That Sucked, Now What? Finding Joy After Chaos With Dr. Neeta Bhushan
You know those awful, terrible, sucker-punch moments in life? The ones that knock you down, burn you up, or make you cringe so hard you wish it was all a bad dream?
Probably–because we all do. These epic, messy, oh-no-oh-crap moments of chaos are just part of life–yet, as Dr. Neeta Bhushan shows us, they're also beautiful opportunities for change.
In this week's episode I'm talking with Dr. Neeta about how to embrace the suck–and in doing so, break through to lasting, audacious resilience.
You'll learn why it's so hard to get back up when stuff goes down, how four core components of your life shape your individual Bounce Factor, and how to navigate the five stages of the Fly Forward framework through Falling, Igniting, Rising, Magnifying, and on to Thriving.
Listen in and share with a friend who you know will love this episode.
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Complete transcript below.
In this episode you'll discover
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As co-founder of the Global Grit Institute, a mental health training platform for leaders and coaches, co-founder of the Dharma Coaching Institute, training thousands to live their best lives, and a thriving coach in her own right, Neeta Bhushan has helped thousands of people move past their heartbreaks, failures, and disappointments. And after years of research into human behavior, observing people in their worst and best moments, being a mother of two small children, and failing more than a few times herself, Neeta knows what it takes to get back up no matter what bowled you over. Her new book, That Sucked, Now What? is a real-talk guide to personal growth that draws on and embraces the suck–and helps you break through to lasting, audacious resilience.
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EPISODE 251: with Dr. Neeta
[Fun, Empowering Music]
Amanda Testa: Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex, love, and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex, love, and relationships, and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome!
If you have ever gone through a life transition, and something really challenging and sucky happened, and you're finding yourself on the other side being like, “Okay, now what?” I think that many of us can relate to this type of experience, and I’m really excited because, today, I have a very special guest who’s gonna share more about how to thrive after transition, along with a lot of other really great things we’re gonna dive into today.
So, welcome to Dr. Neeta Bhushan, who is going to be talking with us around her new book That Sucked. Now What? as well as her framework of bouncing back and really how you can do that. So, welcome so much. Thank you so much for being here, Dr. Neeta, and if you wouldn't mind, I’d love to hear a little bit more about kind of your story and why this work is such a passion for you.
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Oh, wow. Yes, thank you so much, Amanda. I really appreciate it. Yeah, so, I was born and raised in Chicago to immigrant parents. My father was from India. My mom was from the Philippines. You know, I’ve had a lot of expectations that were put on me. My parents wanted the American dream. They both came from different places in the world, and I grew up having to have these expectations on myself that were obligations. I was the oldest daughter out of three of us, and this idea of academic drive and success and all of the stereotypes that you would ever think of an Asian immigrant family, yeah, that was definitely my household.
So, as I got into my older years and I had two younger brothers, we would definitely get into this season of life where I’d have to grow up really fast.
So, at ten years old, I became a child caretaker. My mom was battling breast cancer at the time, and, you know, with immigrant households, many times you come to The States and you're kind of in survival mode, right? You want to keep up with the Joneses, you want to belong, and you want to fit in. And so, I was doing piano classes, like, all of these things, dance classes, all these cultural things. So, it was like doing, doing, doing, but also, we had an elephant in the room. My mom was dying of cancer, and it was a lot of emotions. It was really a lot for my father, and I would, then, go on for six years like this growing up with a lot of the caretaking, a lot of the responsibilities, and also, trying to fulfill my duties at home, getting straight A’s, getting all the accolades, all the achievements, etcetera.
And then I would lose my mom at 16. I would lose my brother a year later to a severe sudden asthma attack, and then two years after that I would, then, lose my dad.
So, within that period of five years, and, ultimately, from 10 to 19, I would lose 3 members of my immediate family. So, it was definitely a lot, and I was left to, then, raise my youngest brother who was 14 at the time. And so, really, through that survival mode, I’m entering my 20s with all this fervor and ignition of, “Okay, well, that sucked. Now what?” And for me, the “now what” part at that point of my life was, “All right, I don't want anybody to feel bad for me. I do not want the pity. I want to just belong.” Fitting in was a huge thing for me at that point, so I did whatever it took to just have this quote-unquote “normal” life.
