk to, so I can’t see you getting too uncomfortable about much about it. Did you, do you, have you noticed any sort of like common theme around, I know you’re talking about everything but is there like one or two where you’ve had more repeat kind of themes that you can think of? I know it’s 199 episodes.

Amanda Testa  (04:04):

So one of the things that I feel like some of the top downloaded episodes are always around secrets of female pleasure. How do I have epic sex? How do I have a more satisfying sex life? You know what, you know, what will boost my arousal? What will boost my desire? What’s that what’s missing in my sexual pleasure. The, how do I get my sexy back? Like those type of things are always the top, top downloaded.

Mark Testa (04:26):

Yeah. People like human connection and it’s, I mean, unless you’re living with a roommate, it does come back down to how do we make our sex enjoyable, fun? How do I get more turned on? Things like that. Right.

Amanda Testa  (04:37):

I mean, I think, yeah, people, I, I mean, I, I, I’m guessing because the purpose of the podcast really is to talk about sex and relationships and help people reengage that fire within them. So I’m, as, I mean, I would imagine that’s one of the reasons why those were some popular episodes, because well, listeners thank you for being here, but I’m hoping that you’re loving that content. It looks as if you are, and please, if there is a topic or a something that you loved for me to talk about, or someone who you’d love for me to interview, let me know, because I know I, I ask this in the podcast often, but please reach out, email me info@amandatesta.com and share, I love getting your insights. And I love having those conversations with my listeners. Cause I feel like I get such good feedback and inspiration from you all. Yes.

Mark Testa (05:23):

Yeah. So along those lines, yeah. The feedback would be awesome. Is there a, a lack of conversation around some topic that, you know, you think should be talked about more, or maybe you’ve talked about it a little bit, but is there something that really should be brought more to the forefront?

Amanda Testa  (05:44):

Well, I mean, I think that’s the whole purpose of this podcast is talking about sex and all these taboo subjects, because, you know, as Brene Brown would say, when you shine a light on shame, it becomes less, less paralyzing. You know, it’s, you have to bring a light to these things and talk about them because when you do it just frees you and I do feel like there’s such a stigma. There’s so much shame around sexuality. There’s a lot there. You know, people often struggle in silence or they’re afraid to reach out or think there’s nothing that can be done or, you know, all these things and or we just get stuck into the routine of life and don’t think we deserve it or don’t have the time or feel like we don’t wanna make the time or whatever it is. There’s a million things. But I do feel like having the conversation about sex is so key and it’s a, it’s not an easy one to have. Yeah. For a lot of my clients that I talk to. Right. It’s like not an easy thing to talk about in a relationship sometimes. So my intention here is to hopefully give you lots of no tools in which to do that and to feel more comfortable talking about topics that might feel hard.

Mark Testa (06:47):

Yeah. That’s great. I think you’ve done a great job of that. That’s good. I I’ve heard a few conversations over here which one of the, but you, you know, hundred 99 was the most juiciest kind of topic or, or juiciest guest. I’m thinking of one person, but I’m curious who you who you might have, like, like, wow, that was hot.

Amanda Testa  (07:12):

I don’t know. There’s a lot of good ones. I bet I know who you’re thinking of. Cuz we love this woman, our friend Susan Bratton. Right. That’s true. So of right. She always has really juicy. She’s been on the podcast, like I don’t know, three or four times, but she always has really like her. Just her approach is always very fun and you know, like anything, these are learned skills often. And so we just often don’t have the, the education. And so I love her hands on techniques too. Really amp up things in the bedroom.

Mark Testa (07:41):

Yeah.

Amanda Testa  (07:42):

She’s fun. So I have a lot of episodes with Susan and in this show notes, I’ll share all these episodes that we’re referring to. So if you haven’t listened to those yet, you can make sure to do so

Mark Testa (07:51):

Wonderful. On the flip side of that coin, what, what was one of the harder topics to discuss and maybe be, cuz you’re very transparent and you know, none of it’s really taboo to you. None of it’s really, you know, shrouded in any sort of secrecy or shame. Maybe you don’t have one, but did you interview anyone? Did you have a conversation that was either difficult to get started or difficult to go deeper into or just, just maybe a topic that’s difficult for people to talk about?

Amanda Testa  (08:24):

Hmm.

Mark Testa (08:27):

I mean, do you hear that Amanda

Amanda Testa  (08:28):

Test it? I know I’m just trying to think like what,

Mark Testa (08:30):

Without an answer, without words,

Amanda Testa  (08:33):

You know, I, you know, maybe one thing that is I don’t have as much personal experiences is, you know, this stage in the game, in my life, I’m very happy in our relationship and feel very content and satisfied and fulfilled with our long term monogamous relationship. And I’m grateful for that. And I know that so I don’t have as much personal experience in polyamory or ethical, non monogamy or those types of topics. So those, I mean, I’m very open to learning and I’m always love sharing that because you know, everyone has their own flavor of what they’re into. And so I always want to you know, talk with all different types of experts and people with lots of experience. So I just personally don’t, can’t speak to that as much from my own experience, but I do, I would say maybe those might be harder ones to talk about. Yeah. For me.

Mark Testa (09:19):

Right.

Amanda Testa  (09:21):

Not that I, you know, just because I lack that personal journey in there,

Mark Testa (09:26):

Is there one episode where you got this big, like aha kind of moment or a big learning that, you know, from one of your guests that Just open your eyes to something different?

Amanda Testa  (09:40):

I don’t know about an aha, but mostly it’s just like feeling so inspired and just every single expert I talk to is like, yes. I mean, this is such important information and it’s just not talked about enough. And I love that we’re doing that here because I think that’s the, the ahas that every time I talk to anyone, it just inspires me that the importance of this work.

