How to Harness Your emotions To Fuel Your Fire

Dana Inoyne is the type of women who’s energy just draws you in, and I am always so inspired by her work, and her passion for helping women become fierce, free and on fire!Tune in to this week’s podcast episode as we dive into using our emotions to Fuel Our Fire. She’s also a mom of 4 so totally gets the balance of finding the magic through our mess, and getting intimate with the mess of our emotions. 

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

In this episode you’ll discover

How to shift the paradigm on how we pursue and achieve goals/self-actualization.How to unlock the core of who you are through your emotions. Letting anger be a portal to tenderness.Why it’s so key to FEEL our emotions.And how we can move through the mess of our emotions to a deeper embodiment of wholeness on the other side. What it really takes to move through those limiting beliefs. and much more!

Dana Inouye is an activation and personal power coach. She helps women connect to their inner wild, tap into their magnetic energy, and own their magic, so that they can unleash the life that is stirring inside. She merges mindset with embodiment, and her groundbreaking method of harnessing the power of our emotions. 

I’m excited to be offering a PLEASURE practice for her upcoming Fierce Free and On Fire program,  find out more about the program HERE!

Find our more about Dana and connect with her on Facebook HERE. and on Insta HERE.

Get her Free Release And Rise playlists HERE.

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Want to schedule a free Connection Session with Amanda?  Schedule HERE.

Awakening Your Souls gifts +Claiming Abundance.

In times like this, sometimes it can feel hard to feel connected to our purpose and our vision, maybe feeling challenged to tap into what it takes to truly awaken our soul’s gifts. In this week’s podcast episode I’m talking with my dear friend Lisseth Makhael, a Subconscious Shifter, Quantum Leap Facilitator and Soul Integration Guide.

Listen to discover how to remove your blocks to abundance, and find the path back to yourself. 

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

In this episode you’ll discover

What it really means to awaken to your purpose.What is the difference in purpose and mission?How to connect to your spiritual guides.How to trust the guidance you receive.How to peel back the layers to find the path back to yourself.How to meet resistance with ease.The power of feeling.How pleasure is a key element to enjoying life.and much more!

Lisseth Makhael has guided over 3000 individuals in the journey of BEcoming more of who they truly are and embodying their SOUL. She has activated many Visionaries, Changemakers and Leaders to fulfilling their purpose and manifesting their mission beyond what their mind thought possible.

She has been guiding Soul Leaders for over 6 years to peel the layers of who they thought they are, shifting deeply at a subconscious level the programming they have taken in their Soul journey allowing them to unleash their essence. When Leaders work with Lisseth, they heal deep traumas that are not allowing them to expand to their full potential, breakthrough the seen and unseen upper ceilings as well as they start to activate their Soul Gifts. Her clients align with their mission and accelerate their path as she is known as the accelerator of Visionaries.

Lisseth’s gifts and energy helps them break through stubborn patterns as well as move onto the next level of abundance and building their legacy by working in the Quantum Field and the Embodiment and Integration of their Higher Frequencies. She is called to be their number one supporter, guide and facilitator, so they create their Soul Aligned life and the highest level of abundance, love and service to bring and anchor the New World

Find out more about Lisseth and connect with HERE.

Connect with her on Facebook HERE. and on Insta HERE.

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Want to schedule a free Connection Session with Amanda?  Schedule HERE.

Amanda Testa (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex love and relationship coach. And in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex love and relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Hello everyone. And welcome. In times like this, sometimes it can feel hard to feel connected to our purpose and our vision. Maybe feeling challenged to tap into what it takes to truly awaken our soul’s gifts. And today I am so thrilled to be talking with my dear friend, Lisseth Makheel and Lisseth is a subconscious shifter, a quantum leap facilitator, soul integration guide. She’s really just such a magical awakener and I love her energy. I am so grateful to have met her years ago, and I’m really so excited to talk to you today. Thank you so much, Lisseth, for being here today.

Lisseth Makhael (00:59):

Thanks so much, Amanda, for having me. I am so excited to play together. Yes.

Amanda Testa (01:04):

And I know we’ve been wanting to collaborate on something for a while, but this just feels so good. And I know you just got back from a retreat in Sedona, so you have some fresh new, you know, clarity and fun realizations to share with us. But before we get started, what I’d love for you to maybe share a little bit more around is kind of your journey and how you became so passionate about helping leaders and helping influencers, and just helping people connect to their souls gifts really awaken their soul’s gifts.

Lisseth Makhael (01:37):

There’s a few things that are coming up right there. The first thing that comes up is it, it was in my heart all along. It was part of my path, right? How I started? It was six years ago, around six years ago, I believe for probably seven at this point that, you know, just like many, I was actually, I had, I started two businesses and they were doing pretty decent. And they say just like many, because you know, back then I had two businesses and I wanted to be abundant, right. Have more money and create more and enjoy more life. Right. And so I was doing good. And I came across this interesting program that talk about abundance. Right. You know, activating, you know, removing your blocks of abundance, but then I didn’t know anything about energy or gifts or anything. Your classic, you know, I know I have talent.

Lisseth Makhael (02:40):

Right. I know I’m like, go getter. I know I have a lot of potential. Right. And I knew that whatever I set my mind into, I just achieve it. And so that was my thing. Right. And so that’s what I’m saying. Just like anyone the big motivator or most people like more right. To have more money, more fun. Right. And I had my basics of what I knew it was it’s possible for me. And I say basics, cause this is the key. Right. Because we only we have awareness and we know what we know. Right. And so to really have everything that we are meant to, we need to be able to like break down those walls. Right. But this is what it comes in the soul gifts. Right. And so knows. Right. Your soul knows. And your soul and your soul, your essence, your heart, right.

Lisseth Makhael (03:37):

That the heart is the seat of the soul. Right. It’s always pulling you. Right. It’s always guiding you is always saying like this way and this way and this way. Right. So again, back then didn’t know anything about energy and quantum field and love attraction. Barely had part of it, you know? And so gives us, like, I’ve always had my gifts, but I wasn’t aware. Right. And yeah, the only thing I know is like, I wanted more, I knew I started to become aware or awakened to what I’ve always known. And this is, I know this resonates with so many people because like, I’ve always known this, right. When you start to hear these things, I always known this. And so I heard same thing in this program, like, yes, you know, angels and guides and abundance. And I was like always known this.

Lisseth Makhael (04:29):

And so that it started to open my energy my gifts, like they were there, but now I was conscious and it’s like came online. Right. It came full on overnight. All my colors were open. My empath. I had everything like in the say almost all overnight within a month. Like I was having this communication with guides and angels. And within a few months, I want to say six months, I was within three months, I was doing readings. And within six months I was doing healings without anyone. Right. Really teaching me. Okay. And so I’m passionate because for many reasons, I mean, that was, that has been my path, my path, you know, the design and that my let’s say higher self soul. Right. Okay. Put on is amazing. It’s like, okay, now there’s now this again, without me planning it, he just came online.

Lisseth Makhael (05:25):

But the other thing that I have become aware of my journey is that each one of us is a piece of the puzzle, right. That we all have said yes, to build this big tapestry, aka in the Ascension process, the new world, the new earth, how call it. Right. And so I’ve become now more aware than ever. And this is why I’m even more passionate and really working with them, the leaders with the visionaries, with the high achievers, helping them really streamline themselves. Because again, we’re all pieces of the puzzle and people often ask me, how is that you got, you know, when they work with me, when they see me in my work is like, wow, like I want that right. How do you get that? Right. I, like I said, my soul line up a path for me. And it came in precisely that, that, you know, the moment I didn’t know.

Lisseth Makhael (06:22):

Right. And I know it came that way because part of my piece of the past, so my contribution right. Is awakened, not even awakened, it’s really anchoring, help them, help others stream who they are, their gifts is an extension, right. Just like your gifts, you give is different. Right. Amanda, you awakened essential core and peace in women, but in general in humans right. The, let’s say the heart of life, like the heart of creation. Right. And so you have that, what I call now coding. Right? You have this, a specific piece of the puzzle you’re coding. Right. And so, again, I’m passionate because I know my contribution is key for those that are called to build this new world. And yeah. And that’s just like, it’s who I am, how I will walk. I, as you know, I talk my walk more than vice versa and yeah, I just, and I love it. I love the,

Amanda Testa (07:36):

And you know, one of the things that I do, I love that you mentioned too, you just have this calling this, like, drive this desire in you and this potential, this, you are just wanting more and you knew it was out there, but you were just open. And when you had that openness, everything aligned to kind of bring you the path, like the path shows itself. Right?

Lisseth Makhael (07:57):

Yes. And that, I love that you mentioned that because I see,now, when things show up, sometimes I’m being sarcastic here, but sometimes we offer resistance as you know. Yeah. The openness in it’s fascinating because I’ve always, you know, seeing, as you hear different people, known people, they share the journey, you know, how they hit a lot of times where hit bottom, right. In order for us to pivot. And that has never been my case. Okay. Not in the beginning, at least, right. This year was another story, but , you know, 2020 has brought a lot of gifts for everyone. But in my beginning it was, I’m going to say life wasn’t bad, you know, seven years ago, it wasn’t bad. But again, this the, that openiness you mentioned on called the path showed up was because I literally, I remember it was May, I think six or 13, but it was May.

Lisseth Makhael (09:05):

I was on top of red rocks in a concert while everybody was jamming. I was crying because I had left from living in the mountains, for 10 years, I had loved the mountains. What I knew I had been already in Denver, I think year and a half at that point. And I was like, I cry. And at that moment, I even didn’t really connect much to the universe universe and I, or God. And I had some quarrals right there. But I remember just crying and saying like, Hey, use me. Like, I know I have so much to give. I know the way that I am and how I achieve things is for a reason, so it’s just looking for that purpose. Right. Looking for like, there is something. And I feel, I want to say, I don’t know if there is a word, but maybe a lot of people will resonate with that.

Lisseth Makhael (09:57):

It’s just like, I know, you know, there’s, there’s a hole right there. Right. And so I don’t remember. It was, it was what I call the prayer that, you know, a prayer cry prayer, like just use me and again, the path it started to show itself. Right. And I kept saying, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I keep saying yes, even though sometimes it’s not that easy. Like I said, the resistance. And so I mentioned resistance because so many people have this calling, right. Like I want to, there’s something more and things are, start to show up, but the, they lean more into the resistance as opposed to, okay, this is showing up. I don’t know. I’m just going to go for it. I keep saying yes. And keep walking the path.

Amanda Testa (10:45):

Yeah. I think that’s true because it often doesn’t look like we think it should look or that we want it to look and it’s not the path necessarily that we want to take. It may feel scary or there’s a lot of fear around it. And I, you know, and I think to that too, I just want to mention this and would love to get your insight on that as well. Because when we do open to that purpose, you know, we all have, we all are here for a reason and maybe it doesn’t always have to look the same for every person. Right. It doesn’t have to be some huge grandiose thing, but whatever it is, it’s like trusting that what you’re doing is enough and right. And I’m curious to get your, you know, as you pull in that, cause I know sometimes I hear people say, well, I don’t know my purpose is. And I just feel like all I do is just like take care of kids or whatever it is. Right. But there’s many ways to be part of this, you know, matrix, so to speak right. To, to bring goodness and elevate humanity. So I would love if you could speak to that for a moment, if you wouldn’t mind.

Lisseth Makhael (11:43):

Yeah. Thank you. I always get kind of like tikced when, you know, when I do transmissions, whether it’s Instagram, Facebook live and you know, in my Facebook group, people always I always have someone that comes to say, someone just told me that I’m a healer, you know kind of like I need to drop everything and help on the wagon. And I have no clue. Like I mentioned, like to me, how my purpose showed up, I wasn’t like, I’m going to be a healer. You know, I’m going to be this. It just literally, it was, I want more abundance and then my gifts started to show up. And then, you know, I looked for a mentor so I could have a better communication with my spiritual team. And then she, you know, my mentor did back then readings, some healing. And I was like, yep Nope, like cool.

Lisseth Makhael (12:43):

You know, I didn’t deny it. And he didn’t call me either. And so this is the key to me. What I say in terms of purpose is like, just go with what is calling you in that moment. Right. For me, it was in the beginning working with my spiritual team, right. Learning to communicate. That’s what sparked me in the beginning. And even in that time, I started to get people coming in and can you please help me and guide me and coach me, I didn’t even know what was coaching. I didn’t even know that existed. I was like, sure. And I was channeling, you know, intuitively what I needed to do with them. Right. I guess, I didn’t know. And one day as I kept doing my work, right. Kept doing my own healing. The next thing was that, Oh, I want to do readings now..

Lisseth Makhael (13:29):

You know, I’m curious. And then boom, I was doing it. Right. And then the next thing, Oh, I literally was just like, Oh, I think I can bring healing. That will help my clients. Boom. And then again, one thing after another right. And people had started to show up. And so I get it, you know, people sometimes get too hung up in like, what is it? Because, and when I say I get it, because I experienced that, like there is something more, right. There’s something more, but don’t get attached to, because again, this is what our mindset comes in. Right. It was like, I’m not doing it. Nothing is happening. Right. And that’s when they get in tangle into the lack of it, as opposed to there is a purpose, I invite people to do their prayer. Like, you know, show me and let it go.

Lisseth Makhael (14:20):

You know, it was a year before I think it, yeah, it was a few months I want to say probably 10 months or so before things started to get to get reveal to me for sure. A year until I was in it. Right. And again, I forgot about it until I started to speak in events. Right. I was like, Oh, this was the people, people at that moment. Right. And so then the next piece that I wanted to say and do what you say is like the significance of it, right? I’m just a mom. I’m just this. Like I call there is a difference in my book, there’s purpose. And there is mission and purpose is about you. And your mission is about others. And ultimately your mission comes as an extension of your purpose. So this is really key because there are so many people that hop on the wagon of the doing, of bringing the vision.

Lisseth Makhael (15:23):

Right. And they don’t, they haven’t even connected with the mission. The why they’re doing this. Why? When things get hard, they really sound sink very low. Right. And they haven’t even connected with their purpose. Why is that? They’re here. Right. And that’s the key because ultimately at the end of the day, the mission is kind of, when you got a skill, you want to bring it to the world. You want to play. It’s like, you get your toy. Right. You build something, let’s say you build your Barbie doll or whatever. I mean, you see it with your daughter, right? You, you greet something like she grows that little kitchen, whatever it is that she creates. Right. You create something. And then I was like, Oh, I wanna, I wanna play now with someone else. That’s the mission. When you create something and then you want to play with someone else. Right. But the purpose is like, what is calling you? What it’s about you. Right. And so, so many people again, get the deviated by the outer, right? It’s about others. Others. No, it’s not. You first and foremost, calling is about you. You are here for you. And if your expression is being a mom, then really sit with that. Right. Because to me, I mean, mom is only the most important role job in the planet. Never stops. You don’t give vacation from it, from it. Even when your kids are gone,

Lisseth Makhael (16:50):

You’re always thinking About them. I’m serious. It’s a 24 seven. So what are more, there’s not, no job more important than that. That one does really isn’t right. And so again, noticing that if anything work on that, right? Like it feels like the undervalued, Oh, you’re calling, right.

Lisseth Makhael (17:12):

You’re looking for this grandeur. And again, that grandeur,, I’ve seen so many people. Cause I work with a lot of leaders, you start to loop, right. Because they’re like building and creating more money creating this. But when they don’t have a core, that’s when they start to lose it. And as you know, that is happening a lot nowadays because they haven’t found that core. And this is why now more than ever, I know what I’m bringing is important because it’s about connecting back to that essence. Right. They’d be building the building, but there is no life in it. So the buildings are crumbling. It’s like, like you mentioned, chasing that outer. Or, and like maybe you have all

Amanda Testa (17:50):

The things and all the money and check all the boxes, but you have that it’s hollow because you’re still, there’s something missing deeply inside. Right. I see that a lot too. And it makes so much sense. So it’s like reconnecting to like that essence. And I love how, you know, you mentioned one of the things I would love to loop back to just for a minute is, you know, you want the first, one of the first steps that you had that you wanted was to connect with your spiritual team. And I love that, you know, the way you named that, but you know, I’m curious too, for people possibly listening or, and also how you mentioned working with a mentor sometimes can be so important because they can help guide you or take those steps that maybe you don’t see yet. So if someone’s like, I think that’s really resonant with me. I would love to connect more to my guides. And how, what, like, what is a step to go around doing that, right? How do we open to that? Or if you might want to share it a thing or two around that.

Lisseth Makhael (18:41):

So it can be pretty straight forward. There are a lot of steps. So let me, let me start with that. The easy part, the easy part, it starts with intention. Okay. Intention, intention is everything is like, when you are, when you want to starting a relationship, let’s say you’re going to start that based what, right. Even to get into that space, to call in whoever you call in, right? You got to be open, right? There’s so many people that are having forever hard time to find a date. And they don’t even realize is because they’re not open and they’re in fear mode. Right. Fear of getting their heart broken. And,uyou know, as I was still in here right before this, you know, I just back into the dating scene. And I just connected with this guy is like, you know, it’s just fascinating that again, he was talking about his ex-wife, I’m why not.

Lisseth Makhael (19:48):

And I could see how the pain, you know, nobody wants a long-term relationship. And so of course, when you’re carrying the pain, you’re not open, then you only gonna keep attracting that. Right. So start with like, and so many people I’ve seen that have fears around hearing their guides, listening knowing, right. I mean, there’s so many ways that you get to connect with your guides, right. There is this feeling, there’s a hearing, there’s the knowing and there is a seeing, right? And so again, you, intention is everything. And in this intention is important that you realize if you’re truly open, right. Because so many times I’ve seen myself on my guides in the beginning, show me, and I still do it every time, less and less and less rarely, but I still do it. Like I asked a question, right. To my guidance. And then I call her my ears. I must give, to say that I’m asking. Right. And I’m sure you relate to that. You know, it’s like so many times we ask a question to know, but then we don’t want to hear it. Right. We don’t want to know.

Lisseth Makhael (21:00):

So, but in general, if you’re starting, is that if you have fears around that, then that’s going to block your connection. Right. And so it’s important to release on that. And then again, your intention, like, I guess it goes going back to like, when you’re dating with someone, right? Like you put, focus on what you want and focus daily. Right. So imagine if I get on the app myself, I put my profile, but I never show up in the app. My profile is not going to be shown to anyone. Right. It’s for me to be able to get on dates and get to know people, I have to be in the app, you know, liking and talking and messaging. Right. And then see if there’s a much, right. So beyond that physical stuff, right. So same with your guides, same with your spiritual team or galactic team, you know, it’s, you put your intention and then you work it, you ask, you know, ask them cause they have the ability to help you already.

Lisseth Makhael (22:05):

Right? Like please open my hearing, please open my feeling like, please give me help. This messages, help me get this messages, messages. Right. And so again, it starts to be going back just like dating, right? You start to focus on the more you focus, the more that religion gets nurture. Right. And the more expanse expansive spans. So that’s that, let’s say the ISI beginning. Now I do want to say the sequel, you know, the journey, it’s very important to keep in mind the journey, because a lot of people it’s like your intuition,, I was sharing with someone this last week is your intuition is going to be more on point. The more you build the layers, your intuition, that the level of intuition, when I say level is the, how accurate and how clearly you can get it is in direct correlation or how much you do your inner work. And so that also translates to communication with your guides, with your right. So your guidance might be telling you to do something right. And, and this is where a lot of issues come up in terms of like, let’s say something personal. Yes. Can we get it wrong?

Lisseth Makhael (23:32):

Let’s go, let’s get it wrong. I’m to, I’m going to share something personal. Okay. So I was dating someone, you know, and that’s why like, I’m just coming back. I was getting some, someone a few months ago and it was beautiful. It was hot. It was. And I say hard because there was so much love. And we literally, we were compatible in every single possible way that you can imagine. It was beautiful. Seven weeks of an amazing, what I called the love bubble. And we both were like, sure, that this was the it. And we received messages, a lot of soul history together. And it was instant recognition, the moment that we saw each other. Right. And then life happened. Okay. And he decided that he couldn’t do this for a little while and then kept extending until finally I said, okay, this is not making sense.

Lisseth Makhael (24:26):

Let’s just call it a for real, let’s stop breaking. Even though we’re bringing up, even though we’re not together, literally it was like, how many times can you break up with someone that you’re not with? And so, but he was going through a very rough time. And one of the reasons is like a lot of physical pain and depression. And so of course we have this deep connection and there is a lot of like, you know, caring and love for each other. Right. And my guidance, it kept coming and saying, as you know, we totally, how do you say for sure, broke up, kept saying is like show up for him. You know, he’s having a hard time. Right. He’s going through depression. And so again, I have a still very strong feelings for him. Right. And so guidance would come and I’d be like, I would go there.

Lisseth Makhael (25:13):

But on my way, I would like choose to be neutral. Right. Not have my, my let’s say my woman feelings, my human feelings right. In the way, because I knew he needed me to just show up. Right. And so I would show up and I was fine for a day. And then by the second day, my heart would be breaking and breaking in pieces. Right. And it was challenging. That happened like two, three times. Right. And a guide guide us kept saying like that, that I kept asking, what is this lesson about? Right. What is this lesson? And of course in all this time, there was infinite, infinite layers that I appealed in, in a partnership infinite seriously. And, but in this phase I was like, I came, my heart is breaking so bad. You know, like how much can I take? And I kept hearing my guides say show up for him.

Lisseth Makhael (26:01):

Be neutral. And even when my mentor, I heard us, she said, it seems like right now the lesson is being learning to be neutral. Something that I was not so successful. I did my best with my ex-husband, but I was not successful. And so I was like, okay, again, that lesson. And then I had to ask when is enough enough because my, I feel I can’t take it anymore. Right. My heart was like, I could feel the pieces every time, you know, after it. So that’s when I moved to the next lesson and my, my mentor helped me with this and said, you are human, so you get to choose. Right. And so I said, okay, no more. I’m done. I need, I love him. And right now I can’t be there because I need to take it off my heart. Right now it hurts so bad. Right. And so a week, two weeks, I’m going through this process of like, letting go totally, you know, letting going all aspects. And then he showed up, I want to say the realist or the next layer, which in reality, my guidance was saying that, yes, there’s this law, this lesson of being neutral, but the real lesson, what I feel like I’m staying with now, as it was about learning, to choose myself before others.

Amanda Testa (27:19):

That’s huge. Yeah.

Lisseth Makhael (27:22):

And, and so C is not that my guidance was wrong. It’s not that I was not hearing. Right. But it’s just like, they’re gonna guide you to the lessons that you need to get.

Amanda Testa (27:36):

Yeah. I love that. And I think too, you honor that journey and the evolution or the soul as you call it is like really just trusting that the lesson that you need is the one that you’ll be getting. And it might like, like you said, not liquid, you want it to, but it’s there. And you know, one of the things that you mentioned too around really doing that inner work piece, so key, and I know this is a lot of what you do too, is helping people like release all the things that are there that are keeping them from connecting to themselves, like all the pains and all the traumas and all the things that we’ve like, all the hurts and all the things we’ve like just stuffed down. And obviously that shows up in all kinds of areas in our lives, right. And their relationships and their sexuality. And just in general. But I would, would you speak to that a little bit? If you don’t mind,

Lisseth Makhael (28:24):

Not at all, to me, this is the key. And again, this is that in their work is the journey is the purpose. That’s it really? And, and really why do we peel the layers? That’s what I, I feel like it’s important to address. Okay. Cause sometimes it can get exhausting. I mean, this and this, I was in this space for 12 weeks and I am someone that my coding, and part of like, when I work with people is like, I move in accelerated pace. Like you come with something we go want in three months, you’re already somewhere else. Like you’re already comfortable with it at least once, if not twice. Right. I move really fast. Okay. Again, I might, I share how my soul’s gaming online. Right. It was just like, in a matter of like six, eight months I was at full on boom, everything. Right. That’s my coding. And that’s what I support people with that quick transformation. Right. Because we have, I mean, as visionaries, we have big stuff to accomplish. Right. So, so these past 12,weeks is like three months to me felt like forever. Like I remember my mentor saying, it’s like, you gotta be gentle. You just broke up three months ago. And I was like

Speaker 4 (29:44):

Months ago, that was like three lifetimes for me. Like, you know, it’s like some, are you talking about like, I,

Lisseth Makhael (29:53):

I already normally would have move on onto something else, but you know, it’s, it’s a journey that allows you to come back more and more to you. And it’s, it’s not even some people call them back, back, coming back home, right. Within you, to me, the way that I see it as this peeling, the layers is like, you’re this container, like, you’re this vessel, this bottle, right. That full of water that has some being emptied out for like ever. Right. And so this water imagine like, we call it experiences. We call it trauma, we call it emotion. We call it thoughts. Okay. Imagine you’re just shoving it out, shove it down, keep feeling it, keep feeling it right. Because that’s what society has taught us. Right. You don’t process. You’re just like, keep putting in a hide it, push it under.. Right. And so all of a sudden you open the bottle or the vessel, well, that water is going to be pretty stinky and nasty, Right?

Lisseth Makhael (30:58):

So you start to empty that water. And that is space creates that empty, empty, empty in the vessel creates the space for your soul, for you, essence who you truly are. So to me, that’s the journey. That’s what we’re here for, whatever your purpose is. And when I say purpose is like, you know, getting the, self-love getting the happiness, getting the bonus, whatever your purpose is, right. It’s all about you filling your vessel with more of who you truly, truly are. And so it is a journey it’s never ending. There’s always things to peel. This always seems to empty it out. And there’s something interesting that is happening though. Now with this shifting consciousness that we’re experiencing recently, it’s also so many people have come to me as like, I’m just so tired of this. My trust me in the beginning, if you are new to your inner work is gonna it’s tedious.

Lisseth Makhael (32:01):

Like, and again, I just want you to think about is like the vessel, right? You’re just emptying the vessel, in the beginning, takes a lot of work. But eventually that is a shift. Eventually. It’s like, like I said, that the peeling journey never is never going to end, but the shift starts to come to, when you start to bring in a lot of you, then your essence is start to lead. Right. And your essence creates. And so this is where, you know, I love to, you know, to see you reality, it starts to reflect who you are. So many say is like, Oh, people I was talking I was talking with an investor this morning and he’s so afraid that people betray him, that people Rob him, it was like, Oh, I was like, Hmm, I can help you with that. You know, because again, that’s in the subconscious, right.

Lisseth Makhael (32:56):

That’s the bottle. Right? And so when we clear that, you know, and I’ve cleared so many things from my, my field, my vessel let’s put it that way to stay with that metaphor is like things to start, start to show up in some, in terms of, let’s say that investor, right. We cleared that we empty that from his beingness, right? That this betrayal, these people Rob me and whatnot. And then all the sudden, normally he will stop having that experience, but he will start to attract the people that will want to support him and build with him. Right. The opposite. Why? Because that’s the essence of who he is. Right. And so that to me is when we start to be move into creation now, what do you want now? It’s about, what do you want, why do you want to experience?

Amanda Testa (33:51):

I love that too. And, and when you mentioned that shift, that happens, it is a palpable shift. Like when I can see it too, in working with clients, when that blueprint and when the essence comes out and you can just see it do its magic, because we all have that within us. And it’s, you know, like you say, the vessel, it gets full with all the other stuff that we it’s hard for it to come out. So you really have to unravel, or like, like you say, peel back the layers so it can come out. And I love that. And I also, you know, you mentioned too, like in the beginning, it can be pretty tedious, I think was the word you use. I love that it can be a lot of things and yes, but knowing that, that is a shift that can happen. And, you know, there’s also that learning of how do you find a way to connect with the process? And you mentioned this earlier, your experience you had recently of connecting with pleasure and all the ways, like no matter what’s present, like how can you meet that with a beloved presence, right? Whether it’s, you know, something that’s painful or beautiful or sad, or the anger, whatever it is, like meeting it with that, there’s a way to kind of learn to have a more pleasurable relation throughout it. So it’s becomes less tedious. Does that make sense?

Lisseth Makhael (35:01):

Yes, it does make sense. And and I’m I’m glad we’re circling back to what I just recently experienced and which is pleasure in all things. So before we go, we got there. I would like to talk about this thing that is coming to get there. So everyone starts their journey through a different entrance point. So for some people it will be mindset for some people, it will be emotional work, right? For some people, it will be an energetic, right? From some people it would have physical, right? We all have an entrance point. And so this is very important to keep in mind, because again, this is why, and again, this is part of the journey, right? Your soul decided this is, and there’s not a coincidence how you enter. Let’s say what I called your soul development. Your soul evolution is the key is going to Mark you, you will learn about other things, okay.

Lisseth Makhael (35:57):

As your mentor. And this is another thing that I really want to clarify, but this how you enter into this space is gonna, it’s kind of like if you hear my accent, right, I’m Peruvian. And I was talking on Saturday with a guy from, Afganistan. He was teaching me how to pronounce correctly, you know? And he’s been here even longer than me. He’s being in the States for 27 years. And he still has an accent, right. Is never going to leave us because that’s was that our entrance point to this world, right? The accent never leaves you it’s very much like that. Okay. Your entrance point to this work. It’s going to be what it is going to stay with you forever, like is gonna be that container. Let’s say. And so many people stay caught up in that entrance point.