I went on, got married, and then, of course, at the end of my 20s they call it the Saturn Return. I was actually having the biggest awakening of my life when I found myself in this very toxic relationship, and I had to get out.
And so, that was really the beginning of my healing journey because, really, facing a lot of the demons that I had shoved under a rug -- I had put it in a closet, packed it up, tightly wound it, sat on it, and it rose up to the surface in such a big way, so big that I finally fell, and I finally broke down, and I finally let it all out, and I finally began to grieve, and I finally began my healing journey and my grieving process of healing the little girl that just wanted love and attention and support and all of the things that she couldn't have because she had to grow up so early.
And so, that took me through another decade of healing, unraveling, and unlearning because, on the outside, I was materially successful. I had an incredible career that I had built. I was a cosmetic dentist. I had all of the trappings of success before 30 and then slowly and steadily started to unravel it, and I sold my first business.
I retired from dentistry, and I really wanted to chart what that would look like, so I spent a lot of time with healers, shamans, traveling the world, really understanding and interviewing people on what they thought success was. And, for me, it was also to gain confidence and clarity on, okay, what are the throughlines or the themes in my life, and that was really resilience and grit. And so, I went on to write my very first book, Emotional Grit.
And from that point, it generally took me to a place of making peace with a lot of the stories that I was carrying on in my past and also, then, arriving to finding love again and finding my now husband and entering into this next chapter of my life which was motherhood. And it was also embracing the duality of the chaotic times, the messy moments that we all go through and really coming up with a process of how I show up in the world and helping people in this stage of my life, which is through talks, through many of our companies (I run three different companies), as well as being able to speak to you, Amanda, and share stories like this.
Amanda Testa: First of all, I really just want to honor all that you've been through and all that you've held in your life and just witness that, and also knowing that how everything sometimes comes back at a time maybe when we were thinking we’ve moved past all this and we were in a great place, like you mentioned. You have all these material things, everything's going well, but all these signs are coming and just all of the things that are requiring deeper support and deeper healing and just the journey that you went on to try to find that and how you’ve come up with these amazing frameworks, too, from your experience and that you are able to now help others. And so, celebrating you and all that you are doing, too.
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Mm, thank you. Thank you. I receive that, for sure.
Amanda Testa: And so, I’m wondering when it comes to what it really takes to help people have this resilience and the framework to bounce back, can you talk a little bit more about kind of what you’ve created around that?
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Yeah, so, one of the frameworks as I put my research hat on because I was a psychology major in college, and, before I went into dentistry, what I really loved is really understanding and being curious about the patterns and the why that we do things. And what I’ve recognized in this work is there are four parts to somebody’s bounce factor, and their bounce factor is their ability to bounce back after tough moments (after a break-up, after a heartbreak, after a divorce, after a sucky moment, after they didn’t get the proposal or they didn't get the promotion, after they went on and they tried to share their thoughts with a new audience for the first time or maybe share a pitch with somebody for the first time, and they heard crickets). And so, I think that it comes down to four different areas.
The first one is your upbringing. I share a lot about my upbringing, a lot about my story, and the reason why I do that is really to give context but also for you and your listeners to really understand, well, perhaps you are picking the same types of people in your life. Perhaps it was the same kinds of friendships that were toxic or that betrayed you in some way. What was actually missing? Whose love were you actually yearning for, right? So, to look at the upbringing of where you're at because those things can't be changed, but we can actually make peace with it. And so, that’s the first part is understanding your upbringing. How were women viewed in your life when you were younger, right?
Who were your very first relationships? Did you have a good relationship with your mom or dad, aunt, uncle who were in your life, right? Who were those big caretakers that you were longing for attention? I know that in many cultures, a lot of times women can't speak up or, especially in Asian culture, we can't even voice our opinion. It’s very much like, “Listen to the elder.” And so, how did that, then, play a role in how you're showing up now or how you take on big risks, how you stretch yourself, how you challenge yourself, right? So, again, making peace with that upbringing piece is huge.