Mark Testa (10:06):

Right. I agree with you. How about this one? What, 1, 2, 3 things add as many as you’d like, have you learned from your guests that you’ve brought into your life now we’ll get to another part of that question. What have you learned from your guests that you’ve brought into the bedroom, but are there some learnings that you, you know, picked up from your guests that maybe you brought into your own life in some way as a parent or a spouse or a, a friend or a teacher? Is there something

Amanda Testa  (10:43):

I mean, I feel like a lot, if there’s ever a good tool, then I’m always gonna remember it. But, you know, I think, you know, one of my biggest teachers, a few of my biggest teachers Layla Martin, of course, you know, I did her coaching certification in 2017 and also in am a Senior Teacher and Coach for her team. And just learn so much from her with specifically, with regard to the intentional power of, you know, self-compasion and having a sacred relationship with your sexuality and really the power of intentional self-pleasure and really creating an, sacred drelationship with yourself around it, which is so huge. You know, Rachael Maddox is another one of my mentors. She’s been on the show quite a few times and really around trauma resolution and understanding what that is and kind of some ways to make it less intimidating and more doable and easy, you know, it doesn’t have to be hard all the time. Like work doesn’t always have to be hard. It can be done in a way that feels good to, to your nervous system. And that’s actually the key, that’s the only way it’s gonna work. So I would say, you know, really understanding our anatomy is a huge part of great sex, which is why I love Sheri Winston so much. She’s got such a beautiful way of explaining it. Oh gosh. There’s, it’s, it’s so hard to nail down just a few, but I would say those are some of the, you know

Mark Testa (12:06):

Yeah.

Amanda Testa  (12:06):

The big things.

Mark Testa (12:07):

Yeah. I, I can see all that in your life. The self pleasure, the, just the, and you know, that doesn’t, that that can mean any thing, right? Enjoying chocolate and flowers in a beautiful environment. The anatomy, I, you know, I mean, I, I took anatomy and we did, and I did a lot of anatomy courses, and there’s still, you know, things you can learn and get a better understanding of and visualize. And and I think you’ve done a really good job of doing that, sharing that, teaching that, you know, explaining that, you know, removing any sort of difficulty or uncomfortable nature around it. I mean, it’s anatomy, right? It’s like our nose, our elbow. Why do we feel, why do we have to call it the down the down there, parts the lady parts. And

Amanda Testa  (12:53):

Cause the fact that, you know, there’s only so many, there’s there’s states in this us that still don’t require biologically correct sex education. Right. And that’s a problem. But the other thing too, is just a lot of it we’re, we’re never been taught and there is the problem too, is that, you know, even with regards to education, you know, even a lot of anatomy textbooks, they are inaccurate representations. And sadly to this day, there is still debate of what’s going on in the women’s anatomy, which is one, you know, there’s a lot of great people out there that talk about this one woman who I really love is Jessica Pin, Jessica ann Pin. You can follow her on Instagram. She’s got lots of great info. If you are curious to learn more about the politics behind it all. But you know, I think that’s one of the sad things is there’s just, you know, women’s pleasure has been put to the wayside.

Mark Testa (13:46):

Yeah.

Amanda Testa  (13:47):

And it’s a very penis centered model around sex that we learn, so, right. That’s a problem.

Mark Testa (13:53):

Right. That’s a problem. What, what are a couple things that you learned from some of your guests that you brought into the bedroom that I might not even know about?

Amanda Testa  (14:05):

Well, thankfully you’re such a, a good partner and I feel like we can talk about everything and that’s a huge thing I’m grateful for. Yeah. Can be very vulnerable with one another. But one of the things I think this is such an important thing is just slowing down things slowing down and being able to pause and stop when you need to. I mean, and also just allowing, I mean, this is not necessarily something I’ve learned from my guests, but just that I’ve learned in my work is that letting anything be possible and not thinking it has to look a certain way or be a certain way, but oftentimes more often than not, we’re trying to rush through. And so slowing down is such a huge tip, like whatever you’re doing, do it like five times slower than you normally would. What about 10 times slower than you normally would? And especially for anyone who is pleasing a vulva bodied person, slow it down. Okay. That’s such a huge tip. Start from the outside and work your way in. Don’t go straight for not many people, unless they’re fully aroused sometimes yes, everyone’s different. But a lot of times it, you know, you aroused before there’s touch penetration and that can take up to 45 minutes. And that’s, what’s beautiful about learning about the, you know, the female erectile network and like all the, that goes on there and how to make it desire, penetration and play.

Mark Testa (15:31):

Yeah. Fun things. That’s a, I love, I love it, slowing it down because it just one, it extends the, the pleasure without a doubt. And it builds up desire in a great way. And it culminates in a, in a great way. It lets us, lets us spend more time together. And, and, and, you know, I don’t think this is too much information, but I think one of our most favorite foreplays, at least for me, is just laying naked in bed talking right. Knowing what’s what’s building, but just really spending that almost like 30 minutes, just laying there, chit chatting and touching each other and yeah. You know, really slow it down.

Amanda Testa  (16:15):

We, we like connection.

Mark Testa (16:16):

Yeah. We do. And touch physical

Amanda Testa  (16:18):

Touch. Yeah. A lot of physical touch, lot of connection. And these, the fun thing is, is that, you know, viewing it as playful, like how you can make it playful and fun is a huge part of it. And I’m, I think when we first, when I first started of doing this work, it probably wasn’t as easy in the beginning, but now it’s so much better. It’s been all worth it. Right. Yeah.

Mark Testa (16:42):

Even when, yeah. Right. I remember when you got into this, even some of the things you asked me were, or we talked about were really uncomfortable for me.

Amanda Testa  (16:49):

Like what if you feel okay. Sharing? Yeah. You don’t

Mark Testa (16:53):

Have to, well, you know, I mean, you asked me a couple for a couple months, I think, you know, what’s your kink. And I was just afraid to tell you I was uncomfortable and nobody’d ever asked it was always stuff you kind of kept to yourself.

Amanda Testa  (17:07):

This is such a good thing to mention because I mean, I think that is so important. It is hard to talk about, but if you have like a desire, there’s ways to playfully explore that. Right. And it’s always about like bringing it to the table in a playful way. Like how, if you know how maybe this be a fun, right? The yes, no, maybe yeah. The list going through it. Right. And the funny thing is, is when even, you know, a lot of the things, maybe if the first time you look at one of those lists, you might not even know what they all are, so right. But it’s for fun to just be like, oh yeah, maybe I try that. Yep. Nah, I’m not interested in that one. Yeah. Or maybe I would be under the right circumstances, but let’s not start there.

Mark Testa (17:45):

Right? Yes, no, maybe list we did do that. That was fun. And we landed on a lot of the similar things,

Amanda Testa  (17:50):

But isn’t it fun when you can share your desires and have them met

Mark Testa (17:55):

It’s. Yeah.