Lisseth Makhael (36:47):

And this is very important because again, it’s like, I don’t, I saw someone recently creating a post saying like, Oh mindset is so old world, you know, that’s never gonna take you the next scene. So magic is the thing. Right. And to me, as I saw that, I was like, she was talking about paradigms, right. The new paradigm is somatic work. I’m like, to me, it’s like the new paradigm is realizing that there is not one pill is not just somatic. It’s not just mindset. It’s everything. The key is we have itall,. Yes. Right. We have the mental, we have the emotional. And again, we like, because we haven’t learned to really integrate at all. Right. We have a hard time. So realizing that your entrancew point is just that your entrance point and then your called to take the next step.

Lisseth Makhael (37:46):

Right. Like to me, it was energetic. Then I move into the emotional. Then I move into the physical, and then I move into the mindset. Actually for me, that has been the last piece. Okay. And we’d all love that I get to dive deeper and deeper and deeper layers. Right. I, I, emotion, my emotional work is started three years ago and it’s still, like I said, just last, last week I experienced another level of emotion. Emotional, let’s say openness I’m feeling right. And so I wanted to really clarify that because we all are going to, we have our journey and the way that it’s presented, but we are invited to, into tapping into all of it for ultimately our full happiness, our full wholeness right now, what I experienced last week is key for that. And to keep, as we’re talking about resistance to keep moving in that path with ease is pleasure..

Lisseth Makhael (38:53):

The key element is pleasure. And unfortunately, I’m going to remove that word. Let’s say, the way that we learn is a pendulum, right. We go from one extreme to another, right. So in the beginning, and I’m talking about in the beginning years ago, they could say, well, our society was really like, let’s say negative thinking, right? Like yeah. Always plan. What is it? What is the saying? Like plan for what you hope, something around like hope for the best plan for the worst type thing. You know, something like that, you know, or very negative society everywhere. It doesn’t matter if the culture, right. That was the world. And then eventually law of attraction started to hit it. And I was like, well, stay positive. So we hold for one to positive. No, you cannot feel sad. You cannot feel grief. It’s going to screw up your energy and your manifestation, like positive, positive, positive.

Lisseth Makhael (39:51):

So we go from being super like into the sadness and density and the worst to just only positive, only positive. I mean that extreme of the pendulum, you know, we start to deny the very essence of humanness which is feeling all the emotions. Right. And, and again, the key, the key element is pleasure. As you know, in society, in whether you were born here. And when I say here is in the Western culture, or whether you were born in an Eastern culture, both sides of the world have, how do you say condemned pleasure, right. Is the flesh is whatever, right? It’s the same However, they describe it on the other side, but same thing. Right? And so we make it bad. But the thing why we chose to come here, I mean, as you know, this can be a really, I mean, this planet is gorgeous and can be an amazing journey, but is not an easy journey.

Lisseth Makhael (40:59):

And to navigate better is to under, to not to navigate better this life. We need to understand that we chose to be human humans, too, feel to feel it all. So when we step into this space of there is true pleasure in feeling just as much cold. And I say this because I normally don’t like are used to not like, and now I’m like, no, you know what? There is pleasure in that because my body gets to feel a contrast, right? The cold floor or the cold weather, my body gets to feel alive. Right. I am alive. I mean, my body, I get to feel right. And there’s pleasure in like, you know, the fuzzy blanket that wraps me up, right? The softness of it, the warmth of it there’s pleasure in feeling grief, believe it or not. Right. It’s just, when you, just, because again is this theme that when you sit with it and you realize, okay, I’m feeling grief.

Lisseth Makhael (42:04):

I want to remind you that after all you are feeling, that’s a sign that you are human, that you are alive, you get to touch other people, you get to hug them. You know, you get to experience chocolate, you get to experience orgasms,You know, you get to experience things that you normally do. Not when you do not have a body, you know, one of the biggest issues that I normally people come to me is like the big issue of the world is that disconnection. Well, we’re disconnected Because we, haven’t learned to be in our body and enjoy and fully have this pleasure. I have flesh, and that is delicious on its own.

Amanda Testa (42:48):

I love that so much. I’m just like over here all tingly and I love it.

Lisseth Makhael (42:59):

And it was a journey for me to get to this point. And I’m like, yeah, I’m like really enjoying learning them. It’s a constant reminder. Now it’s like, cold is like, it’s good. I can enjoy being cold.

Amanda Testa (43:15):

And I love too how you mentioned, I think just really just to kind of share back that the journey and also trusting wherever you’re entering is the right place for you. There’s, you know, it’s, there’s no right or wrong way. And so just really taking that time to connect you to yourself and to listen to those little inklings, like the callings, what you really want and know that’s important. So key. And I feel like Lisseth, I could talk to you forever, because I know we can, but I know we’re kind of coming to the end of our time, but I’d love to, before we go in a minute, I want you to share where everyone can connect with you and all that good stuff. But also if there’s any last, any last things you’d like to share, or perhaps if there was a question that you really wished that I would’ve asked that I didn’t ask, let me turn in. Yeah.

Lisseth Makhael (44:05):

The thing that it keeps coming that is very alive to me is a little bit in that alignment with what I, I was just sharing this pleasure is so important for so many reasons, right? And what I’m called to share is, is ultimately what brings life to the world. When you allow yourself to feel pleasure all the time, no matter what, no matter what you’re feeling, right, you are actually does the sign that you’re fully in your body and is like, what I say is like, I love it. You mentioned, then you move into, what do you want? Right. Let’s say you ordered a pizza. If you’re not in your body, the pizza will come. So not being in the body is like, you ordered a pizza, I want this. Right. You ordered a pizza and then you leave the house, the pizza comes, but you never received because you’re not in the house.

Lisseth Makhael (45:07):

Right. And so it is so important. Again, like the more you are in your body, the more you get to receive, and this is the center of creation. For all the people that have a calling, that are building, right. That have a vision that are creating the legacy, the true life it’s well, going back to like right now, more than ever, things are, shambling so much because they have been donefrom the mined they have been created from the mind from the computer and not from what really creates, which is this, the pleasure center, the sacral, right. It is the creation center is what is looking, is what it gives life. Right? And so I willlove, for anyone that is listening to this and it still is with us, it’s like to really have you connect, I mean, we are complex beings, right?

Lisseth Makhael (46:08):

There’s not one pill. There is not one path. And it is journey of you becoming more and more who you are in your body. And in that, when you align with the journey of like, why you’re here to just really feel and be human and enjoying life, then you will find this like, Oh, part of that is opening your heart and walking fearlessly with an open heart and a loving onto everyone, no matter what. Right. And then in that, there is times they will be sad. There’s times that you know, that you, in my experience, something that you don’t like, right. But again, it’s that journey of like, the more you are open and you are in your body, this pleasure of like, wow, I’m experiencing something and it’s helping me expand. And it’s helping me ultimately to create right. Every single lesson, every single learning, it helps you grow.

Lisseth Makhael (47:11):

It helps you build, you know, that mission right. About others, right. Is helps any helps you contribute. You, Just doing you. Even if you let’s say you’re not doing anything for the world right now, I’m going to say doing anything from the world because, you know, I’m saying like something like building a platform or building a company, whatever that is, right. You’re calling you are already doing, you are already contributing to the world to consciousness by you doing your inner work. Because as your energy shifts, as you shift, that creates a ripple effect, that information goes into consciousness and it affects everyone. So you already are doing it regardless.

Amanda Testa (47:58):

Thank you so much for that. Lisseth. It’s interesting that you mentioned that too. Cause it’s funny because this morning I was just writing down all, there’s a much, many emotions going on today because it’s election day. Right. And what my fears are anyways. So then I was like writing, okay. What, what would I love to see? And then just writing those qualities and like, how can I invite this more in myself, even more right now, more than ever, because that’s what it’s going to take because I’m afraid of the outcome or whatever might happen is like, we have to embody those qualities that we want. We have to be the leaders that we want to see. We have to, you know, do those things. So I appreciate you saying that it’s so key and I, that was so much fun talking with you and for everyone that wants to connect and learn more about how they can work with you and just follow your work. Can you share a little bit more about where everyone can find you.

Lisseth Makhael (48:51):

Yes. Thank you so much, Amanda, for that prompt. Well, I hung out a lot in my Facebook group, my Facebook community, it’s the quantum playground for visionary leaders and change makers. And I would say that’s a really good Avenue. There’s also my newsletter. You know, I’m actually starting due to how social media is going. As you know, where our throat chakra is in a lot of construction and expansion in social media, them being the bosses apparently of what we say or not say. So I would say, join me in my, in my list, you know, path yourself.com. There is a lot of resources that I have. I have right there in my, in my website. You’ll see also things like activation with your spirit guides, since we talk about it. And there’s a signature program right there for people that want to dive deeper or learning to go more and more into their inner work. So if anything, again, you know, join me in the newsletter and I stay connected. I do. I want to say this is like, when people respond, you know, when I send my newsletter and I’m always like asking, Hey, what is your take? I do read every single email that they send back. So feel free to start or continue their communication that way. So yeah.

Amanda Testa (50:12):

Yes. Thank you so much again, and everyone it’s been a pleasure today. This has been wonderful talking with Lisseth Makhael And one more thing, I’ll put all in the notes this, but just to make sure, you know, you can go to path to yourself.com and that’s her website. And I’ll also make sure to put in this note, the show notes where you can connect and find her on her Facebook group. I’ll put all those links in the show notes as well. And thank you so much again, this has been so fun. Yes. And thank you all for listening. Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at www.amandatesta.com/activate, And we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook in the group Find Your feminine fire group. And if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

It’s noT You, It’s The Patriarchy.

In this week’s podcast episode I’m talking with Sex Therapist Joanne Bagshaw, PhD,LCPC about low desire, feminism, and women’s sexuality.

Listen to discover how the patriarchal culture hurts our relationships, and how to bring back your desire even in times of COVID.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

In this episode you’ll discover

How the patriarchal culture makes us feel like we’re not enough. How our culture gaslights us, and how this affects our relationships.How to be aware of power imbalances and create boundaries.How COVID has impacted women and our desire.How desire really functions.The truth about spontaneous sex.How to rebuild intimacy when there has been a prolonged winter in your relationship. What to do when you realize you’ve built a lifestyle around avoiding pleasure.and much more!

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD, LCPC  is  an award-winning professor of psychology and women’s studies at Montgomery College. She is also an AASECT-certified sex therapist with a private practice in Maryland, and she is the author of “The Feminist Handbook: Practical Tools to Resist Sexism and Dismantle the Patriarchy“ and writes the popular feminist blog, “The Third Wave,” for Psychology Today. Before respecializing as a sex and relationship therapist, Joanne was a trauma therapist, working primarily with rape and sexual assault, intimate partner violence, and adults who were abused as children. Joanne brings her nearly two decades of experience as a therapist to help clients transform their relationships and lead happier and healthier lives. From a desire to expand her impact, Joanne founded Flourish Media & Education, where she provides digital programming to help women resist sexism and flourish.Find out more about Joanne and connect with here HERE.

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a Sex Love and Relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex love and relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Hello everyone. And welcome. Thank you so much for being here today. And I am looking forward to today’s podcast because if you ever suffer from low libido or desire discrepancy among other things, I’m going to be talking with Dr. Joanne Bagshaw and she is an award-winning professor of psychology, and she’s also a sex therapist with a private practice in Maryland and the author of “The Feminist Handbook: Practical Tools to Resist Sexism and Dismantle the Patriarchy“ And she writes a popular feminist blog called the Third Wave for Psychology Today. And I am so thrilled to be talking with you today because I know you also have a deep, you know, background in working with trauma and, you know, just such great expertise. So I’m really looking forward to you sharing some of your wisdom today. So thank you thrilled to be here. Thank you. And as we dive in, I’d love, if you might just share a little bit about kind of your journey and what led you to be so passionate about this work?

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (01:16):

Well, it has been a journey. So I think where I started was certainly as a, as a trauma therapist. And I actually, even though I’ve been a therapist for decades now did not want to be a therapist. So I, in my naivete and college thought that all tha therapists did was just sit and listen to people, talk about their problems, and that sounded excruciatingly boring and dull. And why would anyone want to do that? And, but then I was in graduate school and this was my master’s degree. And I went to John Jay college of criminal justice and my master’s is in forensic psychology. So I thought that I would go into forensics and do evaluations or something, but I took a course called memory trauma and dissociation. At the same time I was working part-time for domestic violence agency and rape crisis center. And my work there was training volunteers who would go to hospital emergency rooms and meet intimate partner violence victims and rape and sexual assault victims and counsel them and advocate for them in the hospital.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (02:22):

So I also did my externship there. And when I learned about trauma therapy and applied it with working with rape victims, rape survivors at, at the agency, I worked for, it really clicked how much work was going on behind the scenes, in the mind of a therapist, particularly a trauma therapist and sequencing, sessions and calming down nervous systems and sttuning with clients and what to ask, how to ask, you know, how to help heal and resolve trauma with someone through your relationship with them in the therapy room. And it was fascinating. So I did that work for probably about 15 years before I transitioned over to sex and relationship therapy, but I still am a trauma informed therapist because trauma is you pick it up in our society, right? So it’s so common and it’s at the root of many of the issues that we struggle with. So I really do believe that all therapists should be trauma informed. So it’s not like I don’t do trauma work anymore. I just don’t do it exclusively.

Amanda Testa (03:25):

And I think that you just hit the nail on the head because there is so much just a bit of ubiquitous in our society. So yeah, and I’m, you know, and I love too how your so passionate about dismantling the patriarchy and really kind of supporting feminism and kind of the broader scope of what that looks like in real life. And so I’d love if you would share a little bit now, I know it’s very exciting because it’s coming up on the one year anniversary of your book. So, but yeah, so, and I’m curious to know how you’re, you know, what kind of really led you to write the book? What was the motivation behind that?

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (04:02):

Sure. So in my clinical experience, and in my lived experience as a woman, I have heard women question themselves. So question, what is wrong with them in a way that I’ve never heard men do. And it shows up in all women, different classes and races, different developmental stages in our lives, from how our bodies look and getting sucked into diet culture, And what’s wrong with me that I can’t diet and keep weight off and look a certain way. Even when science tells us that diets don’t work, the billion dollar diet industry tells us something else, gaslights us and blames us. So we can’t keep the weight off. So there’s that aspect, women who are new mothers who say I’m exhausted all the time, what’s wrong with me? Why can’t I just get it together and work and take care of the house and take care of the baby?

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (05:00):

Why can’t I do all these things to women being gaslit in relationships or in our culture and blaming themselves for it. And even today as a sex therapist and talk about low desire, our concept of how the, the cycle of sexual desire works is based on what’s normative for most heterosexual men and not women. So women come in and say, what’s wrong with me. I used to really crave sex and I don’t anymore. And my husband of 15 years is, you know, upset and it’s causing a lot of conflict. So what’s wrong with me. And so I wrote this book as sort of an answer to that question. And the answer is, it’s not you, it’s the patriarchy for many things. So, you know, and I took it some pushback sometimes. What about personal responsibility, et cetera, et cetera. And my answer to that is, you know, when we’re as women or really any marginalized person, when we’re putting our energy into fixing something that’s not broken and trying to, trying to meld ourselves into a racist, white supremacist culture, you know, we’re not spending energy on the things that maybe we could change that could help, like perhaps restructuring our lives in better ways by setting that more boundaries, right, by expecting more and higher quality relationships, particularly for heterosexual women in their heterosexual marriages, you know, demanding, demanding more equality at home, those sorts of things.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (06:48):

So the question isn’t, it’s not as if the patriarchy is responsible for everything it’s responsible for a lot. And in particular, our questioning ourselves and our high rates of diagnoses of PTSD, anxiety, eating disorders and depression.

Amanda Testa (07:05):

I mean, I think that is, I love when you said trying to fix something that’s not broken. And that to me, just to hit so deeply because, you know, we are, there’s such in our culture, especially here in the U S you know, that drive to look a certain way, or there’s only one way things can be, and then you have to be able to do it all and manage all the things. And like you said, you know, the instances of eating disorders and the instances of, you know, constantly feeling not enough. And, you know, even for men, you know, like the depression in men and suicide rates in men, like there’s the patriarchy really doesn’t serve anyone. And I think that I just really want to reiterate that part of like really knowing it’s not you, it’s our culture.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (07:48):

Yeah. And that’s exactly right.

Amanda Testa (07:50):

Yeah. And so, and I’m wondering too, you know, you mentioned gaslighting, I think that’s such a huge thing, but just to clarify a little more, because maybe people are out there listening and like, I’ve heard this term, but what exactly does it mean? Because I really, you know, want to dive in a little bit more about how our culture gaslights us.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (08:07):

So gaslighting is embedded in our culture, and that’s why it happens so frequently. But what is it? I don’t think the examples of how it shows up in the culture, but basically it’s a way that someone or a system can distort your reality into taking on their reality. Right? So you’re being manipulated to believe something that is false. And I want to normalize it in a sense in that it is so common because I often hear people say, why does this keep happening to me? And it’s not, you know, again, it’s not used to patriarchy, but also it’s so deeply embedded in our culture. When we say things like love, will hear he’ll racism, or we refer to enslaved peoples as immigrants in textbooks, things like that, where we don’t acknowledge genocide of American Indians, et cetera. So, you know, in those ways you can see how systems have power to alter the reality of the people that they’re feeding.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (09:08):

Right? So it’s no surprise that those dynamics too, would also show up in relationships. And they do, particularly when there is a power imbalance in some way, not exclusively. Because the other part I want to say is sometimes people, people Gaslight as a way to avoid conflict. So it’s not the intention. Isn’t always nefarious. It isn’t always to be harmful and abusive. And so knowing that it’s helpful, you know, if you understand that someone is saying might say, I didn’t say what you just heard, heard me say, right? Well, I didn’t say that, you know, that they, they, their intention might not be to confuse and distort your reality, but to avoid a conflict, but, you know, but that’s not the impact. The impact is on, you know, when you’ve been gaslit is anxiety and depression and self blame and confusion, and this realness of what is even real anymore.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (10:05):

And there are some vulnerability factors for being gaslit certainly a power and balance because without the power of balance, you know, you, somebody wouldn’t have the power over you to influence you in that way. So that’s why it can also show up at your workplace, right? We’ve all had some experience of a coworker or a boss who was gaslighting, but other things like empathy. So empathy is a wonderful quality to have. Of course, we all want to have lots of empathy, but for those of us who have what I would say almost too much empathy or not enough boundaries around their empathy will take on the reality of another person. Right? And so you, because you see a situation through their perspective, and that makes you vulnerable to being gaslit by someone who might take advantage of your empathy. So, you know, my recommendation is to replace empathy, with caring, concern, right? That’s a different level, right? We’re so where you can, you can be interested in what somebody else is struggling with and say, wow, that sounds really hard, but you don’t have to take anything on, you don’t have to take on their feelings for them. Right. So that’s a boundary.

Amanda Testa (11:24):

I love that. That feels huge. You know, even just when you said that my nervous, system’s like, Oh yeah, there’s a way out because, you know, yeah. Especially like, even in our household, there’s been some intense, you know, things happening and I can find myself just feeling like, Oh, and so I really have to be careful noticing when that’s happening, but I love that caring, concern, that kind of reframe.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (11:49):

Absolutely that there’s a way out, because empathy is feeling what someone else’s feeling from their perspective. Right? And so we need empathy in relationships for them to thrive, but not so much that you’ve given up your own feelings. And now you can only see the scenario through another person and you can see that dynamic real clearly in a relationship where there’s someone who’s narcissistic or somewhere on that spectrum. Right. Cause it is a spectrum or abusive, or has an addiction where you feel so much care-taking and empathy for them that you really just set aside your own self for them. And now you’re sucked into a whole other world and you have to get yourself out of it.

Amanda Testa (12:33):

Right. And I think too, even I noticed just because of this, like the culture that we live in, you know, even in a lot of relationships, heterosexual relationships, where, for example, I have like a lot of women clients who are like, well, you know, my husband does all this and I feel like he’s so tired and I need to take on more and just like, kind of that people pleasing part too. Right. It shows up so much like that. Could you speak to that a little bit?

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (12:55):

Sure. I think of people pleasing also as a trauma response. And so it’s a behavior that you learned to do to moderate someone else’s nervous system, right? So your, your trying to lower someone else’s stress, but again, like what about you? What about your nervous system? And I, I’m glad you brought up a heterosexual couple thing in particular, because the way that gaslighting shows up in a large number of heterosexual couples is around emotional domestic labor, right? So we’re seeing particularly with COVID right now, the impact on women impact on women who are mothers who are having to leave the workflow workforce. Like thousands of women are, have to leave their job because they’re, we’re already doing three times the amount of work at home and taking care of a house, taking care of the kids and all the emotional labor. And now they’re monitoring virtual learning and you can’t do it.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (13:52):

So when researchers interview heterosexual, men, men will respond and say, I absolutely support my wife in working and having a thriving, successful career, but in practicality, in real life, when she says, Hey honey, I have a meeting and can’t get the kids after school. Can you get them? He will not rearrange his schedule to do so generally, you know, we’re talking in generalities. So the idea of saying, yeah, I absolutely support my wife and working, having a thriving career, but I’m not actually going to accommodate her schedule in any way and help in that way. It’s gaslighting and it’s maddening.

Amanda Testa (14:35):

Yes. I hear that a lot. So I, you know, I can relate to that with my clients as well. And one of the things you mentioned that I would love to loop back around to, you know, especially with COVID and all the additional responsibilities that many, you know, women are faced with and just in general, the stress that has on relationships, because I know we were going to talk about low sex drive in general, but I think with the pandemic and with being quarantined, I’m hearing from a lot of people, like we just it’s like that desire is just not there. And I would love if you could speak to that a little bit.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (15:04):

Sure. So let’s talk about the way that desire functions and, you know, we’ve been, we’ve been conditioned to believe that desire and our sexual response cycle is linear, right? So meaning it starts with desire, leads to arousal, then orgasm then resolution, which is like baseline and then repeat. And that’s the way it goes. And that’s, what’s normal and healthy for everyone. Well, it is normal and healthy for the majority of heterosexual men, but this is not the way that, you know, women’s sexual response cycle works for the majority of women. So for most women, the sexual response cycle is circular. So that means that desire can show up at, at any time. And for many women, it shows up after we are aroused. So that means that after you have been exposed to a sexual cue, you’ve been flirting, your partner touches you in a certain way.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (16:01):

You’ve read erotica, you know, whatever it is that works for you. But once you start to get aroused, now you have a craving for sex, but other things that influence desire, also the quality of our relationships, our stress level. So when the quality of our relationships is great, that, you know, keeps us more open for getting, going with sex and, and building up desire. But when there are conflicts, particularly if they’re unresolved or ongoing or chronic, that puts the brakes on desire. So, you know, it’s, what’s important for women to understand, you know, when they call and they might be like, yeah, I know, you know, the pandemic, whatever. I just, I don’t really feel very sexual. What’s wrong with me. It’s really nothing. Let’s look at all of the ways that you’re being impacted by what’s going on around you. And it’s pretty typical response. I know I’ve said normal a couple of times as a sex therapist. I don’t like to say normal in terms of sex, but I do mean statistically normal, but that’s a typical response for your sex drive your desire to be impacted by your relationship, by cultural stress, by political stress, by your hormones, changing, you know, lots of things, you know, body image struggles, all of those things.

Amanda Testa (17:20):

And I think a big part of the, you know, the work around connecting to your desire, or even just nourishing that part of yourself is no, you have to have that first baseline of nervous system regulation. So with all the stress and everything else, of course your body is going to have zero desire to go there. If it doesn’t feel like it is safe enough, it doesn’t feel like there’s, you know, there’s enough ability, capacity to be there. So,

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (17:47):

And stress and are incompatible with arousal. So, you know, so, and that’s also one of the, you know, most sex therapists do this, but you know, the, the most effective sort of like homework for couples is to plan intimacy dates because when you’re working full time and you have kids and you’ve been living together and long-term relationships finding time to have regular sex is not so easy. And so when you have to plan it and couples will, you know, at first many get turned off by that idea, like, cause it’s still buying into this, et cetera, good, healthy sex idea is spontaneous, right? And that’s, that’s not accurate because if you back up and you look at when you were dating, when you said sex was spontaneous and you didn’t have to plan it, you were planning it because somebody likely got birth control, people, you know, the two of you were grooming or shaving or buying perfume or outfits, you know, all the things that we do to prepare for dates, which is preparing for sex, right?

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (18:53):

So it wasn’t spontaneous. It was planned. So, so planning sex helps set up the stage that if, you know, Saturday afternoon is your time. And by the way, for most women at night before bed is not a great time, but Saturday afternoon might be because you can have a chance to, to relax your nervous system to take the time that you need. And that’s another thing that I tell couples and most women and men don’t know is that on average for many women, it takes 20 to 40 minutes of quote unquote foreplay for peak arousal. And I say, quote, unquote, foreplay, because all sex play is sex, right? So you know, I want to move away from the idea that penetrative intercourse is the Holy grail of sex, because that’s not the case. So, but you know, so if you plan time and you accommodate that you need time for arousal, the more than likely you’re going to have a really good sexual experience. So planning time to relax your nervous system, planning time for arousal, and you don’t have to spend literally 45 minutes doing quote-unquote foreplay because it starts before the bedroom, right? If you know, Saturday afternoon, is your intimacy date. You, you know, you’re thinking about it during the week. So that is a sexual cue. You can touch your partner, you know, looking forward to Saturday, you know, whatever you guys, you know, couples do that works for them. But you know, you’re bringing it up in conversation that all counts as time spent towards increasing your arousal.

Amanda Testa (20:33):

And I think, you know, I, I think, like you say, there’s so many people that have a lot of pushback around it, but it is so true. You kind of sometimes need to be able to have that carved out because when you have a busy life, when you have kids, when you have all the things, if you don’t have it as a priority, it will not happen. And maybe for a little bit of time, that feels okay. But then months, years go by and all of a sudden you’re like I have a roommate or whatever it is. Right. So, but one of the things you mentioned that I think is so clear on that too, is, you know, having that regular time of connection and yes, if any kind of sexual activity happens great. But if not, that’s okay too, because there are those times where maybe your partner does something to really you off right before you’re supposed to have your scheduled date. But I think showing up and just even bringing that, like bringing whatever’s there and being together is such a great way to build that trust with one another, to build that capacity of feeling safe in their presence. So your body is more willing and able to even relax and open and be, be desiring, right? Like you said that.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (21:31):

Absolutely. Yeah. And that’s why I call it an intimacy date and not a sex date because all sex has to be, you know, coming from enthusiastic consent and I have to have sex Saturday afternoon and let’s allow for life. So somebody is going to be sick. Somebody hurt their back, you know, like all the things that could happen. It doesn’t mean that you can’t be intimate during that time. And having an open, honest dialogue about something that’s bothering you is intimacy, but it does help. You know, when you have that, when you have what I call this maintenance sex date set up. So if your baseline bottom is is one time, you know, having sex once a week and you set that up and you have that going regularly, that intimacy date it’s so much easier to have spontaneous sex because you’re already having your existing sex life is continuous, right? So, but when you don’t plan sex, you don’t plan intimacy. And like you said, it’s a month goes by it’s two months. And for sure, I get couples that call and say, it’s been six months, it’s been a year and we don’t know what to do because now you, you can’t just start by having sex. Again, you have to rebuild your romance, starting with intimacy dates, not necessarily with sex, starting with holding hands, go for a walk, start talking about what’s been bothering you. Things like that.

Amanda Testa (22:54):

I mean, I think that’s so huge because the wooing aspect is so fun that oftentimes in long-term relationships that can be, you know, kind of put to the wayside. But I always joke, like at brushing your teeth goes a long way. Even just taking some efforts to show your partner, that you do care and you, you know, are excited to connect in whatever way that looks like.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (23:16):

Yeah. You know, we have the image from movies and TV that, you know, when you meet your life partner that, you know, having sex, all that just is so easy and you never have to work at it. But the reality is relationships are hard and we have to work at them and working at them includes planning sex. So, you know, if we could just reeducate everyone that if you want a long-term relationship, be prepared to work and you know, you will reap the rewards of that work. But if you just think relationships are set it and forget it and you know, everything will be great. Yeah. You’re going to be struggling at some point for sure.

Amanda Testa (23:56):

And one of the things I just want to loop back to you just to get your perspective on, because I know oftentimes this is a specific example for many women in heterosexual relationships, I’ll hear that. Well already have so much to do. Like I have to be in charge of everything. And now I’ve got to do the sex date too. And it’s just like one more thing for me to do. So I’d love for you to share some insight around that or, or some support for women who feel that way.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (24:18):

That’s a really, really good question because that comes up a lot. And that is sort of the, the center of the issue for women who come in with low desire is that they’ve built a lifestyle around avoiding pleasure. Yeah. Like getting stuff done. You, you are not on this earth just to get stuff done. This is your life. You are entitled to pleasure you’re in. And if you’re, you know, and certainly if you’re having mediocre sex, you’re not going to be incentivized to, to have sex, but then let’s talk about what you need. And so that you can communicate that to your partner. But also I teach women to, to restructure their lives, to look for pleasure, to be pleasure seekers. So, and I mean everyday pleasure because you know, everyone is like, yeah, well, pleasure would be going to Europe. I mean, I would love to go to Italy right now, but we’re in a pandemic, right.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (25:19):

So we can’t do that. So, and those things are great, but you have to be able to find the small ways that you can, that you can incorporate in your everyday life, like really enjoying a cup of coffee or tea. If you’re a tea drinker, really enjoying drinking, a nice glass of wine, savoring, a delicious meal, going for a walk and feeling the sunlight on your skin, you know, so, and, and for everyone, pleasure is going to be different, but it’s essential for your self care because it helps you regulate your nervous system. Again, we were not put on this earth just to get things done, right? So we have this wonderful body and wonderful nervous system that will allow us to feel joy and pleasure if we let it in. So for the women who are like, I don’t have time for that. Like I want to say, okay, like, how is the sex in your relationship and are your orgasming? You know, and if not, let’s talk about that and what you need. Some of it really is about reeducation around arousal patterns and asking for what you need. And also let’s talk about, you know, your lifestyle and where are you getting pleasure? Because if you’re living with someone who is like, I’ll give you pleasure every Saturday, you know, like, why aren’t you taking that up? You know, you, deserve it.