Then we get into the second part which is how often are you exposed to good stress and your current environment because your current environment you can change, and I think in the last few years, we’ve been in this bubble of complacency because we’ve had to be in our homes and things like that, so a lot of times, we’re getting used to kind of the five-o’clock Netflix ‘til nine o’clock or what have you, and we’re not really stretching ourselves because we’ve been used to a certain way of being with one another.
And so, how can you actually add more good stress to your life? And something as simple as that (which I talk about in the book and I give a whole list of resources on how to start) is it could be taking a cold shower for ten seconds, increasing that factor. Why a cold shower? Well, we know studies have shown that cold water wakes up our cells and gives good blood flow, circulation, all of the things, but who really likes a cold shower? I mean, nobody, really. We have to train for it, and so, that’s just one example.
But other examples could be having a difficult conversation with somebody that you've been putting off, being able to share, “Hey, this is not gonna work for me,” and being honest and truthful about that. For a lot of people that’s like, “Ah! Oh no, why are you gonna test me like that?” It could also be saying no, enforcing your boundaries and what your boundaries would look like because, for a lot of us, we’re people pleasers. We want to be liked. And so, how to actually evoke or practice that good stress -- and it could even be going to a networking event and introducing yourself to two or three people that you don't already know, and that can also be jarring for a lot of people but being able to stretch yourself so that you can actually expand into that next evolution.
The third part of this is really getting into your emotional capacity and allowing yourself to feel. A lot of times when we go through tough moments in our life, we bury them just like how I shared in the beginning of this story. I put it in a box, I put it in a closet, and I buried it, and I packed all of my layers of clothing and clothes so that I wouldn't have to go through the depths in those dark places. But what if you are able to unpack that? What if you are able to literally open that closet door and take out all of those old clothes that no longer fit you but really peel back and open that Pandora’s box and really say, “Wow, that sucked, and that really, really sucked,” and to sit with whatever the discomforting emotions that could come up around it.
When I talk about “that sucked, now what,” it’s not just to passively move onto the next. No, it’s a catchy phrase, and I’m glad I got your attention, but it’s to sit with, not in the victim state and not the victor state, but it’s that vulnerability place of, okay, acknowledging what was the hurt, where it hurt, where it’s actually feeling weird or uncomfortable in your body, and literally sitting with it for a second or so. I actually go through a process of how to really process your emotions when you're going through a tough time. It’s all in the book, and actually for your listeners, when they actually pre-order a copy of the book from thatsuckednowwhat.com, you can actually get my free 40-page guidebook that actually takes you through the processes of emotions (like, what are you actually feeling, how to internalize it, how to hold it, when to let it go, how to release it properly so we’re not sitting in the suck for too long, but we actually can take action as a result).
The third part is that emotional capacity - can you stretch yourself to feel some of these uncomfortable feelings and make peace with it.
Then the fourth factor is your self-awareness, and this is huge. This is huge for anyone listening right now who is thinking, “All right, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do?” But many times, how can you be? How can we just be in the moment, and how can we notice if we can just do a quick check or a quick body scan, what is feeling out of alignment? How can we integrate the parts of us that maybe we were rejecting, that maybe we didn't want to feel, that maybe we wanted to leave in the closet but now they're there, and how can we love the parts of ourself that still need a little extra love and attention but, perhaps, maybe you can call on it when you are feeling tender or you are needing a little bit more courage or bravery from yourself to say, “All right. I can go through this one more meeting. I can stand up to my boss. I can share the uncomfortable thing.”
But notice it in your body when you feel like you're being stretched, when you feel like you're being taken advantage of, when you feel that this person is betraying you, when you feel that your boss is requiring more from you, notice where that sits and how that is either in alignment with you or no longer in alignment. That is radical self-awareness. That is the fourth piece of literally knowing, okay, checking in with yourself if this is a heck yes or a no.
Amanda Testa: Ah, so good. You know, those deeper explorations are so important, and even just being aware. So often people don't love being in their body, right? They struggle to be in their body and to feel the sensations and notice what’s happening, and it’s such an important thing to tune into, and I love how you talk about just increasing those good stressors so that it actually increases your capacity to hold those things, to feel the things that are uncomfortable, that are so important to process, like you say, and integrate those things that are so important.