Amanda Testa  (17:57):

So good. So

Mark Testa (17:58):

Good.

Amanda Testa  (18:01):

Okay. So what else let’s see here.

Mark Testa (18:04):

Let’s see. What what, what are, what are your top let’s what are your top three downloads? I’m just curious. That’s

Amanda Testa  (18:11):

Good. Well, number one, anatomy arousal in secrets of female pleasure with Sheri Winston.

Mark Testa (18:16):

So that’s interesting. It’s I mean, right. We should know how our body works. You know, I’m in healthcare. I think the biggest problem with healthcare is people don’t know how their body works. And so as much as we think feeding it and exercise is all you need to know. There’s a lot more to it than that. And and that derails people’s health. And so you can’t have much pleasure if you don’t know how to work. The parts

Amanda Testa  (18:40):

It’s so true.

Mark Testa (18:42):

What other one? So true. What other, what’s another one that was a top what’s number two.

Amanda Testa  (18:47):

Number two was how to create epic set and relationships with Layla Martin,

Mark Testa (18:54):

How to create epic sex and relationships because they go together really.

Amanda Testa  (18:59):

I mean, you can also have an awesome sexual relationship with yourself, but that relationship with yourself is important.

Mark Testa (19:05):

Yeah.

Amanda Testa  (19:07):

So, but back to what you were saying about the bodies, I just wanna re just mention one thing on that, which is so true. It’s like, yeah, you’ve got to gotta be able to enjoy your body by knowing how it works. It’s so key for everything and health. And, you know, a lot of my episodes have been around women’s health and wellness, cuz there’s so much, we don’t know about that and how our hormones work and you know, we’ve learned so many false things along the way. So I always love talking about what kind of,umyth busting around that too. Unumber three, secrets to a more satisfying sex, like life with Dr. Emily. Nagoski,

Mark Testa (19:43):

It’s important, right? When you’re in a relationship of any kind of ha if, if it’s not just a roommate and forgive me if I’m saying it wrong right. You want to have sex with your partner and a relationship.

Amanda Testa  (19:58):

Right. And I mean, this, this podcast is, is if you want that right. Not everyone does. Right. That’s totally fine. Yeah. But if you want that, that’s what I am here for, to help you is to have more fun in bed and to have deeper relationships and to, and to love your relationship with your own sexuality and love your sexuality, and have confidence in your body and feel like the gorgeous sex goddess or Godex that you are right to be this Royal sovereign of your own amazing self. So yeah, I’ve had so many great episodes though. I, I just feel grateful to be celebrating 200. So really, and also to thank all of you, that to me is really important because without you all, this would not be here. And so I really am grateful for all of your support and for all of you that have taken the time to rate and review the podcast. Amazing. And if you haven’t yet, that is hugely helpful if you feel called to do so. And if you don’t, that’s fine too. But if you’ve loved the podcast, it would mean the world. If you would write a review and gimme a five star rating and why you love it or why you think people could benefit from listening.

Mark Testa (21:06):

One more question.

Amanda Testa  (21:07):

Yes.

Mark Testa (21:09):

Where would you like to see this go for your next 200 episodes?

Amanda Testa  (21:15):

Yeah. Good question.

Amanda Testa  (21:18):

I think just continuing to bring in great experts and share my own wisdom. That’s one of the things I’ve had a lot of fun doing more recently this past year is doing a lot more solo episodes, which that actually was a growth edge. Cause it felt real easy to interview others, but not so comfortable doing my own solo episodes. Just funny, I think, cuz I like talking to another person. Yeah. So it, it’s just more fun to have a another live human in my presence. But but that too, so that’s kind of what I wanna see is just keeping the conversation fresh and new and innovative and really just meeting the needs of people listening and how I do that more is just with all your great feedback. So I thank you for that. And I so appreciate all of you who email in and just share let’s share what you love about it or what’s touched you. So thank you for that.

Mark Testa (22:16):

Well, thank you for that interview. I appreciate you letting me do that. It was fun talking about it as we were talking about your 200th episodes. So thanks for sharing more about those hundred 99. Yeah. I wish you all the best and I’ll try to schedule myself away from your podcast. So we’re not competing for sound this year.

Amanda Testa  (22:41):

We’re good. We’re good. Well, I that was fun, Mark. Thank you. Thanks for joining me again and thank you all for listening and we will see you very soon for our next episode.

The Benefits of Holistic Sexual Wellness with Taylor Sparks

Benefits of holistic Sexual WellnessWith Taylor Sparks

If you’re ready to enhance your sex life, you’re going to LOVE today’s episode.  I’m your host Amanda Testa, and I’m thrilled to introduce to my guest today, Taylor Sparks.

Taylor (aka Mariposa) is a passionate erotic educator and sex goddess, certified in both holistic aromatherapy and human behavior.  With over a decade of experience in the natural skin care/cosmetics industry, Ms. Sparks launched , one of the largest BIPOC owned online intimacy shops.  Organic Loven specializes in improving adults’ sexual health/wellness and enhancing their sex lives via their organic intimate body products, body-safe sex toy materials, sex-positive books, and erotic educational seminars.Taylor has also become renowned in the adult travel industry and is a powerful public speaker both nationally and internationally. Taylor is socially and environmentally conscious and a strong supporter in all things organic, natural and eco-friendly…including Love.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

In this episode you’ll discover

How Taylor began her career creating chemical free, healthy body products, and that in turn grew into her company Organic Loven, which now boats over 200 brands of products and a worldwide fan base.Why it is so important to understand what is in your intimate body products – what to look out for to avoid irritants and chemicals.What does it take to keep your sex drive humming after 40?How to communicate about your sexual needs.Understanding ethical non monogamy. Taylor shares the scoop on her favorite sex toys and brands to explore at organicloven.comNovel ways to invite in more playfulness in your intimate life.and much more!

JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION ON THIS EPISODE AND MORE IN MY FREE FACEBOOK GROUP, FIND YOUR FEMININE FIRE HERE.

Get 10% off your purchase at OrganicLoven with code FYFF10.  