Amanda Testa (26:39):

I think that is so key. Like pleasure is something I preach all the time because it it’s so something we have to de condition ourselves around, right. That we aren’t able to enjoy life, that we have to martar ourselves or that we need to be taking care of everyone else and it’s selfish or whatever guilt comes up for, you know, letting your kid watch a show and taking a nap or whatever it could be. Right.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (27:02):

Absolutely. And this is totally gender role conditioning because as women, you know, we’re taught to be the caretakers of the world to put everyone else first to think about, I’ve gotta fold my kids laundry, you know, I gotta, you know, do something for someone else and we are the last people to be taken care of. But again, that’s not why we’re here and what, whatever reason you’re here in this world, in your belief, I’m certain, it’s not just to fold the laundry.

Amanda Testa (27:31):

So true. So true. So anyways, but I was just saying that, I think it’s so fun when you can give yourself that permission to not call the laundry or skip vacuuming and go play with your kid, or, you know, not clean up the kitchen and maybe spend some time connecting with your partner. Right. It’s a fun way. You know, like you say, create more pleasure and have more fun and sometimes letting go in realizing, guess what? The world did not collapse because I did not put away the dishes.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (28:00):

That’s right, exactly. The world is not going to collapse over the dishes, however, your relationship to yourself, and even potentially your marriage might, if you’re not really taking care of your needs and letting your needs be a center of your life.

Amanda Testa (28:16):

So true. And I think that also comes into, you know, bringing back that desire is when you do start catering to your own needs and desires and even tuning into what those are, it kind of just brings that part of you more alive. So would you speak to that a little bit more?

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (28:32):

So, yes. So pleasure is a life giver, right? And it is energizing. It not only calms your nervous system, but reinvigorates it. So the more that you seek out and experience pleasure, the more that you seek out and experience pleasure. And then before, you know, it, you know, you’ve changed your lifestyle.

Amanda Testa (28:54):

And I’m curious too, you know, one of the other things we, you know, I think this loops back around to you as well is, you know, that kind of quote unquote theory of mismatched libidos, or, you know, the difference in desire. And I mean, I think these things are also connected because, you know, if you aren’t enjoying pleasure of you’re in that constant to do, and maybe you’re taking on most of the responsibility and then the partner is not, so maybe they do have more capacity. And so I would love if you could speak to that a little bit too, if you don’t mind.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (29:22):

Yeah. I think that’s, that’s a real issue. And I do want to say that there, there are couples that have mismatched desire. That’s not necessarily this dynamic, right. That that really can, it does happen. But you know, what I do see a lot of is, is what you just explained. So, you know, if, if she is doing everything right, and, and also men can have, can come in with low desire, and I’ve certainly worked with lesbian couples with low desire. I have not had clinical experience working with gay men with that experience, but, you know, so, so men can have low desire when they also have relationship conflicts. Like they do also need to feel safe and comfortable in their relationship. So they may not feel incentivized for sex or that maybe, you know, avoiding sex for some of those same reasons. But I like what you said, where it’s, she’s doing everything and he is doing much less, he has the capacity to, to have sex where she’s falling asleep.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (30:28):

So I do hear that a lot. You know, we’re at night, he’s like, well, you know, I’m in bed and I’m ready, but she just falls asleep. She just collapses into sleep. And it’s like, well, yeah, she’s exhausted. So what do you need to do to help her be less exhausted? And you know, some of that is also on her and giving up control over things, you know, I have to do this. It has to be a certain way. And it has to be the ad done at that time. And I can’t give anything to anybody else. So, you know, there’s definitely a give and take there.

Amanda Testa (30:59):

I think that’s so key. And being able to, like you said, let go of how it has to look and just let yourself be supported. I think being able to receive that as a big, a big part of it.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (31:11):

Absolutely. And I do want to acknowledge that there are men in the world who pretend to be inept,, they can’t do the laundry, they can’t manage to fold towels. You know, like, like, come on guys, you can do it. Yeah. You can do it. And I see through you, so knock it off. So, you know, that exists, but, but, you know, relationships are more complicated than that. There’s usually some give and take and some dynamic that’s going on where both parties need to readjust the way that their pattern that they’ve created.

Amanda Testa (31:43):

I think the other thing too, around that, that you mentioned is, you know, it is, I also see a lot of instances where it is maybe in heterosexual relationships, the male that has less desire. And I know that can be really hard for women, but I also think, you know, this is where a lot of things come up that maybe, haven’t been addressed, like perhaps past traumas and things like that, that can come to the surface. And in relationships obviously is where a lot of these things rear their heads again. Right. And so I think kind of redefining, like you said too, like what sex looks like and having it be not just like, it looks on TV or in porn, right. It’s definitely not like that.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (32:17):

Yeah. It’s definitely not like that. And it’s better for couples to have choices in how to have sex, if you can, if sex is only one way, you know what you know, and it’s, that’s usually we’re talking about straight couples that is penetrative intercourse. If that’s the only way that you can have sex, you know, what happens when somebody has an injury, you’re not going to have sex for months because you know that you can’t physically do it the way that you’re used to. So, or it’s ill, you know, I’ve seen that happen. One, one, couple, you know, some, they both had chronic injuries and they couldn’t have sex the way they were having. So they just stopped and then they didn’t know how to restart. And really all they needed to do was just try a different position and to, to, to be more flexible. So having flexible definitions of what sex is, it’s only going to enhance your sex life because of all the possibilities.

Amanda Testa (33:15):

And the thing, the thing about that too, that’s so helpful. That’s when it’s beautiful to have a professional, to help you understand what other options there are, because there are so many bonding behaviors and other intimacy acts of intimacy that you can use to, you know, create that connection.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (33:30):

Right. And that’s where a sex therapist comes in.

Amanda Testa (33:34):

So yeah. And I’d love if you would share, you know, if there, I know we’ve, I could feel like I could just keep talking to you for hours. Cause I love these conversations, but you know, I’d love to know too, if there’s any specifically tips that you could advise people, maybe there’s someone listening, thinking, okay, this sounds like this is really all resonating with me. So what would maybe be some things I could do to move towards more pleasure or to move towards getting support or whatever it may be.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (34:01):

So, you know, number one, I, I recommend talking to a female audience that you start setting boundaries and again, boundaries are not like just running around saying no to everyone. Sometimes that is what it needs to be, but it’s more along the lines of how do you want your life to be and let’s structure it so that, you know, you’re being taken care of. So setting boundaries, being clear and specific about asking for help, say, I need you to get the kids every Wednesday and Thursday after school period, that’s it be really clear and specific? I do find in general, many women do not ask specifically and clearly and directly for what they want. Their male partners actually really appreciate being told whether it’s about sex or it’s fast to be clear, don’t let them figure it out and to be a pleasure seeker, just like every single day, look for ways to, to feel pleasure in your body.

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (35:01):

And, and yes, that includes sex, but you know, you know, sex, isn’t just, just for you and your partner, it’s also for you, right? So find ways to feel good in your body. And just starting with those three things are actually really huge. I don’t want to say like, Oh, you can just easily go off and do it because, you know, structuring your life around pleasure is kind of a good thing. So, you know, try to take on little pieces at a time that you can win at, right. That, you know, you can change this specific thing. So you feel good and then you add something else.

Amanda Testa (35:35):

Thank you so much for that. And I’d also love it. Maybe if there was a question that you really wish that I would asked that I didn’t, or maybe any last words you’d like to leave the listeners with today,

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (35:46):

I would, I, my motto is it’s not you, it’s the patriarchy. And whenever you start saying to yourself in your mind, what is wrong with me? I want you to remember, but Joanne Bagshaw said, it’s not me, It’s the patriarchy because chances are, it really is. And then once you stop questioning, what’s wrong with you put that aside and then look at the situation from a realistic point of view and you can make changes.

Amanda Testa (36:16):

I love that. And where can everyone find out where to get your book and learn more about you?

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD (36:22):

Sure. So you can find me on my website, joannebagshaw.com And there are links to where you can get my book. Of course it’s on Amazon, but I always recommend independent bookstores. I also have a course on gaslighting if people are interested and I have a course coming out called Ignite, which is on low desire for women. So if you’d like to get on the wait list for that, please do.

Amanda Testa (36:47):

Beautiful. Thank you so much. And I will make sure to, for everyone listening to put all this information in the show notes where you can find out more and thank you so much again for being here today. I’ve loved this conversation. Thank you for having me so much fun. Yay. And thank you all for tuning in. We will see you next week. Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at www.amandatesta.com/activate/, And we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook . Find your feminine fire group. And if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

How To Feel Supported when the world seems scary

This week I’m talking with my friend, colleague, and client Lea Bett, founder of the Life Work Lab on how to feel supported when life feels scary, how to use our bodies as a tool to metabolize the emotions we are feeling, and what it is really like to work with a sex coach. 

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

In this episode you’ll discover

How empowering your feminine nature can create a more magnetic presence, and also boost your business.How to become more centered, grounded and resourceful during stressful times.How to tap into collective support, and what that can look like. What can help support you to move through the intense ups and downs that we are experiencing.   How to come back to your center when you feel lost in the storm. How to move through grief when it is so painful. How your sexual energy can provide nourishment and resource. What it is really like to work with a sex coach.and much more!

I was so grateful to connect with Lea and dive more deeply into some topics that are heaving on our hearts right now.  Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!Find out more about Lea and connect with here HERE.

Connect with Amanda and schedule a confidential heart to heart HERE.

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex love and relationship coach. And in this podcast, my guests and I talk Sex, Love and Relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Today I am thrilled to be talking with my dear friend, and founder of The Life Work Lab, Lea Bett. Welcome Lea!Thank you so much for being here.

Lea Bett (00:31):

Thank you for having me. This is exciting

Amanda Testa (00:34):

And we are just going to dive in and talk about whatever you know, is really alive around what it actually looks like to work with a sex and relationship coach or any questions people may have. And so, yeah, so we’re just going to dive on in and again, Lea, thank you so much for being here. I always just value you so much. And I really think one of the things that I appreciate about you is just how you are so supportive of spirited leaders in helping them design, authentic life work and how you know, you’ve helped me so much too, and just my branding and clarity. So thank you for that.

Lea Bett (01:16):

Oh, thank you. That’s nice to hear. I think we have this in common that we both all about empowering women and, and so yeah, at the bottom, the bottom line, that’s what I am all about empowering women in the world people who identity empowering the feminine really, I should say.

Amanda Testa (01:36):

Yeah. And I know one thing too is also, you know, a big part of what you practice and teach is around movement and that as well, like your conscious dance and meditation. And so, you know, just having that similar understanding of, of the important parts of embodiment and doing the work as well.

Lea Bett (01:54):

Yeah. I, I feel like my body of work it’s constantly, like, I think I know what it is, but it’s actually something else. And so like the dramatics piece, I am obsessed with embodiment and somatics and it’s not something I’m pursuing like in a linear way. I just can’t get enough of it. I need it. I’m eating it up, diving in it. Yeah. That’s becoming the biggest piece of my work right now. And maybe specifically too, I think we’re all in an interesting year with so many challenges, so many massive, massive collective and personal challenges. So we all need so much more care. So I mean, like in my embodiment work like probably literally four times as much as I used to be, which was always a daily practice. So it’s an important tool, important resource. And I love that. So that is like, I love the way you lead and teach embodiment work. Oh gosh, it’s so delicious. And you have such an arsenal. I feel like you’re, I don’t know, maybe well-trained and just have this whole, this whole body of tools. And then I feel like you have a really unique way of bringing it all together. Like I, I, my impression is that you have studied and learned all these practices, but you’ve also been teaching enough to find your own way in it, which is a really wonderful experience on the other end.

Amanda Testa (03:31):

Well, thank you very much for that reflection. I do. You know, I do feel like that embodiment piece is a big part, the somatic piece, because that’s one of the reasons why I was so attracted to this work in the first place, because I remember for myself part of the work that I did that kind of got me on this path as a sex and relationship coaches, many of you have heard my story before, but there’s a specific time in working with my mentor, Layla Martin. And she had a course, it was around working with the Jade egg. And I thought, well, you know, it was all around spicing things up in the bedroom, this, that, and the other, I was like that can’t hurt. And after doing that course, what I realized it was yes, partly about spicing things up in the bedroom, but really a lot about connecting to yourself deeply.

Amanda Testa (04:11):

And, you know, just the somatic work in doing the practices released so much residual shame and trauma. And it was amazing. I was just, my mind was blown. And so I thought there’s something to this, you know? And then the more I’ve studied learned about it really, it makes so much sense, right? Because so much we hold onto is stored in our bodies and we’re often so unaware of it, it’s on such a subconscious level. And so really just giving your body gentle opportunities to release that, to, you know, let things move through, let the stress stress cycles complete that are frozen sometimes, over time , and kind of give those a gentle opportunity to release. So you can just free up so much energy and life force and open up to more of what you want to bring into those spots. Right?

Lea Bett (04:58):

Yeah. My, my general sense of the body in that, I think you’ve spoken about cellular consciousness before. I’m not quite sure I get my information so many directions, but my general sense is that our bodies are so beautifully designed and so innately intelligent and, and by nature, very healthy and just thriving, but then there’s so many influences. Culturally, I think collectively, personally from our experience, our more intimate experiences, familiar experiences, community experiences. And it’s my sense is that we, because of those viewpoints, we pinch off our own natural thriving and, and then the embodiment work is just, like, getting back into that healthy, natural way of being, and kind of just gently unfolding the, the layers of resistance or trauma that block that. Yeah. And it’s, it’s powerful. It’s interesting that you said the way you, you talked about your journey that you said, you know, your teacher was offering a Jade Egg workshop and you were just like like spicing things up in the bedroom that can’t hurt.

Lea Bett (06:22):

That’s funny because I feel like that’s how I ended up in, your work, and doing some work with you. Cause it’s like, if you asked me if I want a sex love relationship coach, like this has changed a little bit, but in general, I’ve, I’ve kind of felt like, well, that’s not really my priority. And, and that is generally goes pretty well for me. Although as I get more and more deeply into it, it’s like, there’s just tremendous depth to dive deeper into. But my draw to your work in the beginning had more to do with business, because it was like I was already really drawn to, and in the work of empowering the feminine and feminine presence. And I just, you know, we were already connected. We met as real life book club leaders and, and you know, you were, you were beginning this work and just really loving it and just really beginning to radiate.

Lea Bett (07:21):

And so in the beginning it was just like, I just, I want to be more, feel more embodied and to have kind of a more magnetic presence for my business is what I saw. And this is one of those things where it’s like, I, I think I know what my work is about, or I think I know what I’m pursuing, but it’s really something else. And yeah. And so this, this, this work that I have done with you has been so much more than I could have fathomed. And, and actually I think I’m somewhere in the middle of it or I don’t, I don’t know. There’s probably not really a middle, I think it’s bottomless, but you know, it’s like, I’m getting the sense that there’s just so much more than I could have ever fathomed, not knowing much about it.

Amanda Testa (08:05):

And I’m curious, in what ways have you noticed, you know, what, what things have you noticed perhaps, you know, you mentioned you started out, well, I wanted to become more embodied, or kind of feel that feminine presence, more in your business and be able to bring that, but I’m wondering how it showed up for you by chance in your business or maybe elsewhere

Lea Bett (08:23):

Yeah, well, I think sort of by nature and by culture, I have kind of a strong mental orientation, very intellectually oriented. And, and so I think I did like a six week course of you in the beginning. And what I remember is I remember doing like a five senses experience and, you know, just getting out of the head and into the five senses. And I remember eating, eating strawberries in a very present way and smelling them and feeling them and tasting them and everything. And it was just like a heightened consciousness. Yeah. And there’s something about that quality of presence that’s just different. And it’s, it’s like, I think the, the brain and the intellect are limited in a way in terms of intelligence, even, you know, so it’s sort of like opened up this way of drawing on the whole being. And I also think it’s a way of bypassing, if some of our limitations come from the way we think about our bodies, for example, ourselves getting out of the head and into the body, it’s sort of like jumping over a fence or something, and then being right in the field, kind of on the other side, looking at it,

Amanda Testa (09:51):

That’s so true. And I noticed that in myself too, cause even today I had a session with one of my coaches and it was amazing because I realized when I get in these spaces of being in my head often, it’s like this hyper aroused state, like all the questions and all the things, and I’m worried about this and I have to do that and what’s the right decision and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then taking that time to really like drop in notice, okay, what’s coming up for you around this and digging in deeper beneath that. Like, what is that pain in your gut telling you what is there what’s beneath that and like giving yourself the opportunity to kind of release and connect to these different parts of you who maybe you’ve not paid attention to, or maybe they just need to express something.

Amanda Testa (10:32):

And then, you know, having a way to allow that part of you to speak and be heard, but also at the same time dropping in feeling resourced, like really getting into your body. And afterwards it’s like night and day. So all that mind, chatter shuts down, you’re grounded. You feel centered, you feel connected to the resourceful, creative part of you that can make informed decisions from a place of, you know, responding versus reacting. I know I say that a lot, but it’s so true because so often we are just running around like AHHH or just not taking that time to be present.

Lea Bett (11:11):

Yeah. It’s a total reversal coming from your own connection with yourself and a grounded intention. And I also, I have a feeling like you, I think you call it resourcing. I’m like having this visual right now. It’s literally like filling up with energy. If, if all of our activities, intellectual and physical activities require the use of our energy, I feel like the, the kinds of resourcing that you do fills us up. It’s literally like gaining and gathering energy.

Amanda Testa (11:48):

And I will say too, you know, just to reflect back to you, appreciating the ability you have to tap into things that support you more often than usual, especially in times like these. So you mentioned, you know, something was a daily practice and now you’ve quadrupled the amount of times you do it, which is kind of what needs to happen when things are like they are now. And so it’s finding those things that help you feel resourced. So that’s things that help you feel stable, supported, connected to something that feels like it can hold you. So whether that’s spiritual, whether that’s an animal, whether that’s an archetype, whether that’s a scene from nature, something that you can connect to and feel supported. And oftentimes it does need to be bigger than us because I think we try to hold onto so much ourselves. And one of my other mentors, Rachael Maddox, who I adore talks about how, you know, we spend a lot of time trying to solve “we” problems with “me” solutions. So for example, a lot of the collective traumas that were in a lot of the things that are going on in our culture and our world are not going to be solved by one person. But yes, the more we do the work on ourselves and the more resourced we are, the more we can come together to solve the “we” problems.

Lea Bett (13:01):

Yeah. I just heard someone Jack Kornfield, I think is his name he runs spirit rock out here in California. And he was saying, we can’t fix the whole garden. We can’t tend to the whole garden, but we can tend to our own plot. And that really, that really resonated for me because to, to try to tend to the whole garden by ourselves is overwhelming. But yeah, I like this. I like the idea of tending to our own plot. And then I like your extension of that with if we are tending to our own plot and we’re connected with other people who are, that we really can create a lot of health and beauty together.

Amanda Testa (13:42):

And if you think about that, like the web of everyone’s connectivity, obviously there’s going to be people that have more to give and people that need to be able to rest. And those that have more ability to give can step up and kind of support the ones who can have an opportunity to rest. So I feel like that too. It’s like, when you think about the, we, it feels so much more supportive, right? To think that we’re all in this together, which we are, and that we can all do our part, even if it’s just taking care of yourself. Right. I think taking care of your own plot, like you said, I love it.

Lea Bett (14:18):

Yeah. And I think I have, I know for myself, my capacity to give, or my need to receive is not static. It’s kind of ebbing and flowing. And so in that sense, if we’re in community, when I am, you know, maybe more depleted, I can fill up within community and somebody else maybe could, could be doing some giving to the larger community, you know? And then at times I’m full I’m giving and that person is, is resting and resourcing. I was curious to ask you, because I, you know, this, this is such an intense time. And for me, I I’m experiencing like really kind of ups and downs and like the like a whole cycle. I know how to take care of myself and bring myself back, but I had kind of distinctive points. I do get overwhelmed. And then it’s like, so I’m just curious, because, you know, with your practices and resources, I’m curious if you’re holding yourself steady or what could you just kind of what your experience is in all of this and how you are staying centered regardless. It’s like being in the eye of the storm, kind of like in the I’m like, okay, I’ve got it. And then I’m like, Whoa, flying. I’m like being blown back to the outside. Right.

Amanda Testa (15:49):

Well, I mean, I think part of it is that yes, with all the chaos in the world right now, it’s bound to have those moments where you’re going to be overwhelmed or that you need to sleep more, or that you need to just curl up in a ball and watch Netflix for a day or whatever it is, those things are bound to happen. And I think part of it is just allowing yourself to do what you need. Like as much as you can give yourself minutes of rest, even if you have two minutes, can you take that two minutes and just intend that it’s going to feel like an eternity because sometimes two minutes can feel quite luxurious and depending too, on what you have going on. Sometimes it’s easier than others to find time to rest and rejuvenate. I know it’s quite a privilege to be able to do that.

Amanda Testa (16:33):

So honestly, like, I think just understanding that it’s normal, especially in times like these, with all the, all the chaos in the world and the natural fires and all the things and the political climate and, you know, just everything it’s going to be triggering. It’s going to bring up all the things. And so that’s to be expected. And I think that’s why it’s been really hard, especially for anyone that has a history of trauma or anything like that, because it’s just kind of poking those wounds. So I think what for me has been helpful and what I recommend for my clients is we really spend a lot of time with the resourcing, which I know sometimes can seem like, Ugh, but it’s so important because the more that you’re meeting your base needs and really doing them, like you say, four times more than necessary, that’s what you really need to do.

Amanda Testa (17:22):

You need to write a list of all the things and do them way more and realize like, you know what, sometimes it’s just going to feel you have to be okay with just kind of feeling not okay. Sometimes knowing that you’re going to move through it. And for me, the body-based practices are what bring me back to myself where I can find like a breath and find that connection. And even just for a moment, what also is helping me is limiting my exposure to social media, the news, cause I can find myself going like down the doom scrolling rabbit hole. So it’s like really putting a timer on and being on there for 20 minutes and being done. And I did an experiment the other weekend where I was like, I’m not going to be on my phone all weekend. And I realized, because I have definitely found myself at the pandemic and everything going down that rabbit hole of becoming addicted to my phone.

Amanda Testa (18:13):

And so it was a really great thing for me to do. And you know, every time I went to pick up my phone, I had a journal and a pen and I would just write down what I was experiencing in that moment. Like, what do I see ? What am I noticing? What am I feeling? And I just realized how many beautiful moments in life that I was tuning into. And I think there’s something about that presence and like feeling gratitude for the moment that we’re in, can really help to as well, you know, kind of ease that sense of overwhelm, and also things like music, things like being in nature, things like connecting to something bigger than we are, can feel very comforting.

Lea Bett (18:50):

Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the reliefs I find in all of this is like, this is really much larger than any one of us can fathom. And so just kind of giving it to God or to the universe or whatever, you know, whatever beliefs work for you, just giving it to the bigger, the bigger picture, you know, and releasing the need for control. And that, that helps me because when I find myself trying to manage something that big, it is absolutely depleting. Yeah. I love your reminder about managing information intake and yeah. That’s, I feel like that’s the biggie right now. It’s October this month. I just, it’s always ugly in an election year. And I’d say it’s like, everything’s a hundred times worse this year, you know? So I think that’s a great reminder right now, just really being intentional. And I just, somebody just posted some little reminder of this, but I was already thinking along these lines that we, we don’t have a lot of control over what’s happening. We, you know, we have control over some things in our world, but we don’t have control over the big picture, but we have control over how we engage with it, how we respond to it and what we do with it.

Amanda Testa (20:13):

Yeah. And sometimes it can feel good to take action about the things that are important to you, like texting people to vote or, you know, even just offering help. It doesn’t have to be like a big dramatic thing. Like if you were at the store and you see someone needs help, like help the person who needs help getting something off the top shelf, or, you know, if you see someone on the side of a road, like what can you offer them? I know everybody has their own opinions about that, but I think it’s like when you see someone that needs help, how can you offer it? Or how can you ask people what they need and see how you can support others when you have the capacity, because that also helps you to feel good. And so maybe if there’s friends that you can think about that, you’re like, maybe I need to reach out to this person and just see how they’re doing. Or maybe you, I want to write a thank you note to some people that I love, or maybe I want to, you know, call a loved one or a family member, or take a walk and call a friend or all those kind of things to bring in connection to when you’re feeling that way can help.

Lea Bett (21:08):

Yeah. And I really do think that one settled person who has metabolized everything that’s going on, everything that we’ve ingested makes a huge difference to every single thing that we touch. And my personal experience is, like I said, I’m, I’m kind of up and down. But what I notice is when I, when something new has been triggered a turn of events or some specific experience, I, my first response is like a freeze response I noticed. And that you’ve got a great page of resources on your website that you put together really when I think we were early in COVID and that’s an amazing, amazing resource. I’ve shared that with a lot of people, because in that point, when we’re we’re stuck or overwhelmed, that’s a great wealth of tools for, for getting through that, getting through that, I’m thinking of it as metabolizing. And so my experience over and over again is I get overwhelmed and I kind of, I feel myself freezing and then it takes a lot of, for me, there’s a lot of movement where a lot of somatic processing to, to process and to metabolize the, what what’s feeling overwhelmed.

Lea Bett (22:28):

And then I feel activated again. So let’s say it’s social justice and you know, I’m observing what’s going on and it’s totally overwhelming. And, and, and just horrifying. And then I go through a process, I’ll listen to music for me. I listen to music that hits whatever the spot is. There’s a lot of great music that touches on social justice. So getting right in there and like working, moving with the feelings and working through them and it takes a lot, it takes a lot. It’s kind of crazy. Then I feel activated. Then after I metabolize it, it’s like, I can take, I have kind of an insight. I can take this action and that action. And that’s what I have capacity for. And that will make a difference. But my first response is I’m frozen and overwhelmed. And then it takes a lot of, a lot of processing to, to metabolize and become activated. Right.

Amanda Testa (23:23):

And that’s how so many of our systems are like, will feel like totally frozen and hypo and unable to like move forward. And in those moments, then maybe there’s something that clicks us in there. We’re like, ah, but I got to do all the things and I don’t know where to begin in lalalalala. And it’s like, sometimes you can occilate between the two. So it’s, again, really when you have like, you, you have connected to some things that help you, like taking that music and transmuting yourself through the experience, taking that, moving it through your body and then feeling like you’re digesting it so that you can do something different with energy. It’s a different quality of energy afterwards, perhaps is a big. And sometimes too, if you feel in that frozen state, like what is maybe the smallest doable thing that you can do to support yourself in that moment? Maybe what is one maybe part of you wants to stay frozen, but maybe there’s like 10% of you that wants to move towards something, whatever that is a walk,a water, calling a friend, or just like taking a nap, whatever it could be.

Lea Bett (24:23):

I always love your reminders of keeping it simple, you know, the taking two minutes to, to resource or, you know, appreciating the, just really savoring your time in the shower or the bath or, or the examples you were just mentioning, because that makes it so much more accessible than thinking. I’ve got to find four hours every day. That’s what I’m feeling like. I need like four hours everyday right now.

Amanda Testa (24:52):

I mean, and it is so connected to our sexuality because we can’t often access those levels of pleasure if we’re in a state of survival. And so whatever that looks like, you know, you have to be able to resource yourself and feel good to get into a state of pleasure often. And so it all builds on one another. Right? And so, like you mentioned earlier, we do have this natural blueprint of health and original essence within us. This part of us that is totally perfect as it is and our society or culture, whatever dampens that, or hurts that, but that’s always still there. And that is so alive in people. And that’s what I love to see too. And in clients is like having that blueprint come out to play more often and then become more empowered to come out. And then it’s, it’s so amazing to see how that blossoming happens.

Amanda Testa (25:43):

It’s like going from feeling overwhelmed or not taking care of yourself or feeling run down by family and responsibilities or feeling uncomfortable saying no, and finding yourself too much on your plate to then starting to like, okay, what are these doable steps I can take? And then starting to take those, and then you build up a little more, you know, you’re building up a little more resilience and a liveliness and that continues to build, and then you start to blossom more and more. So you are in a more expanded state more often. And that is where you can tap into more joy and more pleasure more often. And yes, you’ll still have your moments, but you have better tools. So things that maybe would knock you down for weeks will maybe take a day or, you know, you, there’s just such more capacity and resilience that you build in your system.

Lea Bett (26:30):

Yeah. I’m thinking I want to go in two different directions. So first I want to, I actually want to speak about grief for a minute and then I want, I want to ask you to talk about, about sensual and sexual energy because that’s beyond my expertise, but I that’s what I’m finding. I that’s like a resource that I feel is bigger than I can fathom. I am just kind of breaking ground or something with the potential there. And and yeah, I want to talk about that and talk a little bit about the Jade Egg practice. Well, while I have you here, but for some reason I wanted to talk first about grief because I’m thinking about everyone is going through so much right now. Everyone’s and I just, I don’t know, like it takes, it’s hard to show up for what’s going on right now.