And so, I’m wondering, too, for people that might be listening that are maybe tender right now or they're kind of in the midst of something or kind of I think sometimes, too, when people are having a really hard time, they know what to do but they can't do the things, right? So, what strategies can you have to help people in that state?
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Oh, yes, this is a great question. So, if you are in what I call the suck, right, we want to embrace the suck, and I want you to even just (if you're one to journal, this is a great journaling exercise that I can leave with your listeners) take your journal or take your phone or something to write with but list out what is it that you're actually feeling right now. What is it that you're feeling?
What emotion is that big emotion that you are experiencing right now, whether it’s feeling hurt, whether it’s feeling sad, depressed, anxious, overwhelmed, stressed. What is that feeling? Then I want you to think of, okay, where do you usually feel that tension? Where do you feel that tension in your body? Some of us feel it as like a tension headache on the sides of our head. Some of us feel it in our hearts, that heavy weight in our hearts. Some of us feel it in our guts where sometimes maybe you have to go to the bathroom a couple times, and that’s actually our gut telling you that, “All right, there's a little bit of that overwhelm, a little bit of that anxiety,” but really pay attention to what is it that your body needs at this moment. Does it need to sit on the couch and lay on the couch? What is it that you need in order to feel nourished? This is a beautiful self-care practice. You can actually journal all of this out.
Finally, who is it? Maybe it’s a person. Maybe it’s just time. Maybe it’s you sitting and looking at the mirror or maybe it’s a physical representation of just holding yourself and hugging yourself. But how can you give yourself that nourishment, that love, that support, and to literally make out that list. So, maybe it could look like walking in your garden. Maybe it could look like walking around the block. Maybe it could be as simple as if you're in the middle of a city or maybe in the suburbs, finding the flowers as you're walking by, and right around the time of fall, there may not be many flowers, but it allows you to be present, and that’s the beauty in this exercise is allowing you to be present with what can feel nourishing. It could be as simple as lighting up a candle. It could be as simple as drawing a bath for yourself and giving that intentionality of I see you, I’m with you, I’m gonna hold you.
And I have many of these types of journal prompts and exercises that are also in the book that are also actually in the free guidebook that I have for those of you who purchase a book today at thatsuckednowwhat.com along with a five-day healing practice to start healing some of the relationships, especially in relationships, our interpersonal dynamics are one of the greatest ways to really grow ourselves, and most of us shy away from those big conventions. Most of us do not like confrontation. Most of us want to put a blanket over our heads and pretend that it never happened. And so, then, we have these negative charges that we’re not clearing because we’re so afraid of what is happening. So, I take you through five days of being able to heal. It’s a full healing practice and journey to heal, not only your relationships (that’s day one), but also how to invite grit and grace in your life and build that resilience, how to invite abundance in your life after you’ve healed those relationships so that you can have more courageous and brave conversations, and then finally, on the last day, we go into how to connect back to yourself.
And so, doing rituals just like how we just discovered here would be an amazing way, so, yes, so all of the juiciness in this five-day healing practice that you get for free when you purchase the book.
Amanda Testa: I love that. It’s so key when you're in those moments to find those inner resources, and sometimes it can be hard. So I love that, you know, making your list of the things that support you and doing those things. One of my teachers (and I love this) calls it the full exhale list, everything that makes your body go [Exhales] and write all those things down because sometimes we forget, especially when we’re having a hard time.
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Especially.
Amanda Testa: One of the things, too, I wanted to ask about, because I feel like we can do a lot for our own selves but also healing in community is so key and important, having supportive people around you, and I’d love if you would share a little bit about some of the ways that you can create and build that supportive group around you during tough moments.
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Yeah, so I call it your support soul posse. We all have them. They're all around us. Sometimes they're the ones that you shun away. They're the ones that are checking in on you when you know you're going through a sucky time. They're the ones that are really wanting to be there for you. They want to support you. And so, this is the time to receive, especially if you're the one that’s constantly doing or giving or sharing. This is where you get to receive, and many times it’s so hard for us to receive help and support. That’s actually the hardest thing to receive is help and support, and you may not realize, but your support soul posse may just be around you, and it could look like -- and I share a lot of these ways in part two of That Sucked. Now What?