Organic Loven has fast become one of the largest BIPOC-owned online intimacy shops featuring organic and eco-friendly intimate body products, body-safe sex toys and sex positive books. We assure that people can love, be sexy and never worry that products enhancing their pleasure would do them harm. All lubricants, body washes and condoms available to our subscribers and shoppers are eco-friendly and free from any chemicals. All products labeled “organic” are Certified Organic. All toys are comprised of body-safe, non-porous materials such as medical-grade silicone, stainless steel, glass, sustainable polished wood, or ABS plastic. Whether you are purchasing your first toy or your fifteenth, you can feel confident that products you receive from Organic Loven have been vetted and verified to be truly body-safe. 

Connect with Taylor on instagram HERE.

Follow her on YouTube HERE.

Want more support in bringing your desires to life?  Schedule a confidential heart to heart HERE.

If you liked this episode, please consider giving me a 5 Star Review on Apple Podcasts! It truly does help the podcast grow. 

Bite Size Ways To Transform Your Life with Linda Bonnar

Bite Size Ways To Transform Your Life with Linda Bonnar

Everyone has something in their lives that they’d like to improve, whether that’s managing stress more effectively, developing healthier relationships, building more confidence—the list can be endless. 

The problem is often finding the time to address these issues and then, having done that, knowing the right tools and techniques to use to integrate the solutions into your life. 

The mere thought of change can be overwhelming, but today on the podcast I’m talking with Linda Bonnar, and her mission is to address the root cause of that fear so that you can tackle anything that life throws at you by making simple, easy changes to our everyday routines. 

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

In this episode you’ll discover

What is it that holds us back from overcoming seemingly unsurmountable challenges?Why it only takes a few small changes to make a huge difference, and how it make it easy.How to more easily navigate change in our lives.What is NLP and how does it work?What Impostor Syndrome is, and how it holds people back, and what to do about it. How to stop worrying about what others think of you.A simple formula to apply to your goals that instantly makes them more doable.and much more!

JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION ON THIS EPISODE AND MORE IN MY FREE FACEBOOK GROUP, FIND YOUR FEMININE FIRE HERE.

Linda Bonnar is a Personal & Corporate Coach, Author, Trainer and Educational Wellbeing Consultant based in New York City. Passionate about empowering others to succeed, Linda partners with business executives and future leaders across the globe, to overcome the complexities with regards to people development, talent management and organizational success. Committed to excellence, Linda equips her clients with a range of skills, tools, and techniques to overcome challenges successfully and move forward confidently, allowing them to thrive in life and not just survive the “daily grind”. Linda is an ICF (International Coach Federation) Professional Certified Coach, a Master NLP (Neurolinguistic Programming) Coach & Practitioner and is currently undertaking a diploma in Positive Organisational Psychology. 

As a corporate coach and trainer, Linda has worked with individuals from global companies such as Google, Warner Media, Oliver Wyman, Guardian Wealth Management, Salesforce, and Chevron.

Connect with Linda via her website HERE.

Get her new book, JUST THREE THINGS: Bite-Size Ways to Transform Your Life HERE.

Follow her on Twitter HERE.

Follow her on Instagram HERE.

Want more support in bringing your desires to life?  Schedule a confidential heart to heart HERE.

If you liked this episode, please consider giving me a 5 Star Review on Apple Podcasts! It truly does help the podcast grow. 

Giving Yourself Permission To Have Fun

Giving Yourself Permission To Have FunWith your host Amanda Testa

Do you have a bossy voice inside your head that won’t let you relax, have fun, or follow your whims UNLESS you’ve finished work, folded the laundry, etc etc etc??In this episode I’m sharing how to allow yourself to have more fun, how to luxuriate in the small moments, how to hone your intuition for more inner trust, and how to let go of that mean inner voice. 

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete Transcript Below)

In this episode you’ll discover

How to invite a kinder inner voice to the table. How to hone your intuition, and learn to listen to your needs.How to use your desires as a goal post. How to expand time, and make even 2 minutes feel luxurious. How to create more clarity and choice in your life, and empower your inner Sage.and much more!

JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION ON THIS EPISODE AND MORE IN MY FREE FACEBOOK GROUP, FIND YOUR FEMININE FIRE HERE.

Want more support in bringing your desires to life?  Schedule a confidential heart to heart HERE.

If you liked this episode, please consider giving me a 5 Star Review on Apple Podcasts! It truly does help the podcast grow. 

Amanda Testa (00:04):

Hello, this is your host Amanda Testa. And in today’s podcast, I really want this to be a permission slip for you to do whatever the f#%8 you want to do. I just saw a post from a friend of mine. It was so inspiring to me because I feel like we push ourselves so hard sometimes. And I know for myself, I definitely am still recovering from the type A overachiever type of personality that I was raised to think was the end all be all. And I read this beautiful post from one of my Instagram friends. We actually met through a joint program we were doing with Kelly Diels, who I highly recommend her work. I love Kelly Diels. Anyways, her name is Jane Charlesworth and here is the post. You can follow her on Instagram at @Jane.Charlesworth this quote was just so great because I thought it is resonant, right?

Amanda Testa (01:10):

So this especially can pertain to you if you’re an entrepreneur. But I think in any, in any instance, it’s still important. We talk all the time about being our own bosses, but what if you don’t need a boss at all? What if we ditch the whole idea of bosses, right? Because when you think of the word boss, what comes to mind for you? I mean, I am very grateful to have had an amazing, have had amazing bosses in my career. So I have a really good lived experience in which to, to pull from. And that’s not the case for everyone. Cause I think if you think about boss, boss, oftentimes all kinds of things can come up. Right? Like bossy. What does that mean? It means like demanding, it means,ushort, it means,ucould possibly be someone who’s taking advantage of you or,uI just think of a nine to five, remember how horrible that boss was or just how bosses can sometimes just be really hard on people.

Amanda Testa (02:07):

And what about we just let go of that word and try something different. Right. And so I was thinking about that and I was like, God, that is so true. Right? How hard can we be on ourselves about everything, right? Like I wanna be a good mom or I wanna go be a good parent or I wanna be a good partner. I wanna be a good friend. I wanna be good at my business. I wanna be good at my job. I wanna do all these things. And so we implement these really militant rules upon ourselves sometimes, which is actually gonna, oftentimes does the opposite of what we want it to do. Right. When we’re so hard on ourselves. And we’re so unflexible with ourselves, it can also stop us from really being in charge of our own clarity and choice and you know, feeling like we’ve gotta follow someone else’s guidance all the time or that we don’t know.