Lea Bett (27:24):

So my, like when I feel frozen, there’s, you know, a whole variety of things that can be underneath that, but sometimes it’s really hard to just show up for, my movement practice, because what I’m actually feeling is so painful. And yesterday, for example, like I, I have a little dance now in the backyard and I sat on my mat. I put my earphones in, I didn’t even put the music on yet. And I just started crying and it was gut wrenching cry. It was like a brutal cry. And I mentioning this because I, I just, I really feel for, I just feel like it takes so much courage to show up and feel the things we’re feeling. So I just, I just kind of wanted to acknowledge that it’s not all about that. The, the pleasure sometimes is underneath the pain, I guess I want to say, because my experience over and over again is if I show up and I am so it’s like for me, I, I feel that in my body and I’ll move into it. I’ll I, and in my day to day life, I want to move away from it. I want to avoid it, but in my practice, I’ll move into it and, and just keep feeling it and moving through it. And it’s, it’s hard. But then underneath that, when I release that, it’s like, it clears, it clears me out. And then the joy, the capacity for joy is underneath that. For some reason, I just wanted to mention that, but it’s not all, you know, or yeah,

Amanda Testa (28:58):

No. And I think that is the thing too, is like, you start to feel more feeling fully all your emotions because when we’re kind of numbing, where we don’t want to go there, which is of course very common because you know, it is hard to feel the feels and we often don’t want to, and there’s not a place in our culture to do that and be celebrated. And so, you know, I think it’s creating that time and space regularly to be with what’s there and to wail, if you need to wail and to grieve and to let it fully just get to the root of you and let it out. Because once you do, usually there’s so much underneath that, like you mentioned, so maybe there’s layers that you’re going to excavate through, but you can do it a way that feels gentle and doable. And then the more you do it, the more you’re going to excavate more and more, so you can get down to like, Oh yes, this is what has beneath that. And all those things and feeling the feels is part of it. You’ve got to like sometimes just grieve. Yes. For sure. I’m totally with you there. And it makes everything you’re experiencing more rich. So you can find like the beauty in all the parts of it, even the painful, horrific parts, there’s beauty there, but there’s more like there’s just presence with it, allowing it to be.

Lea Bett (30:14):

Yeah. And I guess as a culture, I think we learn, well, I know I come from probably trying to numb. There’s a million ways you can numb those feelings and sometimes that’s okay and keeps us safe, but I guess the reward is in letting yourself feel everything. Cause you get that, that whole range of emotion. Yeah. So, yeah. So let’s talk more about the the opposite end of that. Or, or I don’t know, maybe there’s a whole gamut with, with Jade egg, but I’d love to talk more about that. I have. I remember, so I remember I did like a program with you and then Jade egg was like the next level. And I felt pretty, I guess, maybe uncomfortable with, especially in group or something like that. Like I just had a lot of reluctance, like, so it took me awhile to like learn a little bit more, a little bit more than like, okay, I’m gonna, I, I do want this. I am going to step in. And, and so I’m curious, like, I don’t even know what my questions are here. I feel like it’s this giant realm of mystery. I don’t know.

Amanda Testa (31:27):

So yeah. You know, I think specifically around the Jade egg, I know you mentioned around like sexual energy and working with that and how it all comes together. And I think the theory of the practice is based in the Taoist philosophy, where if you’re familiar at all with Chinese medicine, you know, our life force energy is created in our sexual organs, in our kidneys. And that’s kind of what that’s, what’s used to fuel our body. And so the more open our energy centers are, the more open our body is the more that is going to flow freely through our system. And the more health we’ll enjoy. And so what I love about the Jade egg is its specific practice where I think I’ve talked about this before. So many of you may be familiar, but basically it’s using an egg that’s typically made of Jade.

Amanda Testa (32:13):

And you use it like, for example, if you think about yoga, what yoga is to stretching. I like to think about what the Jade Egg ii for pelvic floor floor work, because it’s much deeper than that. There’s a sacred reverence to it. And so baically you use it internally. So you use it inside the vagina and you would do certain exercises with it, similar to how you might use a pelvic floor weight, but yet there’s a lot more depth to the practices, not just like squeeze and release, it’s definitely tapping into different, different, deeper layers of your energetic self and your sexual self. And yes, there is such opportunity for all kinds of emotions to flow during a Jade egg practice. So as you mentioned, pleasure is a piece of it, but it can also be a practice where you can use it to tune into what you need and how to give that to yourself, right?

Amanda Testa (33:03):

So maybe you need just nourishment. Maybe you need, you know, some fun sexual pleasure. Maybe you need to release. Maybe you need to tap into your inner confidence and power. So that’s what I love about the practice, because there’s so many different ways you can do it to tap into different aspects of yourself. And yet you’re using it in a way that’s tapping into our sexual creative power, right? Our sexual energy is such a creative force. And so when you mix that with anything else, it’s like quadrupling the effectiveness 10, X-ing the effectiveness, if you will. Right.

Lea Bett (33:36):

I like how you pair your day-to-day work with the other types of resourcing that you do. It’s a really, really powerful mixture I’m experiencing.

Amanda Testa (33:48):

Yeah. I mean, cause it is true. I mean, you, you can’t just like stick it in and hope for a miracle there’s specific practices around it. So you can, but it’s probably not going to get you very far.

Lea Bett (34:01):

Yeah. I remember in the beginning I was kind of like, okay, I’ve got the basics, like I’m just gonna do this and then I’ve done some more in-depth practices with you and I’m like, Oh, Oh, okay.

Amanda Testa (34:14):

I guess I would love to ask you, you know, for people maybe listening and they’re like, that sounds weird. Or I don’t know. What would you say to them about the practice?

Lea Bett (34:24):

That’s a good question. Let’s see. I mean, I, I wasn’t opposed to the practice, but for me personally, it’s I guess I feel somehow sensuality is a bit private for me. I don’t know if that’s a value or a condition. So, so there’s something about learning those practices in a group that I was like, I didn’t know what to expect. I was like, you know, are we all going to be doing this together? I just didn’t know what to expect. And I guess it can be whatever you want it to be. I’m sure it could be anything and everything, but I feel, I guess what I would say is with you, at least you get to step in, in whatever way feels safe for you and you get to do it at whatever pace feels comfortable. And so like it’s all in your charge, I guess is what I want to say.

Lea Bett (35:21):

And yeah, and for me, there’s just so much more there than I could have possibly fathomed so much more empowerment. And I’m just, I don’t know where I am in the process, but like, you know, sometimes when the practices are more advanced when your talking about dan tiens,, I don’t even know if I’m saying it right. I don’t really know. I don’t really have the background. So I like just trying to figure out what’s going on, you know, but I’m starting to experience some of that. And so it just, it feels really, really powerful and really, really healing. Yeah. So it’s just, I guess it would just be releasing your sensual energy in whatever way feels safe and wanted, which is maybe a really big deal, you know, in that area.

Amanda Testa (36:13):

That is a big part of it is being able to be in charge of your experience. Like no one should ever be pushing you. You don’t even need to use the egg. You don’t even need to touch your body. You can just have an energetic experience if you need, but it’s like tuning into what feels doable and honoring your own. Yes and no, because that’s something is for many women that’s hard to discern or maybe we’ve said no, when we, when we, or yes. When we really meant no are all the things. So it’s kind of like relearning to build that trust with yourself and your body and opening up in a way that feels doable and building that trust with yourself and your body and how that expands, the more you do the practice and then just how you can tap into these deeper States of connection and pleasure and just be an all of what your body is capable of.

Lea Bett (36:59):

Yeah. Yeah. I want to say that there’s like this real reservoir of self-love in this body of work as well. I’ve heard you say this before and I’m experiencing this where just having this gorgeous, intimate relationship that I felt it’s like, I don’t know, like I can take a handful of my, my meatier person and just like, I love it. You know? And that’s, that’s really different from what our culture teaches us about our body as women in particular. But I know there’s a variety of that from men as well,

Amanda Testa (37:34):

But I appreciate how you said that. Cause I too, it’s such a change in how I’ve I feel about my body. And I think I’ve mentioned this recently I’ve put on 10 pounds since COVID, but yet I am just doesn’t bother me one bit. I mean, for health reasons, yes. It’s probably not the best, but you know what? I honestly feel so good in my body and I don’t judge it and I don’t think badly of it. I mean, I don’t even, I used to beat myself up so much in so many women. I know struggle with like looking in the mirror and seeing all the things they hate about themselves or noticing their double chin or their wrinkles or their stretch marks or their curves or whatever it may be. And really, I think part of this big part of this practice is reclaiming yourself for yourself. It’s like you are bearing yourself to yourself. You’re claiming yourself for yourself. This is only for you and how empowering that is. Like how really radically life-changing that is.

Lea Bett (38:22):

Yeah. I think the real potential in there is just like loving ourselves unconditionally. And I think I’m finding too, nobody can love you in a way you don’t love yourself. I, to some degree, I mean, I, I love being like seeing myself through my partner’s eyes, you know, and that sort of thing, but I feel like ultimately loving ourselves unconditionally is what really sets that dynamic in motion outside of ourselves as well. I mean, we all know women who just, you know, they, they inhabit their bodies completely and they’re, they’re just gorgeous, you know, but it’s not not that pseudo, you know, contrived image that we see in the media. That’s not the real deal,

Amanda Testa (39:12):

Right? Yes. I do believe that truth, that loving ourselves unconditionally. And that does spill out into other areas because once you have that wholeness within yourself, then it’s so much easier to notice where else you can offer that to others or to have more appreciation empathy for other situations or whatever it may be.

Lea Bett (39:35):

Yeah. And I’m not sure if this is accurate, but I sort of feel like all self-development and maybe all of life experiences, it’s all a process. So you don’t, you don’t arrive. And then, you know, if the mountain tops and sing songs or something, it’s like, you just keep your, keep your own pace and you just keep going wherever you want to go.

Amanda Testa (40:01):

I always like to say that that sexuality is the missing piece and personal growth and development. It’s kind of the final frontier. So many are afraid to go there. But I tell you, if you, if you go there, you’re going to save many years off your journey because there’s so much, we hold in our sexual center so much is there. And so kind of just giving yourself the opportunity to do the work. And it, I think a lot of people think, well, what is this? Is it like you’re watching people have sex? Or what is it it’s not like that at all. It’s really, it’s about connecting to yourself and like creating the things that support you in integrating all the pieces that, that aren’t in alignment and really learning how to a weekend, the pleasure potential in yourself and you know, there’s many layers to it. So it’s, it’s a simple process yet. It’s a deep process, right?

Lea Bett (40:47):

Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s awakened in me. Like when I do so much bodywork movement practices, one of my, you know, parts of my, my body of work. But but I, but it’s the reason it is, is because my body’s so sensitive. So like I sort of have to show up for it and move through things. And so bringing that back to Jade egg, I feel like this has awakened a sensitivity of like the energy in that realm and how it’s, I don’t know if, how it’s feeling, but I can kind of like now I didn’t, I don’t think I was aware of this before, but I can feel it when it’s like bunched up. And I don’t think I had that sensitive. I don’t think I was even aware of that before. Right? Yeah. Big ellipsis on the whole Jade egg experience and conversation. I I’m so thankful to have been introduced to that by you. And I think I’ve heard you have, I heard you say that’s your favorite practice? And my, I feel like that’s like kind of your number one resource. I’m not sure if I’ve got that right.

Amanda Testa (42:02):

It is my favorite. And even if I don’t actually like, even touch my body or do anything, it’s just like, I can still do the practice energetically and it feels so good. I really just, it’s one of my favorite things because of the difference I found in my own body and in my clients, like just seeing the change that happens. I feel like it when used properly can be such a powerful tool. Yeah. So yeah. Iloved talkint with you about it.

Lea Bett (42:29):

Thank you. Yeah, my pleasure. This is super fun. Okay. I have one more question and it’s kind of just funny sends on a funny note. I was, so you have such a, when you do do your podcasts, you have such a sultry, sexy voice. And so here’s my funny question. Do they teach you that in your training?

Amanda Testa (42:54):

I actually, I think it’s just my voice, but it is funny. Cause I noticed when I am dropped in or when I teach my voice is often a lot lower and that’s just part of being like low in my body, I think. And I notice it too, because when I get more uptight or stressed out, then I can be like, my voice gets higher. But I remember when I was at camp and like third grade, one of my counselors was like, Oh, your voice, you need to be on the radio back in the day.

Lea Bett (43:24):

Yeah. That’s so funny. Yeah. It’s very, it’s like soothing and sexy. It’s like perfect for your whole body of work.

Amanda Testa (43:33):

Thank you. Yay. Well, this has been such a fun, fun conversation, Leah, thank you so much for coming back.

Lea Bett (43:41):

Yeah. Thank you for inviting me, it is always a treat to be with you.

Amanda Testa (43:48):

Yes. So I will make sure to post in the comments how you can connect with Lea. If you’re curious more about the work lab and I’ll also share how you can connect with me, if you’re curious more of exploring sexuality work or working with the Jade egg or anything along those lines. So everyone have a beautiful week and we will talk to you soon. Thank you.

New Speaker (44:12):

Thank you so much for listening to the find your feminine fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me@amandatestthe.com slash activate, and we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook and the group find your feminine fire group. And if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

Pleasure Is Fuel, not a reward

“How do we unlearn the fear and shame around our sexuality in order to change the way we connect to our bodies, our intimate partners to the world and our relationship with our spiritual self? How does our relationship to the erotic or lack thereof support or impede our ability to thrive?”

These are the questions posed by my amazing guest today,Rashida KhanBey Miller, and she invites these with her work and her practice. 

Tune in as we discuss how to invite Pleasure, Rest and Radiance is the messiness of life.  

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

In this episode you’ll discover

How to create a generous relationship to your body.How past pain and grief can wrap around your body and how to gently unravel it. The importance of allowing time to be a guide in your unlearning. How to fill your tank so it’s overflowing, vs just operating, giving yourself a reservoir to pull from.  How to use erotic dance as self care and a healing practice through the Messy Movement Lab.Why 5 minutes can be game changing in finding pleasure and rest in the messiness of life. And Rashi shares a doable way to drop into the practice you can try today!and much more!

This week I’m thrilled to be talking with Rashida KhanBey Miller (Rashi/she/her) Artist, Educator, Founder of The Messy Movement Lab, Co-Host of Podcast Queer & Married, Co-Owner of The Lingerie Boutique The Temptress’ Boudoir, and Executive Producer and Co-Star of Film Series “Sex Is A God Thing”. Born and raised in Chicago, IL,

Rashi fell in love with dance at a very young age studying Ballet, Jazz, Modern, Lyrical, and Sacred Dance spanning over 20+ years. She went on to receive her bachelor’s degree in Theatre from The University of Illinois at Chicago to launching her professional career teaching, speaking and uplifting feminine spectrum people in healing through the storytelling of movement in live classes across the U.S. and expanding into a global audience through online education.

Over the last decade, Rashi has inspired people worldwide to talk about their relationship to self-love, sensuality, and healing trauma through dance and movement as an integral part of their spiritual recovery and thriving. Rashi’s work has been featured on Gene Siskel Film Center, Sisters in Cinema, OpenTV, AfroPunk, ForHarriet, Unfit Christian, The Sexually Liberated Woman Podcast, Elephant Journal, BlackDoctors.org, ClexaCon Film Festival, The Black Femme Supremacy Film Festival, and more. Rashi currently resides in The Pacific Northwest spending her day’s co-creating in business and life with her Spouse, Ajani Miller (he/they).She created the Messy Movement Lab as a playground for healing our relationship to our bodies through dance + movement. This class provides a safe sanctuary for Feminine Spectrum people, to be able to unpack the relationship we’ve been conditioned to have to ourselves so that we can embody confidence, sovereignty, and agency in our lives. Ultimately, this studio is designed to teach you how to welcome relaxation and how to tend to tired, physical and spiritual, muscles. As we pour back into ourselves, we refill our tanks and reinvigorate our lives with a sense of connection, purpose, and joy.  

Learn more and join the lab HERE.

Click here for her training on How To Fit Self Care Into The Messy Parts Of Life.

Rashi has gifted a 15 minute practice for you to try HERE.

Follow her on Insta HERE.

Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire Podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a Sex Love and Relationship Coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk Sex, Love. And Relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Hello everyone. And welcome. How do we unlearn the fear and shame around our sexuality in order to change the way we connect to our bodies, our intimate partners to the world and our relationship with our spiritual self. How does our relationship to the erotic or lack thereof support or impede our ability to thrive? These are the questions from my amazing guests today Rashida KhanBey Miller, and she invites these with her work and her practice. Rashi is an artist, educator, founder of The Messy Movement lab, co-host of the podcast Queer+Married co-owner of the lingerie boutique. The Temptress’s Boudior, and the executive producer and CoStar of the film series Sex is a God thing, which is amazing. So she is multitalented, but just, is doing so many amazing things in the world. And so I’m very, very thrilled to have you as a guest guest today. Rashi, thank you so much for being here.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (01:18):

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I’m like I’m the energy just feels so good. And you know, we took a few breaths before we started and that. Just really, that felt really good. Thank you.

Amanda Testa (01:31):

Well, I know some of the things that we’re going to dive in today around that really has struck me around pleasure as fuel and just, you know, with when things feel crazy or hard, like all the things that are going on right now, sometimes it can feel right. It feels like such a hard thing. And I love your perspective that actually kind of using that as a fuel, not a reward. And before we dive into all that though, I’d love, if you would maybe share a little bit about, you know, more about you and more about why you’re so passionate about this work.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (02:05):

Wow. I began this work in maybe 2009, you know, I’ve been dancing pretty much all of my life, but this works specifically around, you know, coming back into the body and rebuilding or regenerating a generous relationship to our bodies that allows for us to experience pleasure without guilt or without shame or without inhibition, you know, began as a result of a study abroad that I did in Brazil, it was actually my second time going to Brazil, But this time I was alone, you know, unchaperoned quote unquote, you know, it was like doing this study abroad with my colleagues and it was just such a life changing experience being in this country where I was walking down the street and people saw me and it wasn’t, you know, to not be invisible, right? Like my experience growing up in the US as a person of size as a dark skinned black woman who is upside is very different, was very different from the experience that I had, like being on the streets of Bahia and like seeing other women that looked like me who had bodies like me.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (03:26):

And like, they’re just being a fullness and a presence and a praise and adoration around that body in particular. So it’s just a very interesting shift in narrative to like, you know, to go from one place where your body is constantly seen as a problem or things to fix or something that needs to be, you know, shaped in a different way and, you know, in all the facets. And so to going to a place where it’s like more of you, it’s like, there’s like an asking of more of, for you to like, you know, be in your body in a way that justs feel good to dance or move to like enjoy the foods, enjoy this. It’s like rich energy. And I think I was also there during the summer months. And so, you know, some people who probably live in Bahia probably like, you know, the energy changes definitely, you know, politically and,uin, in,and in relationship to the weather.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (04:21):

So, you know, I don’t want to paint this, like, you know, the fantasy of Brazil because there’s just as much problems there, you know, as we have here in the U S but this experience that I had, you know, really allowed for me to, you know, have a, have a different experience in my body. And I, you know, as a dancer growing up, I had the, I kind of had that internal push to, you know, keep going and it’s kind of avoid and the things that were happening, but it definitely took a toll and feeling like there wasn’t a lot of space for me in the dance community in a way that honored me. And didn’t like, put me into this constant cycle of like, you know, trying to fix or change something about my body in order to do this thing that I loved.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (05:07):

And so, you know, I, tried to find my way around at the best way that I could. And you know, this, when I was in Brazil, I told myself I was going to wear a bikini for the first time. And so I got, like, I bought a Brazilian bikini while I was there. And so, you know, yellow, you know, those bikini’s, they’re like nothing, it’s just a string of material. And I was just so excited. Like I just, I was just, I mean, thrilled to no end, you know, to be walking down the beach in this body and, you know, at this size and like feeling good and, you know, not feeling like I had to cover myself up, so I wasn’t making other people uncomfortable and you know, all of this other stuff. And so, you know, I brought the, you know, my culmination of experiences from that study abroad back home with me and just kept trying to find ways to reembody that energy of like feeling liberated in my body at whatever size I was, you know, an honoring this energy of the movement of Bahia, just like in my hips and, and also wanting to have a very generous relationship to my body that felt sensual, that felt alive, that felt erotic in ways that, you know, not just in terms of like the act of sex, but just the idea this concept of being alive, you know, the aliveness, you know, and how integral that energy is to be able to show up each day and not just like, you’re not just there, if that makes sense.

Amanda Testa (06:39):

Yeah. That makes total sense. And having that aliveness to help with resilience and with, you know, really feeling present in whatever it is that you’re experiencing.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (06:52):

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, because I won’t ramble, but you know, if we’re not, if we don’t have that connection in some ways we feel it, you know what I mean? We feel it in our, in the way that we’re interacting in our day to day relationships in our lives, we feel it in the way we approach our work, we feel that that energy of being stuck. And we talk about this in the Messy Movement Lab, as this understanding, where our muscle memory has kind of locked itself around a certain, experience, you know, in terms of like somatic work, right, we call this like when your trauma responses get activated and, you know, they can, they can go in a number of directions. They can partner up, you know, like you can be having two different trauma responses at the same time and your body’s negotiating around that.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (07:47):

And so if our muscle memory only knows those, that, that stress response or that state of being as it’s safe zone, the place where you feel protective, where you feel at ease, the place where you feel like you can like navigate life, you know, when we start to introduce pleasure and any type of way to that equation, their body, they’re like, what is this? What is this foreign object that you are trying to like, make fit in this puzzle? You know, that there’s no space for pleasure here, right? And so oftentimes people will go into these practices and feel, you know, like they have to come in already together, like already with enough information, like, you know, already confident enough to like, apply what they learned. You know, just like having all of these built up, you know, obstacles or resistance points.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (08:35):

And I’m sure that you probably see this in your work as well. And it’s like, no, that’s the very reason why you’re here. You know, it’s to be able to kind of have that start that conversation, you know, and build the trust to the work and the practice and enough in enough with enough safeness with, you know, I love the concept, you know, in thinking of complex trauma, when we talk about spaces being safe enough opposed to it’s totally safe and creating these fantasies and these ideals, as opposed to being able to say like, no, I’m going to allow myself the opportunity to build a relationship with this, with this, with this piece, or with this work, or with this practice or this person over time. And then allow that time to, you know, be a guide in the unlearning for my muscle memory. You know, because if I, if I just try to throw it at it, you know, throw the tool at it and, you know, hope that that’s like the magic, the magic pill or the magic thing, you know, I really don’t ever have the opportunity to build ar elationship to a practice that continuously saves me, continuously feeds me. That continuously pours back into me.

Amanda Testa (09:46):

That’s powerful. And one of the things that you just said, I just want to reflect back if I can, because it felt so good to hear around time, to be a guide in your unlearning. And I think that time piece is so big. It just feels nice to relax into that. It doesn’t, you know, we often want things so quick, especially in our culture. It’s like, Oh, we need to be this way and you gotta do this and you gotta do it now. And you gotta work harder at your self improvement or whatever the things, right.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (10:13):

Yeah. Yeah. We’re always trying to get to that final IG production, you know, you know, with our perfect, with our perfect pictures of our perfect self-care plan with our perfect life and our perfect house with our perfect sex life, with our perfect marriage, you know, like we’re always trying to get to that, that what are those images? And, you know, I just want to give everybody a wake up call they’re stock images. Those are stock images, right? Like the real picture, like the meat, the context of that thing requires that you be present and you can’t, you can’t be numb and be present at the same time. You have to choose like, numbness is a protective mechanism, but it is if we have to understand that. And within that space that we are, you know, we’re withdrawing ourselves from being present. And so that can be an active choice, but we also have to know how to make the choice to be present.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (11:11):

And that presence requires dealing with the discomfort and the fear and the confusion and the anxiety and the worry and the like, you know, what am I doing? And the doubt in the journey over time of building relationship to this new thing that you’re asking to change your life. Like, we don’t pick up a healing practice to say, Oh, I’ve got this powerful tool in my back pocket that I’d never ever actually use. I just want to let you know, I have it there. Right. Okay. That’s useful. Right. And think about all of the tools, you know, people have learned over the course of time, but never do. They never really applied themselves to it. Right. Because they’re looking for that quick, pick me up in like, Oh, I’m going to read this book and I’ll be healed. Or, you know, I’m going to take this five day class and I’ll figure it out.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (12:00):

You know? And it’s always about just getting to the finish line as opposed to being able to curate a journey and being like, if you start here and, you know, there’s all of this stress or tension or trauma or whatever that’s built up in this place, what makes you think all of that is going to unravel in one five day class or 10 minutes, one time, every six months that you decide to meditate, right? Like it’s, it’s about building the, the, the disciplines to be consistent in your exploration and in your playfulness, and in your imagination.

Amanda Testa (12:33):

And I love how you mentioned too about, and I want you to talk more about the messy movement lab in a moment, but you know how you have all these familiar pains. And so you live into the unfamiliar pleasure that does not feel good to our systems often. And so it’s like that. And one of my mentors, Rachel Maddox, was sharing around this the other day around. She’s awesome. I am. And so it’s really, so you have to find those places where it feels safe enough to tip toe in. Right. And know that there’s, we can do it at a way that feels doable. Yeah.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (13:13):

Yes. As opposed to like jarring yourself. Right. Because then who’s the goal really for, at that point, right? Like if there’s such a demand on you getting to this place, as opposed to you being able to enjoy, enjoy the process of unlearning and unfolding and unraveling this tension that you’ve carried around a specific subject for however long. Like, if it’s not about that. And, and I say that because in that, what I’m learning for myself is in that process of being able to sit with your own unraveling and that, and seeing things unfold and, and, and you start to project like a new lens on it, like the story changes, you know what I mean? And like all of these stories of pain that we’ve held around, you know, like the story may, may change, you know, may not change in terms of facts, but how you feel about it changes.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (14:09):

It starts to take a different place in like your own personal museum. Right. Like where it was originally in like the immediate triggers section, you know, right now it’s just like, Oh, this was, these were things that were like really Fed UP, , but like, you know, they didn’t make me stronger or anything like that, but it’s like, this is something that really shaped who I am today, you know, is a big part of my, I don’t know if anybody’s like an animated movie fan, but if you inside out, it’s like one of my core memories, right? Like, it’s one of those things that, you know, really has defined who I am at this very moment. And so it’s something that I honor, right. I can pay attention to it. I can acknowledge it. You know, I talk a lot about the grief of my, you know, my father passing and now the grief of taking care of my mother and, you know, being in this place with her, where I’m watching her age and watching her body, you know, just like do its thing. And we’re in these, this reverse role, these are, this is grie that isn’t just like, Oh, I need to get over it. You know what I mean? Like, Oh, like, you know, it’ll be fine in a couple of days or in a couple months, I won’t think about this. These are grapes that live with you forever. Right? Like they change you as a person and without them, you know what I mean? Like, it’s, we, you know, we kind of float through our experience in this ideal. Right. But yeah.

Amanda Testa (15:34):

And I, first of all, just want to say, you know, I’m sorry for the loss of your father and no understanding that caregiving role and the stress involved it, you know, this time in life, when I feel like there’s can be that transition where you go and you have to care for your, your elder family members. And I know for myself, my father died of early onset Alzheimer’s. So he was like on a ten-year decline. And at the same time my mom was going through breast cancer. So I was like taking care of her. And I just remember one of these times being at home and feeling that really knowing like, I have too adult now. Right. I have too adult now.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (16:12):

Oh, I’m the adult here, adult. Oh, okay. That’s very unfortunate. But, and you’re like crying the entire time. Like, you know, it’s like, why didn’t we want to grow up? Like, what was, what was all that kicking and screaming we were doing? Like, this is not very fun, but yeah. You know, even just like in thinking about like those painful, like, like those painful memories, being that comfortable spot, I think about my own relationship with my mom around my sexuality and how, you know, when I came out as queer, like, you know, my family, she, and when I say my family, because I wasn’t, you know, I grew up as an only child, even though I have a brother who passed away when I was younger, but my family, my mother did not respond very well to me coming out and, you know, didn’t respond very well to like my exploration.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (17:06):

And she just, you know, she was carrying a lot of, her own, she didn’t have the tools, there was a decade of her life, mean, an entire time period she and I didn’t bond But she didn’t have, she didn’t have the tools to be able to manage it. You know, what was her own, you know, history and trauma. And then also be able to like, hold the space for me to have this exploration that really went against like everything that she was taught when she, when she was growing up. And so, you know, it was just that period, that of time that he shaped, you know, a big part of both of our lives and the way in which we related to each other and, you know, like the, the dynamic of our family and, you know, quite honestly that it was, you know, for me as a black queer person, you know, I think that, you know, a lot of people probably have, you know, similar, you know, stories of trauma with their families, where they had to, even if it wasn’t the best timing, even if it wasn’t, you know, the right, you know, the right mood for the moment, you know, had to strike out from their families or from their church spaces in order to like regain sanity.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (18:27):

Right. Because when you’re constantly in this space of, you know, hearing this negative messaging or experiencing harm, or, you know, emotional or physical harm as a result of trying to step into and own your, you know, your sexual or gender identity which we understand to being a very complex and integral part of who we all are, right. Like innate, just, you know, from our reproductive health to the way that we show up in the world to the, you know, the policies and the law that like, you know, act in our favor, or don’t like, you know, there’s so much about gender and sex that like, it’s, it’s just intertwined into our day-to-day existence. So we can’t, we can’t avoid it, you know, unfortunately in these experiences with a lot of queer,queer black people, and it, within their family dynamics, they, they don’t get that same nurturing or support or care, you know, as they’re trying to find the language and figure things out and, you know, and that can lead to a lot of detriment and a lot of harm from housing insecurity to, you know, suicide ideation to, you know, just continued psychological, you know, damage, you know what I’m saying, just from like not having those, those structures in place.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (19:45):

And, and that can also be depending upon when this person came out. And so for me, I was like in the middle of high school, you know, so I went with my mom and I spent a lot of time in this really bad tug of war around, you know, my, my sexuality and, you know, it, it caused me to spiral into a lot of situations that were not, that were harmful or could have been, you know, dangerous. And as a result of like not having a space to talk, not having a space to really bring some of the concerns of the fears, you know, things that I was thinking about without feeling like that was going to create more, you know, more harm. And so, you know, it really wasn’t until maybe a year or so before I got married to my spouse that did our relationship start to change. And so that was like, you know, maybe four or five years ago. And, you know, we just, we started to like, you know, we just started to talk more and, you know, this

Amanda Testa (20:48):

Was prior to my father passing who was also, you know, had a very negative reaction to my queerness and, you know, became violent physically and emotionally in the face as a result of me sharing with parents this piece of my life. And so, you know, I think that my mom’s seeing how that experience, you know, how that impacted me. I think that, you know, made a shift for her in how she wanted to show up in the space and what she wanted those memories to be. Yeah. Yeah, no, the Messy Movement practice in all of the names that it’s been known by has provided the structure and the safety net and the sanctuary that I needed, you know, to navigate the experiences that I was having. And also knowing that even though this experience was happening with them, it was know.