And it’s because there are five steps to this framework that I talk about which is the Fly Forward Framework, and in that, when you're at the magnify stage, you really want to surround yourself with people that support you, and one of the ways that you can do that is to get out of your comfort zone. Make a list of all the ways where the activities that light you up (it could be yoga, it could be going on retreats, it could be going to networking events, it could be doing meet-up groups), whatever really brings you that joy (taking a pottery class, taking a painting class, going for walks in the park and signing up with other people), that’s where you find your people. So, make a list of all the places where your people are hanging out. That’s number one if you don't already have a support soul posse.
If you do, number two, you want to be the gatherer. You want to be that way-shower. You want to be the person that brings everyone together, meaning that maybe you can have a circle ritual, and you have that two-hour window where it’s in the beginning of the day, end of the day, or have it on the weekend, but have a time where there’s a start time and an end time so that you're actually sitting in community, sitting in a circle, and why a circle?
Well, because that’s how we can actually relate to one another. There have been thousands of years of women across the globe, across the world, and in ancient traditions, and our ancestors would sit in a circle and just share and sing and celebrate one another, and this is how you -- it doesn't have to be a lot of people. It could be as small as three people to take a group. Three people plus yourself, four. That’s your sister, your mom, and your neighbor. But to allow yourself to sit in community and actually ask, “How are you really doing, and what is it that I can support you with right now? What is it that you need? What are some of the things that are challenging for you?” Because when we can talk about that-sucked-now-what moments, then we can actually be a bridge and a pillar of support for each other, and this is one of the ways, among many, that you can do to magnify the community in your life with starting just with a few people that probably love you so much.
Amanda Testa: Yes, I love that so much. Even just talking about things sometimes can be so freeing. So often, you think you're in it alone, but when you talk about it, you’ll find you're not most of the time, right? People can relate because they want to be there for you and also we don't often talk a lot about the bad things in our lives or the sucky things, right? The more we can open up and talk about that, people realize, “Oh, they're not alone. Oh, we’ve all experienced sucky things,” but also really allowing yourself to receive, like you say, that’s not always an easy thing. So, I love that advice, too, just like the people reaching out to you, let them help you.
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Absolutely.
Amanda Testa: Give them something to do that you need. If people keep calling you for help, be like, “You know what I’d really love is if you would come and fold my laundry. Is that available to you?” Maybe it is, right? You never know!
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Absolutely! That’s the best.
Amanda Testa: Or whatever! [Laughs] Sometimes especially for a new mom, right? Because you mentioned, too, moving into motherhood is a big transition, and while it’s a beautiful, amazing thing, often there’s a lot that can come up with that, and so, I mean even there I’m wondering what advice you have for kind of finding these times for yourself when you have so many responsibilities and people that need you and all of that.
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Oh, wow, yes, and honestly, Amanda, that’s been such a journey, you know? I think that in the book I definitely make sure to address a lot of the loneliness that can happen when we’re actually trying to figure ourselves out again, trying to reinvent ourselves.
I talk about the Fly Forward Framework in the book, and that’s part two because it’s understanding what happens when we are going through a tough time or a life initiation. We have a fall, and having a fall is stage number one. That’s the first stage. You're going through this pivotal moment, and it was either a diagnosis, it was maybe somebody left you, it was you didn't get the promotion, or you got fired, or something big and monumental happened. And where some of the emotions around it is you're shocked, you're feeling hopeless, you're feeling helpless. Maybe you're in that victim mode, but then we get into stage two where it’s that ignition.
It’s that ignition because, hey, it wasn't expected. This was unexpected that happened, and now there’s an urgency. It’s a crisis. You got a medical diagnosis. Something happened. So, now, it’s allowing yourself to change, make change. And sometimes in that ignition stage we have to, then, prioritize our selfcare.
We have to prioritize when we’re going to be nourishing ourselves. And so, even in my own life, when I had to prioritize after I left this really monumental and abusive marriage, I had to prioritize my healing for the first time ever because I had finally fallen apart which meant seeing the therapist, which meant seeing my coaches and healers and body workers and literally locking that time in the schedule, and that’s a huge part of igniting.