Amanda Testa (02:58):

And I really do believe we do know we have so much wisdom. Oftentimes we’ve just been disconnected from that in our own lives. And so how do we reconnect to our own intuition, our own ways? How do we create more clarity and choice with our lives? Right? Because oftentimes when we have had these experiences in our, where we have, I mean, it’s, let’s just be honest. I live in the us and it’s a really big part of our culture is like you’re raised to be successful, be the best make A’s do good in school, do all the activities. So you can get into a good college, get into a good college, make good grades, get a good job, make money, all the things right. Have a family or don’t. Ubut I feel like we gotta open up our definition of what success means and what that looks like and what,ua happy life looks like.

Amanda Testa (03:49):

Cuz it can look a million different ways. It doesn’t have to look like we think it does. What if you’re just happy with the way things are in your life. That is awesome. What if you can just say, you know what, I’m gonna give myself permission to enjoy whatever the I want for the next four days. Just right now, just make that decision. Guess what? For the next four days I’m gonna do what I wanna do. <Laugh> within reason, of course, you know? Right. you don’t wanna hurt anyone. You want it to be in the highest good of all beings. Right. But I think of that, right? Because oftentimes, and this really, I love this one archetype from the ReBloom body of work and I’m also a certified Rebloom trauma resolution coach. That’s from the work of Rachael Maddox and she has developed these seven archetypes, but they really, the intention is, is that as you grow back to your full in bloom self, where you are feeling worthy, where you have sovereign over your own experience, where you feel like you can fully express yourself, where you feel like you can trust your intuition, you have clarity, you have choice, you feel vital, you feel empowered, you know that you belong to yourself to this world, to, to your own being right.

Amanda Testa (04:52):

You can enjoy the pleasures of life and you can co-create to bring goodness to all. I love the Sage because really that’s really around clarity and choice, having a clear sense of who you are, what you know, what you want and what your options are. You make decisions from a place of alignment with your values, right? Your embodied wisdom and your discernment. You’re the validator of your experiences. You also seek healthy interpersonal validation, mirroring and reassurance, and you trust your experiences as true. You know, that your feelings, perspectives, and opinions matter, your clarity, empowers healthy choices. I feel like that’s such a huge permission slip of knowing who you are, what you want. And you make decisions from that place from a place of alignment. And oftentimes in our lives, there are ways that we can have traumatic imprints from being our true number one manipulation control, right?

Amanda Testa (05:47):

Being Gaslight being denied, your experiences, being lied to, you know, having things, withhold it from you being shamed, you know, being monitored, like having super strict parents, perhaps like we, that constantly monitor everything that you did or, you know, having what you do be based on, you know, you be a certain way to get affection or feeling like your affection was withdrawn. If you weren’t a certain way, you know, feeling guilt or you know, a lot of blaming feeling like you weren’t listened to feeling that you were manipulated that you were controlled, right? Those that is the way that we can be have these imprints that affect how we show up. And it can show up in a couple of ways, right? One of the ways is kind of the hypo response, which is more of kind of feeling confused, feeling like you’re blindly, following people, blindly trusting others constantly looking to be validated from others.

Amanda Testa (06:41):

Crippling self-doubt lack of personal moral code, right? You, you feel you’re very drawn possibly to charismatic leaders or desire to be saved by someone who knows what’s going on really not trusting your own own experience. And then the hyperresponsiveness is being hypervigilant, right? Not knowing who you can trust, feeling extremely skeptical about everything. You know, assuming that others are trying to just pull something over on you feeling really stubborn about doing things your own way. If you’re being, being very controlling yourself, trying to control situations trying to control relationships playing games with people emotionally, right? Feeling like you are making up these stories of while things are out to get you, or, you know, really feeling hyper guarded, maybe isolating yourself because of fear. So, you know, these are ways that we can these traumatic imprints that we experience in our lives can show up in really stand in the way of our feelings of clarity, of feelings of choice.

Amanda Testa (07:44):

And so this is where we can do things to strengthen that Sage within us, right? Tuning in to what is your truth, even knowing what that is, what is it that you want, right? What are the boundaries that you need to support yourself? How can you express what you need? How can you create the environment that supports you in tuning into what it is you need, and then being able to make choices and take actions that are in alignment with what you need with your truth, right? Really honoring your own values, your own morality, your own ethics and sharing your truth and ways that can be heard that can be received.

Amanda Testa (08:28):

Right? So really knowing that you can trust your experience, you can trust what you are experiencing in your life to be true. You can trust your own knowledge, that it will guide you to what supports you. Right? You can trust your desires because they really are little guideposts on your path, right? What you want following those desires can really give you so much information about, is this really what I want? Or is it not, right? You, you tune into what you want and you, I love doing the exercise just for like 10 minutes, setting a timer and writing down all your desires. What is it that you want? What is it that I want? What is it that I want? And really just letting yourself go with that exercise. Because oftentimes when you do that, you can tune into what’s beneath the wants, right? What is it that you truly need?

Amanda Testa (09:21):

And so you know, maybe it’s, you know, I want a vacation or I want to have more money or I want to have a better relationship, or I wanna go to dinner with a friend or blah, blah, blah. Right. You’re just writing down all the things you want. I wanna trip to Tahiti, digging in a little deeper about what’s beneath that, right? So maybe if you’re noticing a lot of travel or wanting to escape, like, what is it that you perhaps there are some needs that you’re not speaking, right? Maybe you need to create more boundaries for yourself. So you can feel less burdened that you can feel less overwhelmed. Maybe you need to look in to see like what’s beneath that. Right?

Amanda Testa (10:00):

So if there’s a lot of escapism, then maybe it’s, there’s something that you need with regards to that, you know, needs. You’re not letting yourself have not giving yourself the time and space to meet your needs. And granted all these things take time and practice. So it can be challenging to even tune into what you want. So many times I work with people who have no clue what they want, or it’s so hard for them to connect to their desires because really we, we aren’t often taught that, right. We’re often taught, we please. We do, what’s told of us. We do. What’s asked of us, not whatever the we wanna do. <Laugh> and in some ways you wanna just follow that whim. Like what would this do for me? If I did just take singing lessons, for example, I really wanna take some singing lessons.