Amanda Testa (21:54):

And yeah, it sounds like, you know, even with all that you were experiencing and all the pain and having that, that sanctuary of that Messy Movement practice, to be able to create a safe space for you to have that safety net, to be able to have the experiences to feel and move through all you were experiencing, it sounds like, hello, can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Okay. Cut out for a minute again, but yeah. And you know, as we’re talking too, I just noticed the sound of the water in the background and it just feels so soothing to me to hear. Yeah.

Amanda Testa (22:46):

I was just wondering if it might be okay to take a moment just to listen to the waves [inaudible] for me, I feel like nature is such a huge resource because I feel like oftentimes it feels challenging for me to feel supported in some ways, but always with nature, I can feel the connection that there’s something bigger than me that can hold whatever is present so it just feels good for me to connect to, So thank you. And I’d love to, if you’d share more about, you know, I know you mentioned your, your, the creation of the Messy Movement lab has, you know, changed morphed over time, but tell me a little bit more about, about that program in that practice and how, you know, how it can help, help people to connect to that resource of dance and movement.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (24:00):

Yeah. You know, I think what I was saying was like, you know, the messy movement practice as it’s, you know, all the names it’s been known by over the last 10 years created that sanctuary for me to be able to, you know, feel supported and to feel held and to feel like I, you know, had a space where I could unravel and where I had a space where I could like let my guard down and let my body have an opportunity to experience rest, to experience pleasure, to experience connection, even in the midst of all of the things that were happening around me. And so what I love about the work is that, you know, it’s really, it, it doesn’t require you to have a whole lot of space or, you know, for you to have any props or costumes or anything of the sort.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (24:57):

Now, of course you can add those things later to enhance your practice, but the very base of our practices, being able to stop, drop, and dance wherever you are, and allow your body to sink into that moment and to check in with what your body is experiencing mentally, emotionally, and to you, that energy to be a catalyst for your practice and understanding that our, our, our knowing of the erotic is not just in having experiences that are, you know, rooted in like seduction or in that, in that arena, but also in just being able to feel whatever, be emotional, whatever the experiences, whether that’s grief or rage or disappointment or curiosity, or, you know, tenderness or anxiety or seduction or playfulness or lust or joy, like wherever you’re at, knowing that there is a space on the spectrum of this practice for you to enter it and get what you need so that you can be restored. And it’s never about, Oh, well, you know, I’m in a good place. I don’t need it today. It’s like, even when you have enough, pour in some more, right, like fill the tank up so that it’s overflowing as opposed to just operating, on, you know, barely enough or just enough, or just enough to get by, right. Like giving yourself a reservoir, you know, that you can pull from as you’re moving through your day to day life.

Amanda Testa (26:32):

Yeah. I think that, that coming back to it again, and again, is so key because like you said, being able to drop in, I love how you said stop drop and dance. That, you know, I’m wondering too, if it might feel okay to perhaps share maybe one or two things, if someone’s listening is like, well, that sounds like it’d be awesome, but I don’t know how to go about it. What would I do?

Rashida Khanbey Miller (26:58):

Oh man. You know, I think one of the first things that I love that we actually started doing this, you know, I want you to just take a second and close your eyes, and I want you to just hear the sound that’s around you. What sounds do you notice starting right there in that place and just allowing your body to breathe really generously, maybe even bringing your hands to your stomach, allowing yourself to find that point of connection, maybe your hands need to be on your heart or your hips or on the back of your neck, on top of your head, wherever it is, just finding that connection. You know, like you can start with your music, you know, grab and song. Literally. I challenge you to do any song as opposed to trying to find the right song. And when you put it on starting right there, again, from that place of connecting to the body and letting your body determine what the move is, as opposed to you trying to decide what your day, we all know how to dance, we all know how to move our bodies in ways that, you know, feel good and feel, you know, like just exciting in the moment.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (28:26):

And so whatever the song is, just letting your body react to the music and finding your dance right there every day, five minutes will change your life.

Amanda Testa (28:38):

So, so good. Thank you so much. And you know, I think that’s, what’s so beautiful cause your program is available online now, right? So it can reach anyone in the world.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (28:50):

Yes, yes, yes. We have students all over our, and you know, we make sure that we have classes that are available and, you know, different timing so that everyone gets a chance to get in on some of the live experiences and you know, and it’s really a place of multiple classes available throughout the week, all on mine. And there’s also a pre-recorded classes in, you’ll take advantage of when you sign up for the space so that, you know, like if you’re not able to make one of the live classes, you don’t have to worry about missing out. And then we provide accountability and social support. And just like being a part of a community of people who are doing this practice and doing this work and really making a commitment to come back into the body of the pleasure Practice. I feel that it’s such a crucial part of being able to stay committed. I mean, when you’re doing it alone and isolated it’s hard to kind of source grandfather, that faith and all that energy in when you’re having a day where you’re doubting yourself or when you’re not feeling motivated, but to see someone else, you know, be able to move from their own doubt or, you know, give you that inspiration or that catalyst to move again like death.

Amanda Testa (30:06):

Right. I so agree in the community spaces are so important. I think too, because there is so much maybe shame or all the things that can come up and I feel having that group to lean into can just offer so much more and so much more of an opportunity, like you said, when you’re not quite feeling it to get, to get some energy from the group or vice versa, if you have more to give the group can receive and you know, it’s such a beautiful,

Rashida Khanbey Miller (30:35):

I love that about groups

Amanda Testa (30:39):

Sowell Rashi, This has been such a pleasure to talk with you. And I’m wondering too, if there’s any, and I want to give you an opportunity to share where everyone connect can connect with you. But first I’d love to hear, you know, if you have any, any last words or maybe if there was a question that you wished that I would have asked that I didn’t ask,

Rashida Khanbey Miller (30:56):

Oh my God, I feel like we covered such a, a nice range. And just being able to talk about the presence of the body and, and talking about how, you know, past pain and grief kind of wraps around that, that that’s really good. Thank you for giving me the space to share and to talk openly.

Amanda Testa (31:18):

It’s an honor to have you, and if people are listening in they’re feeling called to connect, what’s the best way to find, to find more about you and to work with you?

Rashida Khanbey Miller (31:28):

Yeah, absolutely. On all of our information about classes is available on themessymovementlab.com and you can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at the messymovementlab. I’m looking forward to reaching out. You have questions, please don’t hesitate to send us an email or send us a message and we’d be happy to help.

Amanda Testa (31:51):

And I’ll also make sure to post in the show notes, all of Rashi’s links so you can connect and learn more about her and her work and the messy movement lab and all the awesome things she’s got going on. Yes. And thank you all for listening. See you next week. Thank you so much for listening to the find your feminine fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact at amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook in the group Fnd Your Feminine Fire Group. And if you’ve this podcast, Please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

I Am Sacred Ground.

Do you want to be able to trust your body? Are you ready to listen to it’s guidance?

In this week’s podcast I’m talking with Dr. Sonali Deepika, M.D., ABIHM, a holistic and integrative physician and Sensuality Coach, on how to connect with and honor your Sensual Sacred Ground to feel better in your body, ignite your sensuality, and enjoy more compassionate self love.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

In this episode you’ll discover

Sonali’s journey of moving from pain based motivation, to pleasure focused living. What led her to move from Psychiatry to Sensuality Coaching?How Ayurveda works to keep our systems in balance.Why Pleasure is a sign of health. What does it mean to view yourself as Sacred Ground?How to feel better in your body, and find more acceptance and self love. What are some steps we can take to honor our sacred ground?and much more!

This week I have the pleasure of talking with my friend and colleague Sonali Deepika Nanayakkara M.D., ABIHM. Sonali is a holistic and integrative physician with a passion for guiding people to honor the sacred nature of their bodies and to connect to the deep wisdom which lies within.  She spent nearly 20 years in Chicago studying and practicing conventional medicine, specializing in child and adolescent psychiatry.  Along the way, she developed a keen interest in holistic forms of healing and became passionate about the ancient wisdom of Ayurveda. Her path eventually led her to complete a coaching program which integrates the ancient wisdom of Tantra and Taoism with modern science regarding sexuality, sexual healing and embodiment practices.  She currently serves as a  senior teacher for the Vital and Integrated Tantric Approach (VITA) Coaching Program and practices as a Sensuality Coach.

You can find more about Sonali and her upcoming events and offerings HERE.

Follow her on Insta HERE.

Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire Podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex love and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex love and relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Hello everyone. And welcome. And I am very excited today because I am talking with a, amazing friend and teacher Dr. Sonali Deepika, and I am thrilled today because we’re going to be diving into really all things around sensuality and really awakening that in the power that we have within us. And I am excited for Sonali to be here today. Thank you so much again, and I just really love your story as well. Kind of what led you to go from being, you know, being in medical school, being a psychiatrist, and then, you know, kind of shifting to really embodying, you know, the body and how you integrate that and Ayurveda and all the different modalities that you’ve studied over the years to kind of bring this, this different awareness and opportunity for awakening for women. So, yes. Thank you so much for being here.

Sonali Deepika (01:15):

Thank you Amanda,. I’m so honored Having followed you from a far for a little while now, we’ve been working alongside each other and It’s so great to be here.

Amanda Testa (01:27):

So yeah, I’d love just to start with, you know, as you mentioned, we actually have been working together this past year as senior teachers for the Tantric Institute of Integrated Sexuality. And I love you have such a beautiful transmission, just like such love and you know, this gentle power about you that feels so delicious to receive. So I’d also love, you know, just to share a little bit more about you and kind of what led you on this journey. If you can tell,

Sonali Deepika (01:56):

I would say this, I’ll say this about journeys that they can take such unexpected twists and turns. So let’s say for, let’s go back four years, four years ago, if you’ve been like, Oh yeah, you’re going to be working with women with sensuality and all these things. No, that was never, never on my, on the horizon. For me. It wasn’t anything. The thing, you know, that, that I was, that was in my field that was in my world at all, which is probably quite telling.

Sonali Deepika (02:30):

It’s probably part of what, you know, somewhere along the way, there was like, you know, something missing that, that brought me To this point. But I will say I do. I find it for me very helps me when I think about my own journey to go back to part of where my initial motivation had been.

Sonali Deepika (02:53):

So that had been, I already was in medical school. So I got there all the kinds of ways, so many exams, so many things, and Like, This is what I, you know, should be doing. And then there were even some detours in that where at one point I’m like, well, I guess I’m not doing that. And then I got into the medical school going through having like ditched all the applications and like, I guess I’m not doing it. So it wasn’t like totally smooth, but then I was in it and halfway in it, there was a tragedy for me. There was a, a trauma that I think so many of us have that somewhere on our path.

Sonali Deepika (03:30):

For me it was a traumatic loss. And so my younger brother who is my only sibling. He took his life when I was halfway through medical school. So this had a profound impact and I found myself being this empath. Like I am like, I was right away like connected to the way that he died. That affected me in my life, in my just like personal life. But it also affected me in terms of, Oh, how do I want to help people? You know, what path do I want to follow so that I can be of most service. And that felt like psychiatry. That is not why I went into medical school. That is not at all.

Sonali Deepika (04:19):

What was driving me, I wanted to work with kids. I was like, I’m going to be a pediatrician. My father was a pediatrician, he’s retired, but he was a pediatrician. And I was like, alright, that really motivated me. And suddenly this, this path happened, this, this twist, you know, happened this, this loss. And I felt like, yeah, I’m going to go into this. And I did. So I went into psychiatry and then I specialized to work with children. So I was working as a child and adolescent psychiatrist. And there was a lot of,

Sonali Deepika (04:50):

Part of that was so rewarding. It was so rewarding for a certain time. It was so rewarding to actually delve into emotions and what was going on in a person’s inner life. And especially when I could do what I could to intervene with youth and kind of help shape their path because that’s, I think that’s always

Sonali Deepika (05:11):

Where I was like, let me work with youth in some way, and really have, you can have Little shift and it has a big, a big change in their, in their trajectory. So it was, it was good for awhile until it just wasn’t rewarding anymore. Like I’m not, I don’t really feel like I’m having the effect that I want. I don’t even, I wasn’t believing in it as much. And what really was Missing for me was a holistic component, like looking at the whole person and where they are in their journey and what’s affecting them. And in psychiatry, I mean, it’s a valuable field. But it, it does tend to get pushed into this like medication kind of thing. And and that also start, there’s nothing against medication. I do think it can be helpful, but I’ve always felt and do to this day. Like it’s a small piece of a whole, a whole shift that needs to be happening at whole change and looking at body soul relationships, the context and, you know, energy, all these things. So that led to me finding Ayurveda and studying that while being a psychiatrist,

Sonali Deepika (06:31):

And, finding a very big clash there because Ayurveda is all about ,well it’s a lot of things. It’s a huge, vast science, but it’s, it’s all about prevention. I mean, I read that there are five, there are like six different stages of illness. And it’s like the sixth one is where Western medicine intervenes. And that makes sense. And so it was like, Oh my gosh, what are we doing? There’s the subtleties there’s there’s places to feel into the, we can each, when we get aware you know, with our senses and our experiences, we can start to notice, Oh yeah, something’s not right over in this area. And we can course correct. We can balance Ayurveda is about finding balances, opposites, and, and then bringing the whole system into a state of balance. And it’s an active, ongoing process. It’s not a, like you get there and it’s done.

Sonali Deepika (07:33):

I was fascinated by it fascinated. And so I, I started learning a lot about that. And that led to, at some point getting invited by my mother’s friend, right when I was like, I need to do something, I need a change. I need to do something. I don’t know what exactly something has to change cannot go on. And it was having an effect on me. Like I was not thriving at all. You know, something like I need to do something. And my mother’s friend who invited me to go to Sri Lanka, that’s where my parents are originally from. And they had this Ayurvedic resort. And it was like that, you know, that perfect, like timing, chance and opportunity, you know, coming together that led me to go there. So I, I find that part of this journey, I haven’t even gotten to the other part, but you know, just what I shared was a motivation from a place of pain. I find that like my initial work in medicine was driven by that. Like, I felt this guilt, about my brother, I also have struggled with depression and in my life. And it was like, okay, I’m going to help. I’m going to help. I’m going to help, but it’s coming from this, this kind of place of pain. And once I got to Sri Lanka, once that didn’t quite out for me, and I discovered Layla Martin’s work. Everything starts to shit. Then it’s like, Oh, pleasure. How about we focus on that for a change?

Sonali Deepika (09:07):

Sounds like a new thing for me.

Sonali Deepika (09:09):

Yeah. So that, that was that, that was a big part of the journey. And I also think of the, in my body, what started to happen. Cause I was so like in my head, I was so focused on, you know, using my intellect knowledge, all these things I had learned in this part of my training was basically knowledge-based, you know, it’s like how this works out. That works how the physiology works, how medicine works, how, you know, how all these things are connected. And so there was a journey in my body from like my head, from my mind to my heart, my body, my pussy like all of that started to get, you know, In line. That was a beautiful journey. Took a lot of time because there’s a lot of resistance when there.{laughing}. So I think about those two really big factors of

Sonali Deepika (10:14):

What’s what’s motivating me. And it was, it definitely was coming from this painful, like suffering kind of place, but wanting to wait to help and wanting to do good things that it was coming from there. And so it was challenging. It was, it was challenging kind of work for me and to like a place of pleasure where I can focus on my own pleasure. What brings me pleasure? Who do I want to help? How do I want to help people? How do I want to feel in my body when I’m doing all of that? Which wasn’t part of my, it wasn’t in my awareness before.

Amanda Testa (10:51):

And I think what you said, you know, first of all, I really I’m so sorry about your brother and just want to send you some love around that. But you know, also in your journey, you know, you’re spoke to numerous times about how there was this drive to help and to, you know, create that change in the trajectory of someone’s life at an earlier age. And I like how that visual, you said, you know, it can really make a difference. And then also realizing like at the root of all this, there was, it was like based in like this painful pursuit of kind of trying to come at it from a different way and then kind of when pleasure knocked on the door. And, and I think it’s so interesting because so many people will be like, well, pleasure sometimes feels like such a trivial thing. And I love sharing alternative perspectives around that. Cause I totally disagree. And it’s not just, it’s a big thing. And so I’m wondering for you to like, you know, what was that, how did kind of that door open because you mentioned it was a really hard shift to move down at first, what kind of helped you to realize, wow, there’s a different way.

Sonali Deepika (11:58):

Yeah. I mean, I think this is where all the things start to come together, you know, because Ayurveda is also about being in a state of, of ease of comfort, of pleasure, you know, in a way. And that’s how it’s like, if you, if you ask us in Western, in Western medicine, what does it mean to be healthy? It’s often the absence of some kind of disease. That is how we look at it, but in Ayurveda, that was like, no, it was much more about thriving and enjoying and really being in a, like in a comfortable place in our mind, body, spirit and all of that. So started kind of with this and then, you know, this work took it to a whole different level that I hadn’t thus far been it’s in there. I’m sure, but I hadn’t really encountered in Ayurveda made that so much sense. And it was like, Oh, let’s, let’s really get into pleasure. Let’s go there

Sonali Deepika (13:02):

I did her (Layla Martin’s) online course Obliss which was like this whole, you know, awakening in itself. And then that led to applying for her coaching program, which I’d never in a million years was thinking like, it’s amazing, but I just didn’t. I had done a lot of training, and thougt to myself, Is this something that I need? But really, I did. I did, at that time I did a retreat that was kind of right at this point it was Layla’s retreat. And it was, I was halfway through my time in Sri Lanka, learning more about Ayurveda it wasn’t quite going right. And I went to this retreat that she called Wild Bliss and for a reason, it was incredible, .

Sonali Deepika (13:47):

Yeah. But that’s when I hit resistance, a lot of resistance. I was trying to do breath work. I have all this, like, what is this? I don’t know what’s supposed to happen here, [laughing} so much going on in my head. It took a while. And then it took a while, you know, to really like, Okay, let me just let that be. Let me just focus on the sensations in the body and what’s there and what’s alive, what’s present. And I really think that pleasure is it’s part of a sign of health that we can experience pleasure. And, you know, we might not always experience pleasure in everything we do, but even that understanding that things will happen and we can regulate ourselves and come back into some state of comfort. It might just be a state of accpetancefor a little while, you know, before we can get back into actual feeling, more pleasure, but it is something that we are wired to feel and experience. And he gets left out of medicine. I don’t think anyone talked about it and certainly the training had nothing to do with it. So, and.

Amanda Testa (15:20):

It’s funny how you mentioned too, you know, being obviously in medical school, you obviously, you know, studied very hard and there’s so much around learning and the knowledge and obviously in Western medicine. And I think too, just in growing up at least here in the U S where I grew up, you know, around that push push culture of you gotta like learn everything and you gotta be the smartest. And I think when it comes to pleasure, what’s funny about, oftentimes for people coming into this, if that’s the mindset like very much in the intellect and knowledge, it’s, you can’t really “good student” your way into pleasure. Right. Which I think is so funny. Cause I remember too, first doing this, like, is this, how do I do this? Like, is this right? Like I want to make sure I’m doing it exactly right. I got a doll, all the steps I’m like, no, no, no, no. That’s part of the unlearning. It’s like, you can study your way into your body. You have to just be. Allow it.

Sonali Deepika (16:11):

It’s like, that’s exactly what I hit. It’s like, wait, I don’t get it. Give me the steps Help me out here. I don’t understand. Right. And same.

Amanda Testa (16:24):

And then, I mean, yes, there is a structure that you can be guided through, which is so helpful. And that’s why it’s so wonderful to have a coach or a mentor to work with. But once you kind of get it, that’s kind of the intention. I feel like a lot of this work it’s to teach you to fish, so to speak, it’s like not to, just to give you an experience. Yes. That’s part of it, but also teaching you how to do it for yourself.

Sonali Deepika (16:45):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s that’s so it, I mean, that’s really like in this work, I find it’s being the guide being there, being present, giving maybe some, some gentle guidance instruction, maybe a little bit, but it’s really allowing someone to make that journey because that’s where the magic is.

Amanda Testa (17:13):

Yes. I love how you touched on how can have pleasure as a measure of health. Cause I feel like, I mean, it is true our, our overall health that has to be viewed holistically. So if there’s a problem in one area, there’s usually some disharmonies in other areas. So if you feel totally disconnected from your sexuality or you have no libido or no sex drive, like all these things are just often times symptoms of other things going on. Yeah. And so I think I like this holistic approach around working through those kind of things.

Sonali Deepika (17:46):

Definitely. Yeah. I mean, the way I think about it too, is, in order to feel pleasure, we have to be in our like in our nervous system. We have to be in our window of tolerance. Right. So, so many things will push us into fight flight, freeze, appease, and we can be in these States and we aren’t actually fully experiencing what’s going on around us. We’re not fully sensing and we’re stuck in these places. So there’s something where just that, just thinking about the nervous system, that way brings us into holistic health, because so much goes into all of that. And once we can do what we need or make the shifts that we need to get into this place where we can feel pleasure, it’s a, it’s a good sign, you know?

Amanda Testa (18:43):

Yeah. And I think too, like you mentioned. Yeah. And I think you mentioned too, it’s like just noticing how, whatever you’re experiencing, you know, you can find a way to find more presence or comfort there. Not necessarily like pleasure can look like a lot of different things. Right? Yeah. And, and the other thing too, I love, I love how you speak a lot to sacred ground. Like I am sacred ground viewing yourself as sacred ground. So I would love if you could speak to that a little more, if you don’t mind.

Sonali Deepika (19:13):

Yes. I love that. I love, I am sacred ground. To me it’s a mantra and I didn’t, another woman came up with that at a retreat. We had to come up with these “I am” statements and mine was, I still remember, it was a few years ago, I was, “I am love lit up”. That felt really good to me. I liked it. And then she came out with, I am sacred ground and afterwards I was like, Oh my God, like that actually, I felt it in my body. I felt that it throughout my body and, and reached out to her later when I was coming up with different things about what this business was going to be, and she was so gracious. She’s like, I think that, you know, it might have come through for you to use it. But sacred ground to me is it really is about thinking of our body as a temple. Like, like appreciating it that way with that kind of reference. And it’s with that, that we can make decisions about how do we treat the body? How do we treat this temple? What do we invite in? And what kind of boundaries that I think is also very important and in health and wellbeing, it’s like having boundaries whether the comes to relationships, whether it comes to different kinds of stimuli, like we can choose. There’s some things we cannot choose. Granted things happen to us in our lives, but there are things that we can choose even when it comes to what social media we take in, what do we watch? What are we listening to? What definitely, what are we eating? You know, and this is this idea of being that it’s about being the most loving and compassionate and kind to our bodies to this temple.

Sonali Deepika (21:11):

That’s ours, it’s ours that we got from the time we came into the world and that we’ll have until we leave. And so how do we want to treat this body, this entity.

Amanda Testa (21:25):

That so beautiful. I love that. And the, I am sacred ground and really viewing your body that way. One of the things I find so interesting was an interesting side effect of this work around sexuality that I wasn’t expecting is having such more appreciation and adoration for my own body. Like no matter what form it’s in, I, you know, just feeling like so much more accepting of myself.

Sonali Deepika (21:50):

That’s so beautiful. And I think that’s such a, it is like, Oh, like you said Amanda, It’s almost like a side effect. Like you’re doing things and maybe focusing on pleasure and having a lot more pleasure in life or, or, you know, choosing what would be most pleasurable. Like I think that’s a way in, and then, and then suddenly it’s like, Oh, how do I take care of this, this body that’s giving me the pleasure. That’s allowed me to experience this. How do I choose? Like, that’s really, there’s so much empowerment around that.

Amanda Testa (22:30):

Yeah. And maybe you would share if you feel like this is doable, perhaps a couple of things that you could, that you’d like to invite in as people are on the path of moving into more pleasure and more honoring their sacred ground, what would be some things that you could maybe recommend?

Sonali Deepika (22:51):

Such a good point there. So there’s so many things. I mean, honestly, what, what comes to mind is really this, this practice that I’ve been calling sensual self care, it’s like sensual, self care, sensual self-love. And it’s like I was saying, it’s that it’s making those choices about what, what feels the most loving, what feels, what feels so kind compassionate, what feels good, what feels pleasurable to the body. So, Ayurveda is full of that, I didn’t even realize it when I found it untill I was going into Ayurveda, there’s really a whole practice, a whole science around self-love.

Sonali Deepika (23:45):

So, so there’s a lot to say, I suppose when I’m thinking of, but, but I, I think it can just start with something as, as simple, as turning into the body, putting hands on the body and asking and just asking what would be most loving for me to do in this moment and, and letting that, that guidance be, what, what helps make the decisions around that? So that could be about, it could be about eating something, drinking something, it could be about massaging. It could be about taking a rest or it could be about being more active. Like actually, what would be great right now is to go for a walk, do something more stimulating. So like that’s what happens with Ayurveda too, is that we’re working in, in balances, what stimulating what’s calming, what’s grounding. And so I think that’s a, it’s a really good practice to start to, to tune in because there’s lots of ways to look, look up, you know, what I should be doing or look into self care practices are so many things out there.

Sonali Deepika (25:00):

But I think what is so valuable, what’s really priceless is tuning into the body more and letting it like listening to its guidance, to its wisdom and letting that be what drives our actions.

Amanda Testa (25:18):

You know, I love that so much. And I think, you know, as you mentioned, you know, when you tune in, you can do that anywhere, right. It doesn’t necessarily, I mean, you can do it while you’re working. You can do it while you’re taking care of kids. You can do it when you’re doing whatever. It’s like just really tuning in and being like, what do I need right now? And I like how you mentioned it can be so simple as I need to drink some water, I need to go to the bathroom or, cause I know sometimes when people are so busy or they feel so overwhelmed, those are things like you can’t always do. So it’s ridiculous. But I remember for myself starting this journey, like to go to the bathroom when you need to go to the bathroom, okay, you don’t have to hold it for two hours because you can’t get to the bathroom or you take care of someone else.

Sonali Deepika (26:04):

So true. And I think that’s, what’s so baffling in some ways about how we’re conditioned. And certainly I can tell you, it happens all throughout medical training. We’re not allowed to listen to our bodies. We’re going to be staying up all night. We’re going to be doing, you know, not eating. And I mean, I’m not saying like we starve and all this stuff that it’s just, there’s an encouragement to just push and push and study and do this and do that. And it’s like, you lose, you lose all contact with wait, what is most loving to my body? What is my body wanting in this moment? You that’s an extreme of course, but just in our lives, like you say happens all the time with like all the other needs and all the things that have to get done to some basic yeah. Water, water would be good. Let’s hydrate. Let’s use the bathroom. {laughing}

Amanda Testa (27:02):

Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. That’s a beautiful in the station of like how to kind of start like moving into this more. Yeah. And I’m go ahead.

Sonali Deepika (27:15):

Well, I was just going to say like, it’s, like you said, it’s just the start, but it’s such an, just ease in to that. Because once we get into habits, like once we start to create these habits of self loving, self caring practices, even as I’m going to use a bathroom. As soon as I feel the need, even something like that, then we start to get so much more tuned. We get attuned when we’re, when we’re not doing that, we’re not listening. Our bodies will give us, give us a signal. It’s like, there’s , I don’t know, few months during the quarantine, I did an elimination diet because I have to check in with an inflammation and a thyroid condition, all these things.