Because then we get to rising where rising stage (that’s stage three) when you're actually having that new sense of confidence and new curiosity on, “Okay, I know I have a busy week,” but instead of saying I have a busy week, we’re saying, “Okay, here’s where I can make time. I can make 20 minutes work here for my own walk around the block. I can make ten minutes work here where I can actually do jumping jacks or rejuvenate or jump up and down and rejuvenate my body so I can have more energy for the afternoon,” but you're actually looking at your schedule and seeing the slots where you can actually make that work.
Then when we get into parts four and five, magnify and the thriving stage, magnifying stage, you're actually now making peace with your past. You're making peace with and forgiving yourself for whatever it is that you had went through, and now you have more time because you're seeing every opportunity as a possibility for nourishment and self-care. When we get into thriving (that’s stage five), that’s actually paying it forward to other people in your community, and that’s where you’re having soul posse gatherings, you're connecting your support posse with other people as well because you want the best for them as well, and it’s just paying it forward. It could look like volunteering on a Sunday with your soul support posse. It could be taking a trip together so that you're actually making shared memories because you're passing that forward.
Amanda Testa: Yes, ah, so beautiful. Well, I feel like I’m curious, too, when people are wanting support I know they can get your book, but I’d love if you’d share, too, where people can connect with you and learn more about you and all of the wonderful things you're doing in the world.
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Absolutely. Well, you can definitely find me on Instagram @neetabhushan, and we have a whole slew of courses as well as resources at globalgrit.co, and honestly, the best way to connect now is to grab your free bonuses at thatsuckednowwhat.com.
Amanda Testa: Beautiful. Well, I am wondering, too, specifically because my podcast is a lot around sexuality and getting your feminine fire back, and all of these things are all so connected. And so, I’m wondering, maybe if there’s any insight you could share around that before we close.
Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Absolutely. I think that many times when we’re going through tough moments because of what society has told us about our own sexuality, of our own sensuality, of our own pleasure, it’s often diminished, or it’s often looked at in a bad light. And when we talk about the wounded feminine and the wounded masculine, for me, it was having to do and to prove and to be for other people, and I think what’s so beautiful is when we can actually soften and soften into our feminine and reclaim that power back, and this is the now what part. This is the magnifying part of really reclaiming what lights you up.
I noticed that this year, in fact, as I reinvented myself, yet again, after having my second child, it was how can I gain that sensuality back? How can I gain my own flair of how I felt in my body again after the chaotic messiness of having two kids, breastfeeding, and all the things, and not really wanting to be open with my husband, like really having to redefine what that looks like and having to block out time even for intimacy.
But, for me, the intimacy looked so different, and how were we able to navigate some of these different and challenging conversations that are so important in a monogamous relationship, let alone any sort of relationship, but I think also with having two children, he was also sharing, “Okay, well --,” and we had this open conversation to say, “All right, how do you want to explore your sensuality in this stage?”
And so, I started taking pole dancing and floorwork to just get back into my body to feel alive because a lot of times, after the first kid, things don't feel necessarily right, and you're falling back in love with yourself in your new body in the way that it is again.
Same thing with my second baby, but I also, for my daughter, it was like reminding me of that essence of play and love. And that’s literally stage four and five and a little bit of stage three of Flying Forward is we have that rising period where you're rising, and you're also rediscovering what lights you up in different ways. For me, before it was triathlons and it’s very masculine, and now, it’s like, no, I want to play. I want to dance. I want to have that strength so I can do the pole tricks but also really love and celebrate my own sexuality in this season and stage of my life, and that is the magnifying part. That is the thriving part.
Amanda Testa: Yes! Well, thank you so much, again, for being here and for sharing so much of your wisdom. I will make sure, too, to share in the show notes where everyone can find you, all your websites, and where you can get the book. That Sucked. Now What? is the name which I love. Yeah, and I just so appreciate all that you're bringing. So, thank you.
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Dr. Neeta Bhushan: Ah, thank you so much, love. I appreciate you for having me.
Amanda Testa: Yes and thank you all for listening. We will see you next week!
Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa, and if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation.
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