Amanda Testa (10:35):

I wanna have fun expressing myself more. So take singing lessons and see how that works out for you. Right. If it’s loving it, if you’re loving it, if you’re feeling like you’re, you’re expressing yourself, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re getting what you need from it. Then that’s a great thing, right. Or maybe you try it and you’re like, yeah, Nope, not for me. See, this is how we know what is our path and what is not by trying things and determining, does this feel in alignment with my needs? Does this feel like it’s supportive for me and making a decision from that place? Right?

Amanda Testa (11:04):

Because it is the desires are such a map for what we want. And so I always love to start with that when I’m working with clients, because desires are such a goalpost, just such a little pebbles upon our path, so to speak. And so the more you’re connected to ’em the more, it’s easier to tune into what you want. And, and honestly, I get it like before you can do that, you really have to know like, what I want is important. My needs matter. I matter, my needs are important. My boundaries are important. I deserve to care for myself. I deserve to have what I want. Right. <affirmative> and that is a process in itself as well. Right. We can all have wounds around these things, but I just love, love, love that potential of just being like, letting this be your permission slip to be like, okay, what are all the things that I’ve heard that I should be doing that I’m like, I don’t wanna do that.

Amanda Testa (11:56):

Nope. Doesn’t feel good to me. I’m done with that. <Laugh> how can I tune into what I do want, how can I follow that whim more often than not because yes, it might not be realistic to follow every single whim that you have, but you could look into, you know, say my whim is that I wanna go rent a hotel room by myself for a week. Well, that’s probably not realistic, but maybe I do need to take two hours and go take a walk with my dog. Or maybe I need to take two hours and just go be by myself <laugh> and wander around, you know, nature or go be with a friend or maybe I just need to make more space to have some breaths that I it’s all my own space maybe at that was maybe as I lock myself in the bathroom for 10 minutes, twice a day and ignore whatever’s happening outside that door and just let it be luscious.

Amanda Testa (12:46):

Let it be nourishing. Let it be just for me, really just up all this space, just for me, I get to have all this 10 minutes just for me. And it feels so good. Maybe it’s two minutes. Maybe that’s all you got, but when you can really expand on that experience, like, ah, how does it feel to have all this time, man? I’m just noticing. Cause I feel into this luxury of time to myself, I just feel my chest just opens up a little bit and I notice, I feel, I feel so much lighter in my shoulders. Like I feel like I’m sitting up straighter and I just love envisioning this vast nothingness. It’s like, I’m looking at a vast open landscape or even just like a whiteboard that’s just clean. There’s nothing on it. Oh, the absence of anything thing to do, but just be. It’s so good.

Amanda Testa (13:43):

I’m just gonna sit in that and let it feel good. It’s nourishing. Oh, even this moment, just noticing how much I need that right now. Then am I allowing myself to receive it? Can I let it in just a little more? Or does that feel too hard? And if so, that’s okay. Like what feels doable? What feels like a doable amount to let in today? Hmm. I’m just enjoying luxuriating in this time. And if that feels resonant for you to enjoy it withme I’ll invite you to do so, or maybe noticing it, this might feel hard for you, like get on with that lady. <Laugh> whatever you’re experiencing is okay.

Amanda Testa (14:50):

And I’m just taking a breath or two here and I’m just gonna slowly bring myself back and think, wow, that was just maybe like two minutes and I feel worlds differently than I did before. So maybe that wasn’t a need that you had, but if there is a need that you have, how can you find a way to put yourself in that experience and let your body experience that? Like I just even feel refreshed and rejuvenated just from that two minutes. So it’s amazing how, and we can just be with what is showing up for us and giving ourselves permission to do that. Things can shift around us. Right. And so just for fun and just for, for the sake of it, I’m wondering if you were to do more of what you wanted over the next few days, what might you do?

Amanda Testa (15:33):

What might you say yes to? What might you say no to, and can, could it be interesting to play around with a, with a softer voice, right? Not having a mean ole boss talking to you, but what if there’s like a softer voice, like a friendly voice, like a loving, caring voice. What might that look like? Who might sound like, or what could it be like a loving, warm, accepting, forgiving, loving guide who just accepts you exactly as you are and is offering you support. How might that voice talk to you and perhaps noticing maybe what is something that you, you are wanting to do that you maybe are a little harsh on yourself about how might you invite a more kind tone to that?

Amanda Testa (16:49):

Hmm. And this can show up in so many areas of our lives, right? In all the areas, where are you trying to please, or trying to push yourself beyond what feels right. And how could you find perhaps a more doable way to approach it? What feels fun? How can, how could it feel exciting to explore this? How could it feel doable? How could it feel inviting? How can it feel yummy? Just letting those be little, little nuggets for you to digest as they resonate, take what resonates and leave. What doesn’t, which just having fun, letting this be your permission, slip, to just have tune in and, and give yourself what you need, whatever that looks like in some,

Speaker 2 (17:49):

In some way over the next four days. And I’d love to hear how it goes for you. So please feel free to let me know. You can send me an email and just keep me posted amanda@amandatesta.com. And I’m sending you so much love as you move into this week and we will see you next week.

Amanda Testa (00:04):

Hello, this is your host Amanda Testa. And in today’s podcast, I really want this to be a permission slip for you to do whatever the fuck you want to do. I just saw a post from a friend of mine. It was so inspiring to me because I feel like we push ourselves so hard sometimes. And I know for myself, I definitely am still recovering from the type A overachiever type of personality that I was raised to think was the end all be all. And I read this beautiful post from one of my Instagram friends. We actually met through a joint program we were doing with Kelly Diels, who I highly recommend her work. I love Kelly Diels. Anyways, her name is Jane Charlesworth and here is the post. You can follow her on Instagram at @Jane.Charlesworth this quote was just so great because I thought it is resonant, right?

Amanda Testa (01:10):

So this especially can pertain to you if you’re an entrepreneur. But I think in any, in any instance, it’s still important. We talk all the time about being our own bosses, but what if you don’t need a boss at all? What if we ditch the whole idea of bosses, right? Because when you think of the word boss, what comes to mind for you? I mean, I am very grateful to have had an amazing, have had amazing bosses in my career. So I have a really good lived experience in which to, to pull from. And that’s not the case for everyone. Cause I think if you think about boss, boss, oftentimes all kinds of things can come up. Right? Like bossy. What does that mean? It means like demanding, it means,ushort, it means,ucould possibly be someone who’s taking advantage of you or,uI just think of a nine to five, remember how horrible that boss was or just how bosses can sometimes just be really hard on people.