Sonali Deepika (28:02):

But it was really interesting. What came out of that, One thing that really stuck with me is that our body, if we’re not listening to our body, it stops sending signals. It’s Very intelligent, highly intelligent. So like with the food example, let me just share, like I found out, well, tomatoes are not as good for me and I’ve eaten tomatoes my entire life. But when I kept eating them, eating them, like, I didn’t know that I was just eating my body, stopped giving me any signal that this was causing inflammation, that this was a problem. I had to cut it out. I had to stop. And then I started getting the signals. And then there’s something similar about this process of starting to listen, just starting to listen and starting to do some things. And then there’s more, there’s more signals. There’s more invitations. Cause the body’s kind of like, Oh, this person’s actually going to do something good for me. She’s gonna listen.

Amanda Testa (29:10):

It’s two way conversation. It’s like, Oh wait, you’re actually listening. I’m going to keep talking now. Thanks.

Sonali Deepika (29:21):

Yeah. Yeah. I want to say one more thing about that. And I know this comes from Ayurveda, which is another, like very basic. I love these little pearls of wisdom, but once there’s, there’s a notion, a concept in Ayurveda that when our body is in balance we crave the things that keep it in balance and a contrast when our body’s out of balance, we are craving the things that keep us out of balance. And so it’s an interesting, it’s, it’s a little bit of a catch 22 there. Cause we have to pay attention to what are we craving? What are we wanting? But for me, it took me back to many of those years doing medical training and practice where yeah, I craved fly French fries, pizza. I was quite out of balance. And it’s like, this is what happened. So when we slow it down and start to do the things that are so loving and caring and kind we can, get back into balance and our bodies will help us.

Amanda Testa (30:36):

Yeah. I like that visual. And I think, you know, what you mentioned too, is really that prevention piece. It’s like when you are taking care of yourself in general, as a whole, you are inviting more health and more aliveness and more vitality in all areas of your life, in your body, outside of your body and your relationships. It really all is so connected. And I think it’s funny too, how you mentioned, you know, you crave certain things. If you’re in balance that help you stay in balance. If you’re out of balance, you crave things that keep you out of balance, which kind of reminds me a little bit if kind of a trauma response in a way, right?

Amanda Testa (31:12):

So you maybe have these unhealthy patterns that you’ve created for yourself, but they’re your best friends because they’ve kept you safe all this time or they’ve saved your life at some point. And so it’s like, it feels good to be there to bring those things in or you want them, you crave them, but it’s like kind of teaching your body. Well, this is a little more of what you need to be feeding yourself and it’s okay. So you can dip in and try some. And of course you can go back and then dip it and try some more and then you slowly shift the balance, right? So then you are craving. What’s good for you.

Sonali Deepika (31:41):

Yeah. Yeah. And it is, it is, it’s so slow and subtle and also bringing compassion when we can bring compassion to the part of us that is craving the things that we know it’s not healthy. That makes such a difference too. So when we can just bring compassion to the whole process, my body is craving this because it is bringing some sense of comfort. It’s bringing some kind of balance. It’s just not doing so a healthy way, but something is, is off balance within me. And this is why I’m craving these things. And this is why I’m doing these things. And to bring that like compassion and love to, to, to viewing all of that makes such a difference versus shame, guilt, you know, punitive kind of things that we can do.

Amanda Testa (32:42):

I know I’ve done that. Of course, me too. I beat myself up for years. I don’t know what possessed me, but for some reason earlier today, I like picked up this journal from 1994. I don’t know why I was like, for some reason, I was like thinking about this period of time where I was living in Jackson hole, Wyoming.

Amanda Testa (33:00):

I was just turning 21 that summer. For some reason, I was like, Ooh, I’m going to pick this up. But I just was like, Oh, sending so much love to myself because it was just so mean to myself. Right. Just so much self bashing. And it’s interesting just as you grow and can look back and have more empathy for parts of yourself. But I think anytime you can do that, right? Like even now during the quarantine, there were times where like, yeah, I’m gonna eat a bag of chips and I’m going to enjoy every chip because I want to just stuff my feelings right now. And I have full awareness about what I’m doing. Exactly. Oh, you’re in the window. It’s fine.

Amanda Testa (33:36):

But like also noticing when it’s like, okay, now you’ve been doing that for a couple of weeks. Now it’s time to like dial it in. Right. But, but that’s just, we, we it’s like, I think the more we understand our patterns in our bodies and the more we can be kind to ourselves and kind of understand why the patterns are there, what, what to, you know, how to kind of bring ourselves back more into balance. I like that. Yeah.

Sonali Deepika (34:00):

So true and I had something similar where I was, I was actually really just talking about, Oh, I had the sweet tooth and you know, it’s like, that’s one thing I know, but I can enjoy and not, you know, not feel bad and just same thing. Like, I’m just going to sit, I’m going to enjoy I’m going to savor it all. But I was doing that a bit like several days. So chocolate, chocolate cake, various things. So I’m like, yeah, okay. Maybe it’s time to like, just bring that.

Sonali Deepika (34:35):

And sometimes, you know, not probably not right in the moment of like eating chocolate cake or, you know, eating, I love chips, do what you sweet salty, snacky things, but afterwards, or when we’re in like a neutral place, it is a point of asking. We can ask, you know, what, what am I really wanting? Like what do I really want here? What is my body really needing? And that can really help us to go go deeper as well. Because a lot of times with sweets, I mean Ayurveda, the different doshas, it’s like sweets unrelated to kapha, but it’s a, which is really nurturing and, you know, can feel really grounding, but it’s the, it’s the, you know, unhealthy version of the kapha. And we can have a healthier version, you know, we can find, you know, being put ourselves at like a warm bath or like, you know, something that feels really good and warm, and snugly and nurturing. And that can just that sense. We looking at the senses of what is it that we’re actually really wanting in the moment.

Amanda Testa (35:47):

And I love how you share what you can do when you feel like you need that And so I feel like I could just keep talking to you forever. I’m like, Oh my goodness. So I definitely want you to share where people can learn more about you and how to work with you. But I also want to just check in and see, you know, was there maybe a question that you wished I would have asked or something that you really wanted to make sure we talked about?

Sonali Deepika (36:10):

Just wanted to share, because I think we actually didtalk about it, but I just want to share that what’s come up for me more recently in this work, in this work with sensuality is, is like these three pillars kind of thing to me and they overlap. I actually think I’m like Venn diagram, they overlap, but the self-love, which we talked a lot about sensuality, which we have talked about. And for me, that’s really this embodied piece, embodiment work. And then the sovereignty piece of how our wholeness acknowledging wholeness and acknowledging that we are complete as we are. And then we, and then being able to interact with others and move through the world from that place of not needing others to fill us, but more we can choose from this place of wholeness, how we, how we relate to others then.

Amanda Testa (37:12):

Oh, that’s so beautiful. Thank you so much. And Sonali, it’s such a pleasure to talk to you and I know you’ve got some fun events coming up and all kinds of great ways to connect. So how can everyone connect with you and find more about what’s up?

Sonali Deepika (37:27):

Well, I have my website, www.iamsacred ground.com and that’s hosting events and things. And I do want to get up. I can something that I can share, you know, for everyone I don’t have yet there, but I also have my Instagram that I’m slowly building slowly but surely. And that’s, @Iamsacredgroud.

Amanda Testa (37:48):

Yeah. Beautiful. And she’s got some beautiful content there, so make sure to follow her. And I am sacred ground.com. Also her Insta. I am sacred ground. And thank you so much again for joining today. Such a pleasure and thank you all for listening and we will see you next week. Thank you so much for listening to the find your feminine fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at www.amandatesta.com/activate. And we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life.

Speaker 3 (38:36):

You can also join us on Facebook at Find Your Feminine Fire group And if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

Blood. Breath. Belonging.

This week I’m thrilled to be talking with two of my besties, Rachel Sizemore and Kit Murray Maloney, on the power of Community and Collaboration.We’ve been leaning into support with each other, and wanted to expand that in a bigger way.  We’ve teamed up to create a space for connection, ritual, community, and belonging.  Listen in as we share how the modalities of yoni steaming, breathwork, and pleasure practices have transformed our lives, and how we are coming together to support others in the process.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

In this episode you’ll discover

Why community support is so key in times of collective stress.What is community care, and how do we lean into support from others?What is yoni steaming? What is breathwork? What is a Jade Egg Practice? And what do they have in common?How personal journeys of healing led our passion for these practices.What is the Blood Breath and Belonging embodiment circle? And how can it benefit?Why circles are such a powerful space for connection. Why now is the time to make caring for ourselves even more of a priority. and much more!

If you feel the call to explore this work more deeply, you’re invited to join us in Blood Breath and Belonging HERE.

Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a Sex ,Love and Relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex love and relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Hello everyone. And welcome. And I am just beyond lit up today because I am going to be talking with my dear friends and sisters, Rachel Sizemore and Kit Murray Maloney. And we are gathered here today because we are feeling called that, especially in times like this, something that I personally have found, so healing and supportive and I can’t get enough of these days is circle community support. And so I know for myself, I am finding new ways to lean into that since it can’t always be the way we want it to look right now with COVID, we have to be creative, right? So we are cooking up a delicious, delicious circle, and we are here to share more out that and why we felt called to do this and why, especially now this is the time this is the time to lean in. So welcome. Welcome everyone.

Amanda Testa (01:23):

And so, as we get started, I’d love to just start with, you know, if maybe Kit, if you want to start just sharing a little bit about, about you. And I know if you’ve been listening to this podcast for awhile, you probably are familiar with, body Rachel and Kit. Cause they’ve both been on the show and they’re dear friends, also very strong advocates for sexuality, for healing, for wholeness. And so we really are very aligned in our missions.

Kit Murray Maloney (01:49):

Thank you so much for that. Yeah. I was thinking, I love this podcast so much I’m an avid listener and I’m an avid participant in many ways. So thank you for having me back and thank you and Rachel for the three of us stepping into this container of Blood breath and belonging and bringing it to life. And so soon. My name is Kit. Um’ve been in the world of health and wellness for two decades now, and I’ve been in my own journey of exploration around what that means when it comes to embodiment, sexuality, pleasure, and living in communion with one cycle. And that evolution has taken me on a journey with business ventures as well. So one entrepreneurial activity I’ve had is all about celebrating women’s sexual pleasure for healing and safety and empowerment. And that work then transitioned into a new venture. That’s about one year old and she’s such a darling and actually it’s her birthday on her first circle of blood breath and belongings so we might neet to bring her a little cupcake or something. So Kitara Is that venture. And, um is a venture to support connecting to our cycles through ancient practice of vaginal steaming., An so through Kitara we provide products, information and community around using vaginal steaming to heal our womb space, to drop into connection to the second chackra to that healing and all that, that encompasses, um ch of course is pleasure, which of course facing the negative, if not the very commonality trauma that we hold there and being in that balance of receptivity and release that I think is so beautifully mirrored in our cycles as we walk this earth as many body people. Um, my, my role in this, issupporting the entire container and co-creating with each of you and with all the women who step into Blood, Breath and Belonging that I am leading the blood aspect, ofthis circle and am very honored and delighted to do so.

Amanda Testa (04:00):

Yay. Thank you so much Kit. And now over to you, Rachel Sizemore, Rachel, can you share?

Rachel Sizemore (04:07):

Yes. I’d love to I’m so, so happy to be here. I think I was maybe on like the very first episode I interviewed you, I think.

Amanda Testa (04:14):

Yes. I think you’re right. Yeah, you did.

Rachel Sizemore (04:17):

I know that was a really fun interview to do. Yes. So I’m Rachel and aligned with these two lovely ladies in my devotion to the yoni bodied people to sexuality, to expansion, I am a breathwork healer and an embodiment intimacy, mindfulness coach, mentor, being flowing and evolving as we all are. And the piece that I’m going to be bringing to our group is breath work. And as I’m sure we’ll, we’ll get into these modalities. As, as Kit was sharing, I was like, Ooh, let’s talk yoni steaming, can we share our experiences? And we could do the same for breath work. I know we’ve all practiced a lot of that as well. But the idea being that the breath is our life force, the breath. Literally we cannot survive without in, you know, after a few minutes. And generally we go around breathing shallowly, anxious, tight, and there’s a real magic when we invite more oxygen into our bodies, especially when we do it in circle for allowing us to drop in, to feel what needs to be felt to get in touch with our bodies again, to get in touch with our heart. And there’s so much play with breath work and especially in circle. And I know that just given the whole energy of Blood Breath, Belonging, we’ll also be bringing in delight and enjoyment with, with our experience with the breath. So I’m excited for that as well.

Amanda Testa (05:50):

I’m so thrilled. And you know, one of the things we also talked about is how, especially when things get hard and crazy taking the time to take care of yourself, it’s so important. And I know we spoke to this around, you know, wanting something that feels easy and doable and connect you to your aliveness and yourself. And that’s why each of us bring a different aspect of embodiment to offer. And it’s not like something that you have to do, anything you show up and receive. And however it unfolds is how it needs to be. I think that’s what I love about having a practice of taking care of yourself. Sensual self care is I love to call it and I will be leading a pleasure based Sensual Self care practice. So whether that means you show up and you just take a nap, whether that means you show up and you dive a fully into the practice, obviously, you know, the sexuality piece I think is so huge.

Amanda Testa (06:42):

And I think what people sometimes get intimidated by is what that looks like. And what I’m just here to say is everything is always an invitation and there’s always options for you to participate at whatever level feels doable for you. And it’s really about you showing up and tuning into what you need and making sure you get that for yourself in some way. And I think sometimes even just showing up and being held in the space, you don’t even have to do anything and you get so much from it, right? Especially now with all that’s going on in the craziness. It’s like we have all the things coming up and moving into 2021 is having support and feeling held and feeling like you can just show up and deepen and connect to yourself and that’s all you have to do. Or you just show up or, you know, just knowing you can take what you want from it.

Amanda Testa (07:25):

And there’s going to be such an opportunity for depth and connection. And I just feel so excited about it. Cause I know for myself, I was wanting something like this, which is why we all three had this calling. And it was so funny. Cause one morning we’re like, I’ve been thinking about this and I drew this card around collaboration and I love what it says. It says collaboration brings more sweetness into my life and into the world. And I love that. And so thrilled to be doing this and to be able to receive and to give and to support one another and the world in so doing.

Rachel Sizemore (07:57):

I love what you’re touching on here, Amanda. And it just like even want to tease it out further that like we’re so intentionally creating a space for you to connect with you and connect with others. This isn’t a place where you need to read or watch videos or catch up or learn. And granted those spaces are great and sometimes we want to learn, but generally we’re like maybe in a, in a time of life where we’re overconsuming information potentially, and this feels like an offering a circle that’s really about, Hey, how do we create loving community and come together in this time? And also each one of our modalities is intentionally going to be held for you to connect in with you. So over this busy time where we’re going to have holidays, we’re going to have the start of the new year. Generally. It’s really easy to be up and, you know, taking care of family and work stuff and getting gifts and all that stuff. And this circle is intended to be a space for you to drop, to pause, to let all of those other concerns fall away and be you be with you And be, be witnessed and witness others in the living space.

Amanda Testa (09:00):

Yes. Okay. Kit, Would you like to add something there as well?

Kit Murray Maloney (09:04):

Oh, I just, I’m loving all of it. I love what we’re putting out there and feeling into the group. That’s joining us and to expand on what Rachel is saying. You know, we talked a lot about how this is really a container of an experience. And so we’ve all done many courses and we love that. And you gain so much from that, but this is a group that’s coming together to have an individual and shared experience with one another through these three modalities. And it just struck me in talking, the three of us have known each other for a long time now. And there has been a time on each of our paths where we were hesitant, skeptical, nervous, anxious about the very modality that we are now stepping into guiding others through. And so no matter where you are on your awareness of what is breath work, don’t I breathe all day?

Kit Murray Maloney (09:56):

What the heck is Yoni steaming? We can get into that a little more detail. And what are these pleasure practices about, you know, what does it mean this nap that I can take or this Jade Egg insertion, you know, that seems like quite a range of possibilities. And so we’re also here to hold space for that inquiry and for that curiosity. So I think a thread throughout our years together as individuals and as a triad has been allowing ourselves to follow where these pains of curiosity have been felt even if not, especially at the frustration of our logical minds. So, so if you’re listening and this is the invitation is to check in with the ping of curiosity and to allow that to maybe take the driver’s seat and this inquiry around whether or not it’s the aligned fit for you to join us in this experience.

Amanda Testa (10:56):

You know, one thing that you mentioned that just for some reason, pinged this in me, is that kind of, what is this all about? And, you know, I think for many people out there, and I know many of you listening, there is a connection to a practice that supports you, whatever that may be. And sometimes we just want a space where we can just go practice and I have yet to see the studio exist, which I hopefully will one day, or you can go in and do these types of practices in person, obviously right now with COVID we can’t necessarily do that anyway. So this is an opportunity to know, like you would go to the gym, like you would go to a yoga class yet these opportunities for this type of work, it’s, it’s different. It’s a little deeper, but you know, people always ask, well, why, if I have an hour, would I do something like this when I could go to the gym or take a walk or wha tnot, and what I want to share around that, and I would love to, for you to, to share that’s what I found in my own experience.

Amanda Testa (11:46):

And in that of my clients and the women that I work with is that there is something about connecting in a group where you have a shared intention that just magnifies it as well as when you do these deeper practices where you’re really just connecting with yourself. It’s not like you have a specific goal. You’re just allowing what is to be, and to process through you is the most rejuvenating healing thing. And so you can, you know, it’s not like necessarily where you go and do a specific class that you have to go do the specific things like yes, there’s guidance and there’s instruction and you get to make it your own, which I think is so beautiful and doing it in a group, just expands the support and the connection and having that feeling like we’re not in this alone, right? We’re not in this alone.

Amanda Testa (12:29):

We have support. We are around people that have similar goals and dreams and love doing this type of stuff as well. Like that’s the thing I love is just being able to do the deeper things, right? The deeper, the stuff that’s super fun. So I’d love to hear you to also share your perspective on the embodiment practice and like how this has impacted your life. Like why it feels like such a priority that you make time for and enjoy. It’s not like it feels like a, to do, it’s like an enjoyment to do.

Rachel Sizemore (12:58):

I can share first. Gosh, embodiment practice circling. It’s also good. So I’m the breath work healer. And, and I’ve been on my breathwork journey for years now and done a daily practice for a long time taken weeks off from my practice. And currently I’ve been practicing every day and the breath work has been keeping me sane and healthy at moments where like where I live right now, it’s hard to get vegetables I’m living in Mexico currently. It’s the summer. It’s a little bit tricky. So like other parts of my health routine are challenging right now, but breathwork has been this constant. And it, it, as I said, just taps me into my body, to my aliveness, like quiets. My extremely busy mind seems to never shut up except for when I’m doing or after breath work. Not that it always works by the way, mind’s are pretty intense, but, but so the practice of doing the breath has been so beautiful and doing it in circle and doing it on my own.

Rachel Sizemore (13:53):

And I, and I want to offer that space for you to experience that. And I will admit to doing very few self-pleasure practices lately, not none but very few. And I have not yni steamed. I have not steamed my yoni since June since I moved to Mexico. So I actually would have been end of may. And these are two practices that I love that have been hugely healing for me, connecting with my Yoni, steaming, pleasure, all of it. And I find it to be challenging to do on my own. And probably most of you listening can relate because we have seasons with things and I don’t judge or blame myself for that. But I’m really excited for having this space held because there is something really powerful about having a space holder, a healer who’s going to hold the energetic container for you to show up to, for you to be loving to yourself, for you to be conscious. These are the things that we’re going to do as, as the healers in space.

Rachel Sizemore (14:52):

And I say, healer is a space holder. So it’s like being in that dance for the, I have a regular practice and yeah, like I, I embody and also like I need these kind of communal spaces and to be led in the areas where I have maybe more resistance or just have taken a pause and I’m looking forward to starting again.

Amanda Testa (15:13):

Thanks Rachel.

Kit Murray Maloney (15:14):

Yeah, I too was cognizant around today in preparation for gathering to speak to this around just how natural the resistance to healing is. And so these modalities, all three of them have been the conduits for my greatest healing. And I am a quote unquote trained kind of what I was gonna say, expert. That’s just sounding odd, but I’m trained in all three of them, right?

Kit Murray Maloney (15:46):

And some other ones and just feeling how amazing it will be as Rachel saying, to be held by somebody else. Who’s, who’s in the energetic of that healing practice at this time. And it is all fluid. And for me, Yoni, steaming is a medicine I’m putting out into the world and that carries an energetic with it. That’s incredibly important for me at this time in my life breath work and pleasure practices have, as I say, also been a result of my greatest healing. And yet there’s some sort of resistance thats happening because I’m in resistance to both, even as I dance with them and I incorporate them in when I can and all the rest of it. But when Amanda reached out to Rachel and, I just, I think a couple of days ago, cause when the alignment happens, things just fall into place so quickly that I was such a yes, to being part of the circle, part of the experience in each facets of it because I not in a, Oh right.

Kit Murray Maloney (16:50):

I need to get back into myself, pleasure machine, Oh shit, breathwork, need to do it,but I haven’t done it. Those flashed through my mind, but it was really more of a like, Oh yes, I just want to come and be supported in this devotion and have pre carved out this space to be with other women who are also connecting to themselves in this deep, deep way that doesn’t have this linear answer of where were you before? And now what has, have you quote, unquote achieved after like maybe going to the gym might do, if you’re wearing a watch that calculates your steps taken and calories burned and such, and this is just such a different invitation one in which that I certainly am craving and that we’re calling in the others who are craving the intimacy that can happen through looking at the resistance and thinking, yeah, I see you. And I do know that this is really where my heart is leading me towards and that’s does matter. And that’s usually my journey sort of back to and around the practices that meant so much to me.

Amanda Testa (17:57):

Yeah. And I also will say to that too. I think what you mentioned around the resistance is so, so key. Cause we all have that. And also, you know, when we were talking about who we envision here, it’s exactly, as you say, it’s just, you want to come and deepen your practice. You wants to come and just be in celebrate being, you know, together with other people and to really feel that holding and know that going to show up exactly as you are. And that’s awesome. And it’s not going to be overwhelming. You know, it’s about three times a month. So super easy and doable, especially now with all that’s going on. As you mentioned, Rachel too, with all the, sometimes it seems like there’s a lot happening around this time of year. Yet making this time for yourself will help have you feel supported.

Amanda Testa (18:40):

And the more we have that stronger base of support, the more resourced we are, so to speak, then the more we can handle the waves that come, the more we can support the people we love, the more that we have, right. The more capacity. So I think that to feel so key right now, because especially with all this going on, we need to feel resourced. We need to take care of ourselves and it doesn’t have to be a hard thing. Like you mentioned, it’s not like I haven’t done this and I need to do it. It’s more like, yeah, this is an invitation to show up for myself and have accountability in that. And that feels really good. Yeah. Yeah. And feel free to, to share too. Cause I want this to be kind of a conversation because this is, you know, it’s fun. We were just laughing so hard before we even started. Like, there’s also fun too.

Kit Murray Maloney (19:33):

It’s not serious. I mean, I I’m. So with you, I think that what comes through for me with these practices in particular is the inevitable mind game of, is there time? Is this going to matter enough? And every single time it is wonderful and expansive. And that doesn’t mean that there’s always a direct, you know, we’re probably the first people to say, there’s not a certainty to any experience and any practice, whether it’s yoga, running, taking a bath, all these things that feel really good and can have these huge impacts on your life. It doesn’t happen every time. So I’m not like making a guarantee. What I do feel is, is the truth for me is that when we allow ourselves to drop into our body, there’s an expansion and that expansion ripples through, into my days and that shifts my whole dynamic and the way I walked through how I treatt myself and how I treat the people around me.

Kit Murray Maloney (20:39):

And when I hear myself say these words, it’s like, what is more important than all of that? So, yeah. And I think I don’t want to be vague either. And when I say like, these are the biggest healing modalities in my life, like I think I would like to invite some more specificity to that dialogue. I mean, these are the practices that I credit with healing decades long held sexual trauma and abuse with healing my relationship, very problematic attached relationship to alcohol for decades. With healing, self forgiveness around a termination of a pregnancy, I mean big life things. I look to these practices and feel and embodied. Thank you. So as much as it is wonderful and beautiful and delightful is the deep fucking work that we’re talking about as well.

Rachel Sizemore (21:35):

And so true Kit, thank you so much for sharing those things. And I think Amanda and I both have our list of things, these practicesheal and move and, and yeah, I mean, there’s, there’s been moments for me where, where I’ve cried over my, you know, over my Yoni steaming pot, or I’ve, I’ve felt completely numb through a pleasure practice and those, those moments could definitely happen. And I think this is like a beautiful moment maybe to talk a little bit more about the modality specifically, cause I know certainly for self pleasure, but definitely for Yoni steaming before I started was like, wait, wait, wait, tell me again, hold on. I’m going to need a third rundown. And it was very for me, high activation energy to start because it feels very, and I don’t know if you guys have talked about it on the podcast already, but I think dropping in a little bit on it because it is a little bit new and different or not new as you might explain, but new in our, in our collective consciousness right now. And it’s just so freaking Epic.

Amanda Testa (22:33):

Right. I think that’s a good idea. And maybe, you know, each one of us could just take a few minutes to share about what the modality is and what it looks like. Right. So people know what they’re walking into and how it can support them and why it’s such a powerful practice. So yeah. Kit go for it.

Kit Murray Maloney (22:51):

Great. Well, all of this will be available Amanda’s website as well, but just to drop you into, we are Blood Breath and Belonging is going to be a three month container of a sisterhood circle experience that allows us to connect with an opening call at the end of October, a closing call at the end of January. And in between there will be a total of nine calls, three on each of our practices. So I’ll do three calls that really focus on uterine and menstrual health. And there’ll be a Yoni steam practice. And then Rachel is going to do three breathwork sessions. And Amanda will do three self-pleasure sensual sexuality practices.

Kit Murray Maloney (23:39):

As Rachel gave a not to, it’s an ancient practice. It goes back to all lands on this earth. And therefore, if you go far enough back, it is part of all of our bloodlines that said, and the revival of Yoni steaming that’s happening in the United States right now, I give great credit and reference to indigenous peoples and black women and African American folks for being in the leadership of that revival. There are people particularly in indigenous communities who have an immediate connection to their bloodlines. So there’s no lost connection. There’s no separation between for me. I have to go back to a great, great, great, great, great grandmother ancestry. For others, it’s their mother. They learn to steam through their mother and there hasn’t been that, that disconnection. And what is, what does is yoni steaming? In it’s simplest form is sitting over some heated water and so that’s all you would need is a steam pot, stainless steel pot.

Kit Murray Maloney (24:44):

Anything will do so long as it just doesn’t have any chemicals in it and water. And so with that, you sit over the heated water and you drop into the presence with your yoni, with the whole area of your uterus, your vulva, and your vaginal canal with intentional release and gratitude for this part of our body. And I was drawn to it first for the physical benefits for the support of one’s cycle. I honestly didn’t even know that I really had any issue with my cycle. I thought that mild cramps, most months and severe cramps, maybe two or three times a year were just normal actually felt lucky, but that was sort of quote unquote All I had up with my cycle definitely thought that Brown blood before and after it was completely normal. And then I went to a Yoni steam healer a few years ago and truly out of curiosity had no idea what I was getting into and had this huge emotional breakthrough and that like, Whoa, this is a medicine modality that I need to explore in a lot more depth.

Kit Murray Maloney (25:54):

And since then I’ve done lots of trainings and a variety of different experiences, how it’s led by wonderful women and really have seen the ways in which people are drawn to the practice. Usually through one vertical, the physical, the emotional, the spiritual, and then quickly see benefits in all three. And so we, in our time together for the three yoni steam practices, we’ll be doing a Yoni steam, and we may be able to where you may want to further support that steam through buying some aligned herbs and even a steam seat. I would definitely help you with that. Should you choose to buy it from Kitara? And I’ve been thinking about this, we haven’t talked about this, but I would like to offer everybody who joined us an online consultation. So I know where you’re at in your journey with your cycle, because yoni steaming is a beautiful practice for people of any age.

Kit Murray Maloney (26:52):

And so it’s not just for bleeding women. There are postmenopausal women who are steamin and having these incredible, incredible experiences, particularly around remembrance and particularly around this invitation to be deeply connected. And in reverence to this part of our body, even when our culture says for outrageous reasons that it’s somehow no longer important and we will steam. And there’s a likelihood that some folks on the call won’t actually steam because there are some Contra indications, one being while bleeding, you are not wanting to steam while you’re actually menstruating. So if it happens that one of our calls is when you’re bleeding, that’s totally cool. I’ve been to and circles where I’ve been Contra indicated and that time together we’ll have 75 minutes for each of these practices will be a time that’s really held in juicy delightful, sisterhood around connecting to our womb space.

Kit Murray Maloney (27:52):

And so we will be fluid with it, but there will be music and, and prayer and intention and sharing and consultation with me and questions around anything that’s coming up is very welcome in our time together, we probably won’t steam for longer than 15 minutes, which is the recommended time for most folks. Some folks will be recommended to steam for longer, but some folks won’t. So we don’t want to see you for too long for anybody. So all to say that it’s an ancient practice, it’s a wonderful practice. I’m so grateful to it’s revival. And it’s something that if you are feeling the pings toward, I will guide you through the how to questions that your mind is inevitably racing on. Now through the course of this experience that we have together, and there’s plenty of time, purposely from signing up to the first yoni steam gathering, we’ll have to allow for that support to come through and make sure that if you do want extra products, you have them in time and all of that will be nurtured and you really don’t have to worry about it.