Amanda Testa (02:07):

And what about we just let go of that word and try something different. Right. And so I was thinking about that and I was like, God, that is so true. Right? How hard can we be on ourselves about everything, right? Like I wanna be a good mom or I wanna go be a good parent or I wanna be a good partner. I wanna be a good friend. I wanna be good at my business. I wanna be good at my job. I wanna do all these things. And so we implement these really militant rules upon ourselves sometimes, which is actually gonna, oftentimes does the opposite of what we want it to do. Right. When we’re so hard on ourselves. And we’re so unflexible with ourselves, it can also stop us from really being in charge of our own clarity and choice and you know, feeling like we’ve gotta follow someone else’s guidance all the time or that we don’t know.

Amanda Testa (02:58):

And I really do believe we do know we have so much wisdom. Oftentimes we’ve just been disconnected from that in our own lives. And so how do we reconnect to our own intuition, our own ways? How do we create more clarity and choice with our lives? Right? Because oftentimes when we have had these experiences in our, where we have, I mean, it’s, let’s just be honest. I live in the us and it’s a really big part of our culture is like you’re raised to be successful, be the best make A’s do good in school, do all the activities. So you can get into a good college, get into a good college, make good grades, get a good job, make money, all the things right. Have a family or don’t. Ubut I feel like we gotta open up our definition of what success means and what that looks like and what,ua happy life looks like.

Amanda Testa (03:49):

Cuz it can look a million different ways. It doesn’t have to look like we think it does. What if you’re just happy with the way things are in your life. That is awesome. What if you can just say, you know what, I’m gonna give myself permission to enjoy whatever the I want for the next four days. Just right now, just make that decision. Guess what? For the next four days I’m gonna do what I wanna do. <Laugh> within reason, of course, you know? Right. you don’t wanna hurt anyone. You want it to be in the highest good of all beings. Right. But I think of that, right? Because oftentimes, and this really, I love this one archetype from the ReBloom body of work and I’m also a certified Rebloom trauma resolution coach. That’s from the work of Rachael Maddox and she has developed these seven archetypes, but they really, the intention is, is that as you grow back to your full in bloom self, where you are feeling worthy, where you have sovereign over your own experience, where you feel like you can fully express yourself, where you feel like you can trust your intuition, you have clarity, you have choice, you feel vital, you feel empowered, you know that you belong to yourself to this world, to, to your own being right.

Amanda Testa (04:52):

You can enjoy the pleasures of life and you can co-create to bring goodness to all. I love the Sage because really that’s really around clarity and choice, having a clear sense of who you are, what you know, what you want and what your options are. You make decisions from a place of alignment with your values, right? Your embodied wisdom and your discernment. You’re the validator of your experiences. You also seek healthy interpersonal validation, mirroring and reassurance, and you trust your experiences as true. You know, that your feelings, perspectives, and opinions matter, your clarity, empowers healthy choices. I feel like that’s such a huge permission slip of knowing who you are, what you want. And you make decisions from that place from a place of alignment. And oftentimes in our lives, there are ways that we can have traumatic imprints from being our true number one manipulation control, right?

Amanda Testa (05:47):

Being Gaslight being denied, your experiences, being lied to, you know, having things, withhold it from you being shamed, you know, being monitored, like having super strict parents, perhaps like we, that constantly monitor everything that you did or, you know, having what you do be based on, you know, you be a certain way to get affection or feeling like your affection was withdrawn. If you weren’t a certain way, you know, feeling guilt or you know, a lot of blaming feeling like you weren’t listened to feeling that you were manipulated that you were controlled, right? Those that is the way that we can be have these imprints that affect how we show up. And it can show up in a couple of ways, right? One of the ways is kind of the hypo response, which is more of kind of feeling confused, feeling like you’re blindly, following people, blindly trusting others constantly looking to be validated from others.

Amanda Testa (06:41):

Crippling self-doubt lack of personal moral code, right? You, you feel you’re very drawn possibly to charismatic leaders or desire to be saved by someone who knows what’s going on really not trusting your own own experience. And then the hyperresponsiveness is being hypervigilant, right? Not knowing who you can trust, feeling extremely skeptical about everything. You know, assuming that others are trying to just pull something over on you feeling really stubborn about doing things your own way. If you’re being, being very controlling yourself, trying to control situations trying to control relationships playing games with people emotionally, right? Feeling like you are making up these stories of while things are out to get you, or, you know, really feeling hyper guarded, maybe isolating yourself because of fear. So, you know, these are ways that we can these traumatic imprints that we experience in our lives can show up in really stand in the way of our feelings of clarity, of feelings of choice.

Amanda Testa (07:44):

And so this is where we can do things to strengthen that Sage within us, right? Tuning in to what is your truth, even knowing what that is, what is it that you want, right? What are the boundaries that you need to support yourself? How can you express what you need? How can you create the environment that supports you in tuning into what it is you need, and then being able to make choices and take actions that are in alignment with what you need with your truth, right? Really honoring your own values, your own morality, your own ethics and sharing your truth and ways that can be heard that can be received.

Amanda Testa (08:28):

Right? So really knowing that you can trust your experience, you can trust what you are experiencing in your life to be true. You can trust your own knowledge, that it will guide you to what supports you. Right? You can trust your desires because they really are little guideposts on your path, right? What you want following those desires can really give you so much information about, is this really what I want? Or is it not, right? You, you tune into what you want and you, I love doing the exercise just for like 10 minutes, setting a timer and writing down all your desires. What is it that you want? What is it that I want? What is it that I want? And really just letting yourself go with that exercise. Because oftentimes when you do that, you can tune into what’s beneath the wants, right? What is it that you truly need?

Amanda Testa (09:21):

And so you know, maybe it’s, you know, I want a vacation or I want to have more money or I want to have a better relationship, or I wanna go to dinner with a friend or blah, blah, blah. Right. You’re just writing down all the things you want. I wanna trip to Tahiti, digging in a little deeper about what’s beneath that, right? So maybe if you’re noticing a lot of travel or wanting to escape, like, what is it that you perhaps there are some needs that you’re not speaking, right? Maybe you need to create more boundaries for yourself. So you can feel less burdened that you can feel less overwhelmed. Maybe you need to look in to see like what’s beneath that. Right?

Amanda Testa (10:00):

So if there’s a lot of escapism, then maybe it’s, there’s something that you need with regards to that, you know, needs. You’re not letting yourself have not giving yourself the time and space to meet your needs. And granted all these things take time and practice. So it can be challenging to even tune into what you want. So many times I work with people who have no clue what they want, or it’s so hard for them to connect to their desires because really we, we aren’t often taught that, right. We’re often taught, we please. We do, what’s told of us. We do. What’s asked of us, not whatever the we wanna do. <Laugh> and in some ways you wanna just follow that whim. Like what would this do for me? If I did just take singing lessons, for example, I really wanna take some singing lessons.

Amanda Testa (10:35):

I wanna have fun expressing myself more. So take singing lessons and see how that works out for you. Right. If it’s loving it, if you’re loving it, if you’re feeling like you’re, you’re expressing yourself, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re getting what you need from it. Then that’s a great thing, right. Or maybe you try it and you’re like, yeah, Nope, not for me. See, this is how we know what is our path and what is not by trying things and determining, does this feel in alignment with my needs? Does this feel like it’s supportive for me and making a decision from that place? Right?

Amanda Testa (11:04):

Because it is the desires are such a map for what we want. And so I always love to start with that when I’m working with clients, because desires are such a goalpost, just such a little pebbles upon our path, so to speak. And so the more you’re connected to ’em the more, it’s easier to tune into what you want. And, and honestly, I get it like before you can do that, you really have to know like, what I want is important. My needs matter. I matter, my needs are important. My boundaries are important. I deserve to care for myself. I deserve to have what I want. Right. <affirmative> and that is a process in itself as well. Right. We can all have wounds around these things, but I just love, love, love that potential of just being like, letting this be your permission slip to be like, okay, what are all the things that I’ve heard that I should be doing that I’m like, I don’t wanna do that.

Amanda Testa (11:56):

Nope. Doesn’t feel good to me. I’m done with that. <Laugh> how can I tune into what I do want, how can I follow that whim more often than not because yes, it might not be realistic to follow every single whim that you have, but you could look into, you know, say my whim is that I wanna go rent a hotel room by myself for a week. Well, that’s probably not realistic, but maybe I do need to take two hours and go take a walk with my dog. Or maybe I need to take two hours and just go be by myself <laugh> and wander around, you know, nature or go be with a friend or maybe I just need to make more space to have some breaths that I it’s all my own space maybe at that was maybe as I lock myself in the bathroom for 10 minutes, twice a day and ignore whatever’s happening outside that door and just let it be luscious.

Amanda Testa (12:46):

Let it be nourishing. Let it be just for me, really just up all this space, just for me, I get to have all this 10 minutes just for me. And it feels so good. Maybe it’s two minutes. Maybe that’s all you got, but when you can really expand on that experience, like, ah, how does it feel to have all this time, man? I’m just noticing. Cause I feel into this luxury of time to myself, I just feel my chest just opens up a little bit and I notice, I feel, I feel so much lighter in my shoulders. Like I feel like I’m sitting up straighter and I just love envisioning this vast nothingness. It’s like, I’m looking at a vast open landscape or even just like a whiteboard that’s just clean. There’s nothing on it. Oh, the absence of anything thing to do, but just be. It’s so good.

Amanda Testa (13:43):

I’m just gonna sit in that and let it feel good. It’s nourishing. Oh, even this moment, just noticing how much I need that right now. Then am I allowing myself to receive it? Can I let it in just a little more? Or does that feel too hard? And if so, that’s okay. Like what feels doable? What feels like a doable amount to let in today? Hmm. I’m just enjoying luxuriating in this time. And if that feels resonant for you to enjoy it withme I’ll invite you to do so, or maybe noticing it, this might feel hard for you, like get on with that lady. <Laugh> whatever you’re experiencing is okay.

Amanda Testa (14:50):

And I’m just taking a breath or two here and I’m just gonna slowly bring myself back and think, wow, that was just maybe like two minutes and I feel worlds differently than I did before. So maybe that wasn’t a need that you had, but if there is a need that you have, how can you find a way to put yourself in that experience and let your body experience that? Like I just even feel refreshed and rejuvenated just from that two minutes. So it’s amazing how, and we can just be with what is showing up for us and giving ourselves permission to do that. Things can shift around us. Right. And so just for fun and just for, for the sake of it, I’m wondering if you were to do more of what you wanted over the next few days, what might you do?

Amanda Testa (15:33):

What might you say yes to? What might you say no to, and can, could it be interesting to play around with a, with a softer voice, right? Not having a mean ole boss talking to you, but what if there’s like a softer voice, like a friendly voice, like a loving, caring voice. What might that look like? Who might sound like, or what could it be like a loving, warm, accepting, forgiving, loving guide who just accepts you exactly as you are and is offering you support. How might that voice talk to you and perhaps noticing maybe what is something that you, you are wanting to do that you maybe are a little harsh on yourself about how might you invite a more kind tone to that?

Amanda Testa (16:49):

Hmm. And this can show up in so many areas of our lives, right? In all the areas, where are you trying to please, or trying to push yourself beyond what feels right. And how could you find perhaps a more doable way to approach it? What feels fun? How can, how could it feel exciting to explore this? How could it feel doable? How could it feel inviting? How can it feel yummy? Just letting those be little, little nuggets for you to digest as they resonate, take what resonates and leave. What doesn’t, which just having fun, letting this be your permission, slip, to just have tune in and, and give yourself what you need, whatever that looks like in some,

Speaker 2 (17:49):

In some way over the next four days. And I’d love to hear how it goes for you. So please feel free to let me know. You can send me an email and just keep me posted amanda@amandatesta.com. And I’m sending you so much love as you move into this week and we will see you next week.

About Amanda

I’m Amanda Testa.

I’m a Sex, Love and Embodiment Coach and founder of Find Your Feminine Fire.

My methods bridge ancient tantric tools combined with the latest in neuroscience to help high performing women ditch the guilt and unworthiness and embody confidence, radiance and vitality in all areas of their lives.

If you’re ready to stop feeling like an imposter in your own body (and business, and life), I’m here to help.

Together, we’re going to light your fire so that you can feel tuned in and turned on about every area of your life again.

Yes, it’s totally possible.

And yes, it’s so totally time.

15 Minute Sensuality Activation HERE

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