Kit Murray Maloney (28:59):

I’ve definitely got you on all of those questions that are circling through. And just a final note, I just want to speak to this time of year. One of the things that feels really powerful to me about blood breath and bones is that there’s something really rich around this time of year. We’re going from autumn into winter. This is the pre menstruation, the luteal time in the way in which that the seasons mirror our cycles, and we’re going into the winter, the blood time, the menstrration season. And there is a way in which women’s bodies open and bleeding times to the receptivity of ancestral messages. And so when I talk about this being a spiritual practice, that is one way in which I have felt it. I have received this connection to my, my grandmother’s, my great grandmothers. Great, great, great grandmothers who I haven’t technically known that I have felt through this journey. And I’ve really been able to deepen into the web of the connectivity amongst all women, amongst all bleeding people. And so I will take a positive, the other modalities can go, know I’ve got you. We can jam on yoni steaming, we will have epic experiences with yoni steaming, and don’t worry about all the Q&As. It’s really not that complicated. And I’m certified and trained to guide you.

Amanda Testa (30:25):

Thank you so much. And we’ll also just FYI in a couple of times we mentioned the website, but there’s going to be a lot of information there too. And so we’ll share that at the end, but how you can find out more, but yes, Rachel share more about breathwork.

Rachel Sizemore (30:36):

I just feel inspired to one of the things you said, kit, thank you for sharing. All of that is around like most people come for one thing and then receive more and just sharing quickly. That is basically what happened to me. I’ve had a lot of issues of my cycle, really terrible cramps. I’d say it was like the main reason that I really want to start steaming. And what ended up happening was like a beautiful piece of my trauma healing, where on my journey with trauma and sexual healing, I dealt with a lot of numbness, a lot of pain in my yoni and a lack of sexual desire.

Rachel Sizemore (31:09):

And I really felt like, and I went to Yoni steaming to work on my cramps, but you know, it’s all really second chakra. . And Yoni steaming really was an integral piece of healing, feeling my numbness, and like feeling, bringing sensation back to my Yoni. So as intimidating as it was to start, I’m so grateful that I did it. And of course, what you speak to about ancestral and spiritual connections. Like there’s so many layers as there are to all these practices, but I just wanted to share that bit about my own yoni steaming journey.

Amanda Testa (31:39):

I’ll just share it too with that. It just feels so amazing as well. Just the whole process. It’s so gentle. And I did just one other thing I wanted to point out for anyone who’s listening is like, well, I don’t bleed, or I don’t have my uterus anymore. You totally can still do all these practices. There’s energetic, a very powerful, energetic space there. And there’s still so many cycles that as women, we are connected to, even if we’re not bleeding, so just know it’s still, you know, it’s still, it’s perfect for you as well. Yeah. All right, Rachel.

Rachel Sizemore (32:07):

Yes, absolutely love that for all of these practices. So breath work again. Can, can give us a range. All of these practices can have us a range of experiences can meet us on the physical, emotional, mental, spiritual levels. One of the reasons why I find breath to be particularly powerful medicine right now is it’s very helpful for anxiety and depression, which I think is in the field pretty heavily right now, as we’re going into election season. And as we’re going into this, you know, this whole year with 2020, and COVID just waves of bigness of intensity that we’re moving through and breath work is a really powerful modality for feeling the things that we’re stuffing down when we’re busy, when we’re trying to get by, we don’t necessarily take the time to feel. Like, Oh, it hurts my heart that this is happening or that this person’s been sick or that I’ve been lonely or whatever.

Rachel Sizemore (33:01):

So all of these modalities are great place to feel your feelings, but breathwork is a particularly beautiful space for that. So I’m really excited for that piece to like help us work through this holiday season, like supporting the bits that feel anxious, that feel depressed, that are struggling with how hard this time has been. Breathwork is really a space where we can like just tenderly hold ourselves in those feelings, which I love. And what I love about it too, is the breath ,does the work it’s it’s so it’s, it’s probably just, I think maybe the, the, the good entry point, which is why it’s week one or week two, it’s the first practice, because all you have to do is lay there and breathe. And however much oxygen you can bring in the breath will literally do the work for you. Your spirit, your breath, your body will show you what’s ready to be felt what’s ready to be moved. What more aliveness you can invite in. So it’s, it can be simple in that way. We will not call it easy. And also, you know, it’s called breathwork. There will be at least one moment you curse my existence, probably multiple, but then mostly at the end, you’ll think the, I think,

Amanda Testa (34:05):

Oh yes. Oh my goodness. I love you. And Rachel is the most amazing breathwork facilitator as well. I love her classes and I just want to reflect too with what you said about how healing it can be like so much, we’re not even aware of. And I like that’s, what’s so amazing about breath work is you don’t have to go into any story. You don’t have to, you know, you just allow your body, this gentle opportunity to release and to feel and to move it through and bring in like that fresh breath and that fresh energy to where it needs to go. It’s amazing. And then nine times out of 10 people at the end of the session will be like, Oh my God, I feel so good. It’s like everything. The world is more alive. You know, all those things. Yeah.

Rachel Sizemore (34:45):

I mean, I’ve been on my breathwork journey. I dunno for like about five years now. And I, I haven’t been, I don’t know. I didn’t draw the map. I don’t know how I got here, but I know for sure, if you breathe more, you will heal. If you breed more, you will love more. If you breed more, you will be happier. It may take five years and they do five minutes. I don’t know your soul gets to decide that, but I know without a doubt, if you breathe more, you will love more. If you breath more, there will be more joy. And so wherever you are in that is beautiful.

Amanda Testa (35:16):

And I love how you mentioned that too. Like, you’ll feel more love, you’ll have more joy. And at the end of the day, I feel like that’s what the invitation for all of this is, is a deeper connection to love a deeper connection to how we are all connected and how, you know, at the end of the day, we can find pleasure in whatever it is that we’re experiencing, all the emotions, whatever. There’s an opportunity to transmute that and to really fully experiencing it in a way that feels supportive, even when it doesn’t look like it sometimes. So, I mean, I think that’s too, what I love about the pleasure practice. And, specifically for this program, I’m going to be offering Jade Egg sessions, which, that might seem intimidating, but just know you don’t even have to have a Jade egg. You don’t have to use an egg, you can just do the practices energetically, like really this is a meet you where you are type of thing.

Amanda Testa (36:02):

And so know, for those of you out there who have maybe a Jade egg and they’re like, Oh, I’m so excited to deepen my practice, I don’t even know what to do with it. So I am excited to learn, or maybe you want one. And again, there’s all that information on the website. If I don’t get one before we start, I can totally help you there. But again, it’s that opportunity for you to connect to yourself deeply to honor whatever’s present and to invite the possibility of more sensation of more pleasure of more expansion of what’s good. And whatever’s there to be cool with it and to really be on that journey. And so really what a Jade Egg practice looks like. It’s honestly, so it’s a lot of dropping in meditation. There’s probably around 20, 30 minutes working with the egg and then, you know, that’s and there’s integration time.

Amanda Testa (36:47):

So it’s really a beautiful practice and people are always wondering like, well, what does it look like? That’s kind of a basic overview. And, you know, typically what I hear at the end of a session is so amazing. I’ve never felt that connected to myself. I love myself in a whole new way or wow. I didn’t notice what I didn’t notice, or maybe I just had a lot of numbess, and celebrating that, you know, that’s really the thing about your sensuality is however it is right in this moment is perfect. So really the intention is for you to celebrate it, celebrate the numbness, celebrate the disconnection, celebrate just that you’re showing up and being open to having this communion with yourself, like bareing yourself to yourself being so, you know, this is just for you and no one sees you on these calls. Like it’s a webinar style. So you have your privacy, you know, just know that too. It’s not like people see you or hear you. No one does. And so there’s a lot of privacy and comfort. So just know that too.

Kit Murray Maloney (37:46):

Yeah. We might see you Rachel and mine. You can turn off you camera.

Amanda Testa (37:56):

What I like to invite people to do. It’s at the beginning. And at the end, if you want to pop on, we can like open. I can open the panel for everyone to join and then turn it back off. So there’s a way to, you know, as much as you want

Kit Murray Maloney (38:07):

I love the way you hold space in these practices, there is a connectivity that I feel like that we’re going to be on a webinar. Those words don’t translate to (laughing), I wanted to chine in there], it’s so much richer, so much connected with people who are on the call live, then what that little sound bite might convey.

Amanda Testa (38:28):

You for pointing that out. I know that sounds, I guess what I mean by that is just that you have your privacy and that’s what

Kit Murray Maloney (38:36):

I mean. Yeah, exactly. We’re all trying to convey is that we, we hold all of what people are bringing in a really special, intentional and sacred way. So where you come is how you show up is, is health. And so we have already thought through things like concern around being heard or being seen, and there will be so many options for folks to be able to guide themselves through the traces that are best for them. And what came through for me and listening to speaking about breathwork and self-pleasure is that, you know, in some ways I thought we should just call this a consciousness raising group. It’s a little seventies ish, then like that’s also really what we’re doing. And we’re just using these practices that have meant so much to us as a way to facilitate our consciousness rasing. And so that’s something that is just so juxtaposed to so many of our other self care practices in our culture.

Kit Murray Maloney (39:41):

Right now, these are integrated with intentionally looking. Now I’m going to go into this breath work space with, in devotion to, you know, exploring why in such a cranky mood right now. You know what I mean? It can be something that simple and then having it be unearthed something way deeper than we just did not have awareness of. And same goes with self-pleasure same goes with Yoni steaming. These are practices in which we do not need, but can, and often do receive messages that it’s time for us to expand or shift in ways we just had no awareness of before going into them. And that’s one of the ways in which I think they’re so powerful.

Amanda Testa (40:26):

I love that. And I think too, you know, one of the things we talked about is how really the blood breath and belonging piece, why we came up with that name is because these are all such integral pieces. And as you know, Vulva bodied people, we have this opportunity to use our bodies as a creative, you know, as a creative force. And so, however that looks for you, but I truly believe the more we connect and, and feel comfortable and whole in our own bodies, the easier it is to let that expand. And so it’s an opportunity to tap into that and I feel the more we can awaken and own and these parts of ourselves that have been so shamed and stunted forever, that the more where we’re free to shine and be vibrant and outrageous and all the things that were meant to be right, and to stand up for what we believe in. And I love to say that awakened pussies smash the patriarchy because they do. And that’s like, yes, we want that. We have power and we can cultivate it in a way that feels good and doable. And it’s so fun. Yeah. Go ahead. Rachel.

Rachel Sizemore (41:30):

I just wanted to name one thing too, just from my, with experiened of doing self-pleasure practices in group settings and as a community, just as we’re getting energized about the pussies taking down the patriarchy and talking about the parts of us that are shamed, that feel shame and that are shamed in our culture. For sure. For me, it was an edge, even being a webinar’s style to like be on have my headset, have Amanda like guiding me through touching myself sensually, I was like, like looking around is, is the priest going to pop out and wagged his finger at me, Catholic upbringing? Here it is. Right. So like, just naming that I had discomfort, I had shame, I had this piece. That’s like, am I allowed to do this? And it came in and out, like we I’ve done many practices with you virtually Amanda and in her. So Epic and wonderful. And there’d be days where the shame was present and I didn’t have much pleasure and there’ll be days where I was like, Oh, I’m amazing.

Rachel Sizemore (42:30):

And I felt so embodied and great, but just, I think the more we can name it and you were alluding to it already, Amanda, that like it exists in the field. This are, we allowed to, to have pleasure where other people are kind of in the space, you know, as we’ve said, it will be private. You won’t be seen, but you know, there’s a group component to it and it’s like, yes, we’re allowed. And it’s actually awesome, secret = It’s amazing. If you can allow yourself to play to, to just tiptoe in and, and be in group energetic pleasurable space. It’s, it’s great. I mean, of course your body, you may experience numbness. You may experience pain, but as Amanda saying, she holds that like an invitation to hold accept, even enjoy whatever part of your experience you’re on. And as we’re all sitting in the frequency of all of you as welcome, whatever your experience is, is so beautiful.

Rachel Sizemore (43:20):

You can ride that the group energy can maybe help you hold yourself in new ways and experience new things. It’s like, there’s actually something to the group alchemy in all of these practices. And specifically in group pleasure practices.,

Amanda Testa (43:33):

I totally agree there because I think part of it, it helps to heal those shame pieces. It’s like, what if our culture celebrated you and your full orgasmic pleasure and encouraged that and said, yes, yes, allow yourself enjoy it. Surrender even more. It is so good, you know, our culture doesn’t teach us that. So we have to be, we have to reteach ourselves because it’s, it’s a memory that we all have access to. We just have to dust off the layers of conditioning oftentimes. And so these practices are a beautiful way. Like all of them are such a beautiful way to reconnect to your original essence, that blueprint of your vibrancy. That’s already there. Yeah. Go ahead Kit.

Kit Murray Maloney (44:12):

It’s intentional thatWe’re hosting these as live calls together. Even if not, especially the pleasure onens, right. I love how Rachel is like “secret. It’s amazing” I wish you could see her the way she is smiling. It totally. And it is a secret, you know, it is not something that’s wildly discussed or maybe not even one body. And I do share like the first time I had Amanda lead this group that I was in as like, even though I had scheduled, it asked for it, there were like a dozen women showed up and it was incredible as, as it always is. Just what a paradigm shift to gather for these practices together, live in community with one another. This is the type of stuff that just like not only turns me on, but just gives me great hope for the direction in which we can take ourselves in these otherwise really challenging and struggling times

Amanda Testa (45:19):

It’s so funny, an inquiry I was given today. It was have to read it again so I can remember exactly how it went, but it was a what, small, doable way. What’s small doable things create a feeling of pleasurable connection. Can you bring in? And, and so it was funny. Cause one of the things I realized with COVID then I’m really missing is being around a lot of people, you know, rubbing up a lot, a lot of against a lot of other different bodies, being at concerts, doing all the things, you know, running naked down the beach with all my witchy sisters, like all the things that we can’t do right now, as easily as we once could. And so I think that’s why I just am so thrilled to have this togetherness. Right. And it feels really good. So with that being said, is there anything else that either of you would like to add before we close Kit, maybe you want to share the things that you shared, like what you were talking about in the beginning. Like here’s what I want

Kit Murray Maloney (46:11):

Because I also, I feel that now, so, in feeling into this, we wanted to make sure we were aligned and intentional around how we wanted folks to feel when they leave our practices. And at the end of January, and these three things came really clearly to me and they’re present with me right now, cause this is after after this is how I feel after having conversations like this, which is that women are freaking amazing. And when we come together and I mean all women to be inclusive of feminine identified people and you, anybody folks and this feminine energy and intentionality of what we’re creating and when we come together and when they’re just invitations and collaborations, it flows in with this clicking into place, ease. And this magnificence that I have found abundant when it comes with circling with women. And I find it a specialnessn being with women that I’m reminded that by being with women in a way that I haven’t found elsewhere. And so that is one of the things that I can see us all leaving just like Holy smokes, women are incredible. And then for us also to really be tapped into the remeberance and truth that our bodies are absolutely Incredible, magnificent, divine, foundational aspects of our experience in this lifetime and that they are gifts for us to explore and celebrate and their magnificence just knows no bounds. And I feel that in this conversation, just in exploring these three modalities, it’s wild like, we bleed we breathe we orgasm. Like these are incredible things that we get to experience by deep in human form right now. And we get to celebrate that and that is such a joyous thing. And then finally that because of all of this, this inner knowing this ability to trust and surrender into the truth that we simultaneously don’t know shit, and we know that things are going to be okay. That when we come back into ourselves and when we do that in community with women, we can sit with our backs up straight and rest on the truth that this world is going to be. Okay. And that’s everything right now. So

Amanda Testa (48:39):

Thank you so much Kit. Yeah. feel that so deeply. Gosh, Rachel, did you have any, any last words?

Rachel Sizemore (48:47):

Yeah, the last thing I’ll say, thank you for sharing those Kit, feel so good is just, just to, just to drop us all into like, if this is for you, you know, you know, and you are so, so welcome, just naming that you might feel a little fear or shame or a curiosity that’s bordering on is, ah, I don’t know. Or, you know, you may find that that one practice isn’t right and perfect fit in this moment. And, and, and we just want to hold all of that. Any shame you have is welcome. Any fear, any excitement, any curiosity, any trepidation, and invite you to really come back to your heart and just check in, Hey, is this for you? Are you meant to be here with us? And if you are, we’re so happy to have you join and really want you to know that like all of you is welcome. All of you is loved. All of you is held wherever you are on the journey with any or all of these practices. This space is for those who are, who are called to be here. And, and you’re so, so welcome and so loved wherever, wherever you are.

Amanda Testa (49:54):

Yes. Thank you so much, Rachel. Well, I’m so thrilled and I just have to say too, one of the things, sometimes I think that this type of work can give me, which I mentioned earlier, it’s kind of like this, it’s like this magical cloak I can put on and go out into my world with like these special secrets and connected, connected to my own magic and resourcefulness and resilience. And so then I have this magical cloak that I go out into my world into my day and all the things that come at me don’t hit as hard, or I have better resilience to like move through them. And I just think that is a needed thing right now. So for all of you listening, yes. If you feel a call, this is calling your name or you’re curious, then you can find more. You can go to www.Amandatesta.com/bbb for blood breath and belonging.

Amanda Testa (50:42):

So three B’s and there you can find all the info and it’s going to be starting on October 29th. So again, we would love to have you, and yet just as well to know, like these practices are available to you and any time that you want to learn more, if now’s not, it there’s always time. So just know this invitation is now because we feel this is so needed. And so, yeah. Thank you all for listening and thank you so much, Rachel and Kit, and two you’ll find, if you want to find out more about Rachel and Kit, all that information will to be on the website. Www.Rachelsizemore.Com is how you can find Rachel. She also has a lovely podcast called Ripen and Kit. You can find at www.kitaralove.com So that’s how, if you want to find out more about all of us, you can do that and we will hopefully see you in the circle. And thank you all. Talk to you next week.

Amanda Testa (51:40):

Thank you so much for listening to the Find your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me www.amandatesta.com/activate, And we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook and the group find your feminine fire group. And if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

Breast health, what every woman should know…

Curious how circadian rhythm and inflammation affect breast health?  If you’re looking to increase wellness and vitality in your breasts and beyond, tune in as I’m talking with Dr. Felice Gersh,  an award-winning physician, a rare combination of a Board-Certified OB/GYN who is also fellowship trained and Board Certified in Integrative Medicine.  She is also the bestselling author of PCOS SOS: A Gynecologist’s Lifeline to Naturally Restore Your Rhythms, Hormones and Happiness. 

Tune in to discover how important our circadian rhythm is and how we get “off the beat”, and some simple tips to “get back on the beat” , as well as you will discover how inflammation affects breast health and what to do if you’ve been told you have dense breast tissue.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

In this episode you’ll discover

What are some of the important rhythms we experience as women?What happens when our rhythms, especially our circadian rhythm is out of balance.  Some simple tips to get “back on the beat” to improve our bodies optimal functioning.How inflammation affects breast health and what to do if you’ve been told you have dense breast tissue.The ideal way to use “Intermittent Fasting” or “IF” as a weight loss tool. The most ideal time of the month for fasting. and much more!

I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Gersh for my special 21 Days of Delicious Breast Care Summit last year, and her interview was so powerful I wanted to share it again, as she brilliantly shares some important tips to decrease inflammation in our bodies, honor our natural rhythms, and support the health of not only our breasts but our entire bodies.  As October is breast cancer awareness month, it felt timely to share. 

Felice L. Gersh, M.D. is a rare combination of a Board Certified OB/GYN who is also fellowship trained in Integrative Medicine at the University of Arizona School of Medicine. Her career has evolved over the years into one which utilizes the most cutting-edge and high-tech diagnostic testing, while incorporating science-based therapies – from the herbal to the surgical – to assist in the healing process.

Find out more about Dr. Gersh and her book HERE.

Follow her on Instagram HERE.

Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!

If you would like to learn more about how sensual self care can transform your life, Schedule a free consult HERE.

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a Sex Love and Relationship coach. And in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex love and relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Hello everyone. And welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am so thrilled today to be talking with Dr. Felice Gersh, and we’re going to be diving into circadian rhythm and inflammation, how that affects our breast tissue. So if you’re looking to increase wellness and vitality in your breasts and beyond tune-in, as we dive in, and I’m so thrilled to have Dr. Gersh here today, she is an award winning physician, as well as a rare combination of a double board certified OB GYN, who is also fellowship trained and board certified in integrative medicine. So with so many years of great wisdom to draw from= and as well as being, you know, yearly award winning as a top physician. So welcome Dr. Gersh. Thank you so much for being here today.

Dr. Felice Gersh (01:07):

Well, I’m so happy to be here and to talk about this topic, which is so critically important to every woman and so much on her mind, the whole concept of how to optimize the health of her breasts. Yeah.

Amanda Testa (01:19):

Yes. Thank you. And I feel like, you know, it’s not something women think about a lot, but I do feel like it’s just a very important issue, especially now that it’s breast cancer awareness month, just to bring attention to this, not just this month, but always so. And I know that you’re really dedicated to women and focusing on women’s health as well as kind of really having that unique emphasis on how our heart rhythms and our hormones affect our health overall. But I’d love to just have you start with sharing a little bit about, you know, why you’re so passionate about this work. That you do.

Dr. Felice Gersh (01:51):

Well it’s, it is a very much of a passion for me. It all began way back when I was a kid actually, and my parents sort of steered me into a direction that I had three choices for a career, I could be, it had to be something, a service, something that would actually help people. So I could be a teacher or a lawyer cause they felt they were actually lawyers. They felt they actually helped people a lot or a doctor. And I was very good in math and science and I thought, well, this is really what I want to do. And I started volunteering at the local children’s hospital and I loved arts and crafts. So I did arts and crafts with the children who were hospitalized and it just made my heart sing to see children smile and getting better.

Dr. Felice Gersh (02:37):

And then I, when I went to medical school and I thought about what kind of a career would really suit me, I just fell in love with OB GYN. I felt it had it all. It had excitement, drama romance was like every, you know, you had your adrenaline rushes when you went in to dash to make a delivery and you also have consistency of care. So you can see women for decades and you would take care of them often as their primary care doctor. And then of course you could do high tech surgery. So it really had everything that I wanted in a career. And over the years, I’ve really sort of morphed. So about, almost like about a decade ago, it was my time to give up obstetrics and I’d love doing it. And then after that, I felt so lost because I had so much circadian rhythm dysfunction from all those middle of the night deliveries.

Dr. Felice Gersh (03:24):

I just couldn’t from my own health, continue doing it for longer after that point. And that was what turned me really down the path towards integrative medicine, looking for ways to optimize women’s health beyond doing things like surgery, which I was very good at, but I didn’t want to do end stage disease care. I wanted to prevent the need for surgery, not just do surgery. And I knew that there had to be more than a birth control pill as a treatment because that seemed to be the go to for everything. So it led me here today with, with you looking and helping to explore with other women, how to really live the life of a healthy woman, which really doesn’t get enough attention because we live in a very challenging world. And so that’s what I’m here for to help women to really optimize their health.

Amanda Testa (04:13):

And I love that integrative approach because I think, you know, so often we have everything so segmented. And so, you know, as, as all these years of working with women and, you know, especially regarding our, our rhythms and things of that nature, I’m curious how, you know, when it comes to breast health, what are some things that we can do to really optimize that? Not only just obviously for our breasts, but in general?

Dr. Felice Gersh (04:37):

Well, that is exactly the way I look at it. The breasts are not a separate part of the body. In fact, you just, like you mentioned everything in the body is a whole, so, and in a way that’s good in a way it’s bad, depending on how you look at it. So if you do something that’s good for your brain and your heart, it’s going to be good for your breasts. On the other hand, if you do things that are bad for your brain and your heart, they’re also going to be bad for your breasts. So what we have to look at is the female as a whole. So we are amazing creatures. We’re rhythmic in so many ways. We have our circadian rhythm, which is the 24 hour rhythm. But as women in the reproductive years, we also have lunar rhythms, so beautiful dance that we have with the moon.

Dr. Felice Gersh (05:19):

And we have the seasonal rhythms as well. And then we have rhythms that are called ultradian rhythm. So these are like pulsating with them throughout the day where we have pulses of hormones and different signaling agents that vary throughout the day. So nothing in our bodies is static. So it’s really foundational to know that everything is sort of in a flux, in a beautiful rhythm, but in our lives. Now we are. So they’re so disrupted our beautiful rhythms. And so the price is to be paid in virtually every system of our body and the breasts are very vulnerable. So we’re seeing an, you know, an escalating amount of breast cancer in both the premenopausal, which is really increasing premenopausal, breast cancer, and post-menopausal breast cancer, as well as women sort of lose their, their rhythms with age and with environmental toxins. And with our loss of our alignment with our, our day, you know, that we’re seeing too much light, we’re going to bed at the wrong time or eating without any kind of rhythm. We’re just many people have some sort of caloric drinks sitting on their desk and they’re sipping all day long. So essentially there’s no rhythm to their eating. And so we need to go back to really fundamentals, to get in alignment with the beautiful rhythms that we were born to, to be living with. And now we’re living against,

Amanda Testa (06:43):

And I’m curious what some of the main, you know, symptoms that you see when our rhythms are so disrupted, what are some, some things that women may notice is going on that they can be like, Hmm, I am feeling this way.

Dr. Felice Gersh (06:54):

When you have a disconnect, a disruption of your rhythms, you will have what I call metabolic chaos. Essentially. Every organ in our body works in conjunction with every other organ. It’s a beautiful synergy. And of course the brain is very circadian and we have like a totally different brain in the day and in the night. So if we look at our brain to begin with starting at the top, when we are misaligned with our rhythms, our brain is not going to work, right. And we will have brain fog. We will have mood problems, we’ll have depression, anxiety, and sleep problems. So we’ll, we won’t be able to sleep properly. So our brain is just clearly not going to be optimally functioning when we do not have proper rhythm. And if we jumped down to the liver, which is the metabolic powerhouse of the body, when the liver is off it,s going to go into a state of inflammation.

Dr. Felice Gersh (07:49):

And we know that inflammation in the liver can ultimately lead to fatty liver, which is now an epidemic. Some people estimate over a third of people, maybe close to a half, have some degree of fatty liver. And when you have this abnormal fat deposition, the liver, the liver starts to do things at normally unrelated to what the body needs. So we can do what we call uncontrolled gluconeogenesis, where it’s just pouring out sugar and it can pour out fat triglycerides. And of course that can lead to cardiovascular disease, metabolic problems like diabetes and prediabetes, which are very prevalent in women who are living off the beat, as I say, so you’re going to have brain fog. You’re going to have mood problems, sleep problems. You’re going to be fatigue. And then you’re going to have increased risk of insulin resistance. And of course, when you have high levels of insulin that causes fat deposition.

Dr. Felice Gersh (08:43):

So then you have weight problems. So you can’t lose weight. You can’t have high insulin and high sugar and simultaneously be losing weight. So then, and the weight tends to go to the middle. So you get the infamous belly fat. So you can see where this is heading. And then when you have chronic end up getting gut inflammation, because it turns out that everything in our GI tract is very rhythmic. We have a special nervous system of our gut called the enteric nervous system. That’s why some people say our gut is like our second brain. And that is very, to say the least rhythmic, right? We should have the gut doing things in the day and not at night. So people who have to go to the bathroom all night long, whether it’s actually for urination or have bowel movement, that’s really wrong. That’s a circadian rhythm problem because our bladders should not still at night and our gut should be quiet at night.

Dr. Felice Gersh (09:38):

And we should be doing everything with the rhythm of our guts. And as well, we have bacteria in our gut, our little micros, our gut microbiomes, and they have clock genes too. It turns out every living creature on earth has clock genes, cloth genes are what, keep everything moving on the beat. And they don’t know what time of day it is except by when you eat. And so if you’re eating all day long, if you’re eating late at night, you’re going to have major circadian rhythm dysfunction in your guts. And that can increase more liver inflammation, irritable bowel syndrome. And so much of our immune system resides right around our gut. So then you get the wrong bacteria. They make what are called endotoxins, and then you don’t have the proper mucus protectant. And then you get impaired barrier function or leaky gut. And these toxins go right through, into our own inside of our body.

Dr. Felice Gersh (10:36):

Really immune system is, and the immune system is like, Oh my gosh, invaders. And they explode with inflammation. Then you have systemic inflammation, which further drives insulin resistance. And the inflammatory cytokines go into our brain, creating more inflammation in our brain. And all of this is happening in our breasts as well with the inflammation. And then you have breast inflammation. So when you have a state of chronic inflammation that can lead to DNA breakage, and that can lead to cancer. So all of this leads ultimately to a state of uncontrolled insulin to try to counter the uncontrolled blood sugar and all this chronic inflammation and the immune system is also circadian. So you’re also going to have a disrupted immune system as well. So it’s not going to be optimally functioning either. So you can see how really the circadian rhythm and staying on the beat for that’s for the 24 hour rotation of the earth is critical to every single function in the body. And this has just been completely ignored. But of course, we didn’t even know that we had a circadian rhythm. We didn’t know we had a clock genes or a master clock in our head until only about twenty years ago. So we didn’t, we had no clue that any of this was really important. We just knew that people who worked odd hours or stayed up late at night or ate randomly, they just didn’t really feel well. But we didn’t really, we didn’t put all the pieces of the puzzle together until very, very recently.

Amanda Testa (12:08):

Yeah. And I’m curious, what are some things? So if we wanted to move from being off the beat to getting back onb the beat, how, what can we do?

Dr. Felice Gersh (12:18):

There’s so much we can do ,That you should start with is eating to the beat. So that means that you should have breakfast. I know that that’s sort of become fashionable now to fast through breakfast, but that actually is not optimal at all. It really helps a lot of people know, even if they don’t know anything about rhythms, they somehow know that there’s a rhythm to cortisol and that you should have a high cortisol in the morning and that it should be low at night. And then the opposite rhythm is sort of the melatonin rhythm, where you have low melatonin in the day. And then melatonin comes up at night. And that actually is related to eating as well. So we want to eat to be in alignment. So we should eat no more than three meals a day, no snacking, somewhere down the line. Somebody came up with this idea, which is really bad, really bad that you should eat like every two hours all day long to maintain your blood sugar and your insulin.

Dr. Felice Gersh (13:15):

That is not what, how we evolve. Can you imagine then to human species will be here. It’s, you know, 20,000 years ago, humans had to eat every two hours in order to maintain blood sugar. So that is not how our bodies work. So we’re much better off not to doing that. And so we should eat breakfast and you, in the beginning, I call it like the beginners, you know, eat breakfast, eat lunch, eat dinner, stop eating preferably by 7:00 PM because between seven, 8:00 PM, our pancreas actually goes to sleep and, and our insulin is not going to be produced properly. So if you eat after seven, eight at night, of course we can get away with things sometimes. But if you do it on a regular basis, you’re going to be stressing out your pancreas and increasing your risk of diabetes, prediabetes, and weight gain. So we don’t want to do that.

Dr. Felice Gersh (14:06):

So we want to have breakfast prior to doing the same time every day of the week, because if you do crazy different things on the weekend, we call them social jet lag. That’s because if you have real jet lag and you’re constantly flying across time zones, that’s a problem. But if you do it to yourself, by having different schedules every day or week, like you’re in different time zones, that’s equally bad. So, and obviously it was special occasions or whatever, but we want to try to do this most of the time. So you try to have breakfast the same time, every day, lunch and dinner. Now, when you get more in advanced, then you could do cause most people don’t want to give up dinner. So I understand that, but you could do breakfast and then skip lunch or do what I do, which is I’ll have like a fast bar,uwhich is like another bar that was created by the fasting company L-Nutra,

Dr. Felice Gersh (14:56):

Where I’m actually I’m on their medical advisory board. So I, I love what they do. And we can talk about fasting and helping with the beat. So or you could have some olives, or you could have like a small piece of avocado or some macadamia nuts. What are those? They’re basically fats. So if you eat fat, you’re going to keep your insulin level down. So you can have like a little fat, just a little bit with like a big mug of green tea or some herbal tea for lunch. And if you have a good size of breakfast, you’re not going to be very hungry and you maybe take a month or six weeks to adjust to this schedule. After you’ve gotten on the beat of eating, just breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And then after maybe a couple of months, you can move into the more advanced where you do this sort of fasting, mimicking type of a thing for lunch, or just even skip it.

Dr. Felice Gersh (15:44):

If you have a big enough breakfast and then have an early medium sized dinner. So that’s not too bad, you know, you’re, but you’re not snacking, but you can drink and hydrate all the time. And if you desperately need a snack, you know, have a few olives or a little sliver of avocado, if you desperately have that a snack, but usually by hydrating. And if you have a big breakfast, it’s amazing that actually reduces your appetite for the rest of the day. And for people who want to lose weight, I tell them to have a big raw vegetable salad. I know that’s not the traditional American breakfast, but it’s actually, most people are trying to lose weight. I mean, you are great and we’re not, not, everybody’s trying to lose weight, but probably 80% of people are trying to lose weight. So maybe 90. So if you start your day with a big vegetable salad, you know, all the raw food, then that is amazing that it actually helps lose weight.

Dr. Felice Gersh (16:39):

They sound that if you eat the same food raw or cooked, if it’s Raul, you’re more likely to lose weight. And if you eat a nice big breakfast, you’ll be less hungry for the rest of the day. It gets your metabolism going get that cortisol down. So cortisol increases insulin resistance when it stays up. So we don’t want to have high cortisol all day long. We went to, and that’s what we don’t want to skip breakfast. And this will really get you going on the beat every day. The other thing is getting bright light. So it turns out that our dermatology friends, that they got it a little wrong. What can you say? A lot of people, you know, I’ve gotten things wrong in my life too. So we have to say when I was wrong, I was wrong. So the idea that you should avoid the sun is very bad advice.

Dr. Felice Gersh (17:25):

Now we don’t want to get a burn when I’m advocating, not advocating for that. So we don’t want to get a burn, but we do want to get sun. So it turns out that the sun in our eyes, we have special receptors actually for sunlight in our eyes that go directly to the master clock. Then it’s the top of the optic nerve in the hypothalamus of the brain. And that helps to get our clock back in alignment. It’s called entrainment cause every day, it drifts a little bit and that bright light in the morning, we’ll get your master clock in your brain back on the beat. And it’s even better than that. Not only does it do that, but bright light increases our body’s production of serotonin in our brain. And serotonin is that neuro transmitter. It makes us feel good and alert and calm.

Dr. Felice Gersh (18:15):

And when we get up that bright light in the morning and another set of bright lights, like for about 15, 20 minutes with no sunglasses with the bright light in the mid day, that helps us from that serotonin that we’re making at night, serotonin turns into melatonin. So you sleep so much better, which is so important. And a lot of people, one of the reasons why they don’t sleep well at night is they don’t get enough lights in the day. They’re living in these like artificial caves, you know, called business cubicles or whatever. You know, a lot of people don’t even have windows where they work and or if they have windows, they’re very dark. And, you know, with, you know, like the, to keep the sunlight out. So they’re very dark windows or they have shades all over them. And so they really don’t get much sun.

Dr. Felice Gersh (19:04):

And then they’re just inside all the time. And then they come in and dark in the morning. Then they leave it’s dark at night and they never see the light. And of course we know that there’s seasonal affective disorder that people in Northern climates yet when they don’t get enough light, what we do that to ourselves, even in where I live, I mean, Southern California, some people never see the sun. So getting that bright light in the morning, first thing. And if you can’t because you’re in a dark place, you know, the seasons and it’s dark in the winter, you can get a light box. You can even get a Dawn simulator where the light gets brighter and brighter. So there are many ways you can, they’re very inexpensive to get a light box. If you do it with a light box, you want to get 10,000 Lux.

Dr. Felice Gersh (19:46):

That’s how they measure the light in the morning when you first wake up and then in the mid day for also like about 15, 20 minutes, and this will make all the difference in having restorative sleep and having energy and having serotonin. Remember when you talked about mood problems, women who don’t live to the beat, how so many mood problems, something like a quarter of all women now are on antidepressants. What is that saying about us? You know, and, and they have a whole host of problems associated with them. And along with the fact that they don’t usually help from most women either, and they have, you know, all these side effect profiles. So we can deal with so much with these mood problems by getting enough sleep by getting enough light in the day, Like dark at night. That’s another thing. Like I personally sleep with a,

Dr. Felice Gersh (20:35):

Sleep mask, which, because I get too much ambient light in through my windows at night. And, and I, you know, they’re cracks and everything and internet hotel rooms. Cause I travel and speak a lot. There’s all these little lights everywhere on TVs and radios that I’m going around with. I used to go around with the grab this house from the bathroom and try to cover everything I just put on. I just put on a sleep mask because not getting enough sleep will increase breast disease, breast problems. So, and of course there’s links to everything. So once you put, when you link to the breast and breast health to the health of all the rest of the body, then it makes it easier to sort of correlate everything because what’s good for your brain is good for your breasts. What’s good for your heart is good for your breasts. And you know, essentially most of us, our bodies are kind of sinking in the poor scheduling and then of course with the food. So we want to start with eating on the beat and then they didn’t getting the lights. And that’s a good way to start to get it, to get back on the beat.

Amanda Testa (21:41):

One question to you to go back to the fasting part, because I know you mentioned, you know, for women, especially it’s important to eat breakfast and you and you are right, because I know there’s, there’s the intermittent fasting is so big now where you don’t eat breakfast. So I’m curious why for women, it is. So, you know, you kind of dived into that, but how can you use that intermittent fasting while still eating breakfast? I guess so.

Dr. Felice Gersh (22:02):

Oh sure. So I would, you know, things come and go in fads and well, for whatever reason, this fed has developed that you should fast for 16 hours and it should be through breakfast. And then you start eating in the mid day or early afternoon. That is not science. That is not a good idea. I wish people would just stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it. Okay. So you’re going to maintain your high cortisol, which drives insulin resistance and inflammation. So we do not want to do that. Now, if you compare like everything is, if you compare to the standard lifestyle or the standard American life, okay. Where you’re eating nonstop, you’re eating for breakfast pastries and you know, bacon, you know, or something like that. And then you’re eating, you’re drinking a very high sugary juice juice, and you’re drinking coffee with all kinds of serums in it.

Dr. Felice Gersh (22:54):

So, and then you’re drinking that coffee syrupy drink all day long. And then for lunch, you’re eating fast food, you know, fries and some kind of a burger. So if you compare fasting through breakfast to that, then you’re going to be better off fasting through breakfast. Right. But if we compare it to something better, like having a vegetable stiry fry with maybe organic tofu or even, you know, a couple of organic eggs mixed with, you know, like scrambled with a bunch of vegetables or my favorite is the breakfast salad. You know, if you compare it to that, then what I’m recommending wins hands up. Okay. But if you use the standard American crappy lifestyle, anything is going to be better than that. Never eating isbetter than always eating that stuff. But if you want to go for what’s really optimal, then you want to do fasting, but you want to do it, right?

Dr. Felice Gersh (23:48):

So remember it’s not just what you eat, it’s when you eat it. And it’s not just that you fast, it’s how you fast. And when you fast. So for example, if you eat all night and fast all day, that’s a problem because we are diurnal. We are not nocturnal. So you, and if you fast, so half of the day when we should be active in our immune systems are like most robust. And that’s when you’re not eating, that is giving the wrong clues to your body, okay. About what’s going on. So what you want to do is fast for 13 hours. Now that would mean, and you want to eat breakfast optimally within two hours, you don’t have to get up and instantly eat, but optimally by two hours after you get up, that’s giving you a nice little cushion there now. So if you now where’s the 13 hours coming from some research, okay.

Dr. Felice Gersh (24:44):

We didn’t make that up. And there’s for example, women who’ve had breast cancer. Okay? So they’ve had breast cancer and now you want to not have breast cancer recur because you want to live. Okay. The study shows 13 hours, not 12 hours, unfortunately, but 13 hours significantly lowers the risk of breast cancer recurrence. So now what if you say, well, I’ll do a 14, 15, 16, there’s very little return on investment for going beyond 13 hours. So why do it? It’s like painful not to eat for so many hours, so then we don’t want it. And we don’t. And the way that you have to do that, if you’re going to fast, longer would mean eating dinner earlier, not eating breakfast later. So what you would have to do is stop eating earlier. Now there was a study that was done with women with PCOS, which is one of my specialties and it was out of Israel.

Dr. Felice Gersh (25:39):

And in that study, they had the women eat two thirds of their calories for breakfast. And one third, it was proximate for lunch and basically one bite for dinner, basically virtually no dinner. And obviously most people wouldn’t want to do that. This was a study, but in just one month, their insulin dropped 50% that when you drop the insulin, that’s how you feel lose weight. You can’t have high insulin and lose weight because insulin promotes fat storage and production. So that’s amazing. The women started ovulating, which means their hormones were balanced. You have to have proper hormones to have a proper functioning body and to have healthy breasts as reproductive age woman. So this was phenomenal. So where did they have the fasting from lunch to breakfast? Not from dinner to lunch. So we really need to just get rid of that. And by the way, there’s studies showing more plaque building up in arteries in people who skip breakfast.

Dr. Felice Gersh (26:41):

So we want have fasting the way our bodies were designed to be fasting, which is overnight and not into the middle of the day. So you want to have a dinner, say you have dinner and you finish at 7:00 PM. Then you have breakfast the next day. You know, you can have between eight and nine. Otherwise if you have to get up earlier and have breakfast earlier, then you have to move dinner earlier or, you know, you have to work around it. Okay? So that is what is optimal. And it’s not like we have a choice. Okay. We are programmed with clock genes. So we have our master clock in our brain. And then all of our other cells in our bodies have clock genes about one third of the genes in our body are what they call clock genes. But 90% of the genes in our bodies work with clock genes.

Dr. Felice Gersh (27:32):

And these are set in our DNA. These are not like, you know what? I think I would rather live the life of a bat . You know, no, you can do it, but you’re not changing your genes. You’re working against your genes. So you’re going to have problems. You know, it just it’s like I would like to wake up tomorrow and have a third eye on the back of my head. That would be convenient for when I’m driving, because my car doesn’t have a camera that goes, I’m driving an older car. So I don’t like turning around, you know, I just want another, you can’t do it. We are what we are. You know, like owls look like owls and humans look like humans and our clock genes are embedded in us, in our genes, in our DNA. It’s who we are. So when we live in discord with how our bodies were designed to live, we are going to have medical problems.

Dr. Felice Gersh (28:23):

We’re going to have mood problems, metabolic problems. And that sets the stage for cancer because everything is off the beat and that’s really important. And it doesn’t matter, you know, that what we want, it matters what we are and it’s, so we have a whole society of people and I was one of them that, and you know, that, that work at night, and this is such a challenge. There’s data published that women who work the night have higher rates of breast cancer. They also have higher rates of diabetes, metabolic syndrome, depression, obesity, you know, it’s not a good picture. So I don’t have a solution for people who chose a career where they’re going to have to work at night. And the worst are like the doctors who work in emergency rooms, you know, or nurses that are on and off because there’s no consistency.

Dr. Felice Gersh (29:14):

So there were like three, three days a week. They’re working at night and then one day a week, they’re working in the day and then the others enjoy whatever they want. You know? So it’s theirs, they’re constantly in a metabolic dysfunction because they’re always off the beat. They have no consistency. So for people who do work at night, and this is a tough one, it’s best to try and take. What I recommend is that you eat only two meals a day, 12 hours apart, regardless of whether you’re working at night or day, job, you know that, or like sometimes you switch, you know, you work the day shift and night shift, or you just have days off. So try to eat 12 hours apart to at least try to keep the beat and try to use, try to sleep, like whether you’re working the night or not the night to try to sleep the same times every day.

Dr. Felice Gersh (30:00):

So that basically you’re creating a new time zone. You know, it’s like Suzy time zone, you know, so that, you know, you have some consistency with your life because you know, you can live like on like typically 12 hours from Dubai. So I could live in Dubai time in California where I am. But what that would mean is that I would have to actually like sleep every day during the day and then be up every night, you know, and eat at the same time every day. And basically I’d be like living on the other side of the world, but I’d have to do it seven days a week, but nobody really wants to do that. But if you’re working a night shift, that would actually be better for you if you actually just lived as if you were in a different time zone all the time, it’s a challenge.

Amanda Testa (30:45):

Yeah. So definitely get it. You know what? Eating on a regular timeline with a good breakfast and then making sure you get that light exposure. Is there anything else that is really supportive to get you back on the beat?

Dr. Felice Gersh (30:58):

Oh, absolutely. So when you, when you exercise, exercise is like the miracle medicine that most people don’t use. And there’s actually data showing that when we exercise can have a different impact on our body. So if you want to lose weight, the best time to exercise is in the morning. If you want to build a muscle, then this time to exercise is actually in the afternoon. And if you exercise right before you go to bed, then that will just potentially disrupt your sleep. Now, some people say any exercise is better than no exercise, you know? So you make the best of it. But you know, it’s always nice to know what’s optimal. So optimal is not exercise right before you go to sleep and weight loss, And so many people want to lose weight is exercise in the morning when you exercise. And they’ve actually shown that you increase, increase the diversity of your gut microbiome.

Dr. Felice Gersh (31:52):

So you’re actually doing wonderful things for your gut microbes. And we know that they are like our cousins. So it’s really interesting. We’ve not known about these incredible microbial populations called our microbiomes until relatively recently as well. And they are really part of us. They are synergy with us. And so we want to nurture them. So exercise and eating the right foods. So, you know, we talk about when you eat it’s of course also what you eat. So I’m a plant based person. So because plants are what the microbes love. So when we’re eating, you know, we talk about, cause I’m at OB, you know, when we’re eating for two, right? Well, we’re actually eating for trillions. So we have to feed those trillions of microbes in our gut and they love plants. That’s what they eat. They love having the polyphenols. They do like a dance with them and the fiber.

Dr. Felice Gersh (32:49):

That’s what they ferment. And that’s what we, that’s how they make the short chain fatty acids that actually act as signaling agents to our brain and our liver. They actually have to have receptors. So, I mean, talk about synergy. It turns out that these short chain, fatty acids, these metabolites of fermentation from the microbes in the gut, that there’s actually receptors for them on our vagus nerves. That talk about how we’re together. We’re like one. So when you have butyrate, which is one of the short chain, fatty acids, it actually combined on receptors on the Vegas nerve and it makes our brain happy and it can actually cross into the brain. And actually it’s like brain food because it’s a fatty acid. And it also acts as food for the lining cells of the gut. But it also acts as a signaling agent to the liver.

Dr. Felice Gersh (33:38):

I mean, it’s just amazing how we have to feed those little critters or they cannot do their job, which is to keep us healthy. So we want to really make sure that we eat a high plant-based diet. They talk about primitive type societies, or I’m very many left on this planet. But data, when they looked at the children’s GI tract, they found that the children had enormously different gut microbial populations than children that live in like Western Europe. And they had tremendous diversity numbers and diversity. So in order to create diversity, you have to have a diverse diet. So some people say, I eat vegetables, I eat broccoli. And now I’m not against broccoli. I’m very pro broccoli, but you can’t just eat broccoli and be a really healthy person. So that’s where they come across with eating from the colors of the rainbow, lots of diverse types of plants, I think go to a farmer’s market when you can or go to a store like mothers market, whole foods, where they have diversity of all kinds of plants, and then just buy something from everything and experiment.

Dr. Felice Gersh (34:48):

You know, you can get recipes in the store, you can get recipes online, you can get it. It’s like everyone wants to help you to cook and try these different types of vegetables. And when people and this, I see it all the time, they kind of make these little wiggly things with their nose. When I, you know, say like vegetables, they’ll say I hate vegetables. And it’s like, there are ways to cook vegetables that no one taught you, that you will love them. And worst case scenario cover them with a little coconut oil and put on pumpkin pie spice and then boil them or bake them. And then they’ll just all taste like pumpkin pie to you, you know? So just, you can find ways that you can enjoy vegetables because they are critical, not just for their minerals and their vitamins and their antioxidants, which are so important, but also as food for all of those little critters in there.

Dr. Felice Gersh (35:38):

So we definitely want to make sure we take care of them. And then the other thing is to actually do fast, you know, like more than just so when you don’t eat for part of the day, that technically is fasting, but we actually don’t call that fasting in the, you know, the verbiage that we use, we call that time restricted eating. So when you don’t eat over a 24 hour period, that’s called time restricted eating. When you don’t eat for at least 24 hours, that’s called intermittent fasting. And when you don’t eat for a few days, like four days or five days, that’s called periodic fasting. If you don’t eat for at least, you know, over 10 days, that’s called prolonged fasting. And actually that is not good because then your whole metabolic system changes and your metabolic rate slows. Cause then you’re in basic survival mode, but there’s this amazing sweet spot, like four or five days. If you fast like water fast, don’t eat any food. Then a lot of mechanisms are triggered in the body that are very restorative. You can actually burn liver fat, which is really critical because you cannot be healthy with a fatty liver and you actually increase the production of brain growth factors, brain drives brain growth factors that actually make your brain healthier

Speaker 4 (36:57):

And happier. And they’re doing

Dr. Felice Gersh (36:59):

Now looking at reducing Alzheimer’s and dementia by doing fasting. So it’d be really fascinating when these studies come out, but it also does other amazing things. It causes crappy cells in our bodies to die. I mean, that’s programmed cell suicide. And if you constantly eat, you never stop eating the body. Doesn’t deal with that whole factor of killing off crappy cells. And you want to get rid of crappy cells because they’re the bad cells that do you in. We, we want to like clean house, get rid of the junk cells. And that’s what gets triggered when you do periodic fasting for four or five days. And as well, the good cells in the body get rejuvenated a site from within. We call that autophagy where you actually take them to different cellular components. They go into, I call the recycle bin, it’s the lychzome. And then it recreates from the proteins of the cell and the fats of the cell fatty acids and amino acids.

Dr. Felice Gersh (38:00):

And then they reconstruct new cellular structure. So it’s really like a total cell rehab. And this is amazing. And then once the crappy cells kill themselves, the STEM cells of the cells, they get stimulated. So you end up creating a bigger pool of STEM cells and as well, you actually replace all the crappy cells with beautiful new cells. So it’s like we do the knitting internally, the cells and rejuvenating the organs. So it’s like, it’s amazing. Now here’s the problem to tell my patients that you should, you know, okay, stop eating for four days and just drink water. And I want you to do it like every month for three months in a row. And then I want you to do it four times a year. You get a compliance of about 1%, even though because people love to eat. You know, we evolved in a time, you know, in ancient times when food came and went.

Dr. Felice Gersh (38:55):

So people didn’t fast because they wanted to fast. They just wasn’t food around for sometimes for a few days. And so we evolved into that scenario to be optimally healthy for the environment that we evolved in. But now we have food everywhere we turn and we really love eating. So what the company that I work with, the fasting mimicking company called L Nutra created out of the research of the longevity Institute at USC, a fasting, mimicking diet. And that’s what I do myself. And that’s what I use with my patients because otherwise I, you know, I have quite a theory, but you know, actual success. So what a fasting mimicking diet is that they created food that you eat for five days. And that was not a ton, but it’s very tasty. You get three meals a day that flies under the radar of detection of the nutrient sensors in the brain.

Dr. Felice Gersh (39:49):

So I call it self food. So it’s like the best of all worlds to get to eat, but your body doesn’t know it and thinks you’re fasting. And you also get the benefit of eating. Cause you get the nutrients, you get the pleasure and the benefit of eating and then you get the benefit of fasting. So that’s why it’s so brilliant. And so, and so we have the data that we have on it shows that it does do the things that I mentioned. Like it helps to burn liver fat. It helps to do the autophagy trigger autophagy and STEM cell stimulation and so on. And they’re doing something like 40 studies right now, looking at pretty much everything that you can imagine. So as we stay tuned and we see more data, so, but just based on what we do know now I utilize it all the time because we do know if I know enough that I love it.

Speaker 5 (40:42):

Curious too, is there a specific time of the month that it’s most optimal to do?

Dr. Felice Gersh (40:47):

Well within data that we have is based on some interesting data that was done with NIH funded studies back in the 1990s, is that amazing. There was like this brief, I don’t know what actually made it happen, but there were these studies that were done back in the 1990s on fasting and with women’s cycles and we need to recreate new ones. We need to have many new studies and that’s where we’re heading. But right now, looking at the older data, it would look like if you fast in, during the follicular phase of the menstrual cycle, you were more likely to impact the ovulation. Now what they showed was that if women were very thin, then they didn’t ovulate at all. If women were normal, they opulate it, but their hormone spikes were lower. Okay. So basically I think it’s best if you can avoid doing fasting during the follicular phase.

Dr. Felice Gersh (41:44):

So that would be from the time you get your period until halfway through the menstrual cycle, which is when you ovulate and it would be better to do it during the luteal phase, the second half of the menstrual cycle. And there is actually some data published that when you fast during the luteal phase, that it actually improves heart rate coherence, or what have called heart rate variability, and it lowers the sympathetic and increases the parasympathetic. And what that means is that you’re calmer. You feel better. So I would love to get some studies on fasting and PMs, because I think that it’s going to really show that women who do have problems with mood disorder and so on during the luteal phase. And they have the PMs that by doing fasting during that time, maybe even a small Fast, like two day fast, you know, that it will really help them dramatically to feel better.

Dr. Felice Gersh (42:38):

So it’s, there’s so much interesting material that we have and that we need to acquire more because this just wasn’t on very many people’s radar. If it’s just like a little blip that happened in the 1990s, and then it just all disappeared. And now fortunately it’s coming back. And so we can learn more about how to really apply fasting specifically to women, because I talk about this all the time. Women and men are so different. We have really different immune systems, metabolic systems. We have different hearts and most of the studies have been done on men in everything. So it’s time for us to take the spotlight and, and to really understand, but I do based on the data we do have already, I recommend fasting during the luteal phase. And I think especially for women as they’re transitioning into the menopause years and the early menopause years that incorporating fasting is going to be shown to be so vitally important to maintaining their metabolic homeostasis, sort of keeping their metabolism on track because the hormone fluctuations that occur during the premenopausal transition years are going to be crazy.

Dr. Felice Gersh (43:48):

It’s like being on a hormonal rollercoaster and mood swings and sleep problems and so forth. And I think that there’s a lot of potential by incorporating fasting and time restricted eating and exercise. And of course, one of my favorites is some form of mind, body medicine. I personally love guided imagery, but some people prefer meditation for me. I worked on meditation, but I kept trying to plan my day. You know, it’s like, no, I’m meditating. I’m not planning my day tomorrow. But when I do guided imagery, which is sort of a form of, of entering into a hypnotic state, but or a guided meditation where you listen to a beautiful voice with a beautiful music, the background, and it takes you on a mind journey so that you’re taking yourself into a beautiful visualization, as opposed to trying to empty your mind. Cause I just would fill it with thoughts, you know? So I just said, I’m just going to do the guided imagery. And there’s wonderful data on that. So for people who, who don’t have time to really practice and learn meditation, you can buy, download very easily, very inexpensively, these guided imageries, and you can do them every day and you’ll be amazed by the way, if you do it and you immediately fall asleep, that’s a clue you’re probably sleep deprived. So you should go to sleep earlier that night, but keep, keep listening to your guided imagery.

Amanda Testa (45:13):

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom here today. And I’m curious, is there any question that I didn’t ask that you wished that I would have asked or any last words you’d like to share with everyone?

Dr. Felice Gersh (45:24):

Well, yes. When women get breast cancer in terms of breast cancer, it’s really a sign and we sort of touched on this. I just want to emphasize it, that there’s inflammation in the breast. And this is really a sign of a local inflammation in the breast. And it’s always accompanied by a systemic inflammation. So it means that the whole body is inflamed. And we didn’t touch on like when you have a mammogram and it says you have dense breasts because it’s still the bulk of women who do get breast cancer are post-menopausal unfortunately it’s growing in premenopausal women. And that’s really because of the ubiquitous endocrine disruptors, these chemicals that are altering the way our normal hormones are working. And they’re really toxic. But if we look at the postmenopausal women who get mammograms and then they say, Oh, you have dense breasts and that’s a risk for breast cancer.

Dr. Felice Gersh (46:18):

I’m sure people have heard this, right? You have dense breasts. You have your best for breast cancer. But what does that mean? Why do you have dense breasts? I think this is really an important message. It means you have inflammation in your breasts. Now breasts like many organs in the body made estrogen. So estrogen is made in ovaries. Everybody knows that, but estrogen is made in many organs themselves. That’s how men and children get estrogen. There. Many children are loaded with estrogen, but it’s not circulating. If you get a blood level, it’s going to be very low because it’s made in the organs, in the brain, in the heart, in the blood vessels, in the breast. So breasts make estrogen because estrogen is a modulator of inflammation. It controls inflammation. So when you have an inflammation going on, the body makes more estrogen. If you have a brain trauma, there are actually cells in the brain that will make more estrogen to help reduce inflammation in the brain.

Dr. Felice Gersh (47:18):

It’s amazing, you know, adaptive mechanism of the human body. And if you have inflammation in your breasts, the breasts will make more estrogen trying to control that. But when you, and if you have a breast infection, that’s why you have it. Like if you’re breastfeeding and you get a breast infection, the body wants to control that inflammatory response. So it doesn’t go too, too crazy. And then the women will stop breastfeeding. The baby will die because remember it’s all about survival. These, all of these mechanisms. So the breasts make as makes estrogen to control inflammation. But when you have post-menopausal inflammation, systemic inflammation, you cannot control it with estrogen in the breast. This is too pervasive and ongoing. So you need the breast makes estrogen. So that’s what makes it because estrogen is about growth and proliferation. So you’re growing more of a ductal cells, but the goal is to actually put out and reduce the inflammation.

Dr. Felice Gersh (48:19):

But when you have chronic unrelenting inflammation and then in the breast, and then you have chronic unrelenting production of estrogen in the breast, because estrogen is doing what it’s designed to do. When you have chronic inflammation that can lead to DNA breakage, and then you can get cancer. And estrogen is about nurturing and healing. Okay? Proliferation it’s to help heal and grow. Like you get a cut on your skin. Estrogen actually in the skin helps it to heal. Estrogen creates growth factors and new blood vessels, which is about healing. But now in a breast situation where you now have developed breast cancer, estrogen, we did not evolve to have breast cancer. So estrogen doesn’t recognize that that’s cancer. It just thinks it’s injured tissue and it’s trying to heal it. So it creates new growth, new blood vessels, and it’s actually nurturing breast cancer. But estrogen was doing what it was supposed to do was trying to put out the inflammation.

Dr. Felice Gersh (49:19):

But now everything changed. Everything’s like topsy turvy, cause you get breast cancer. So if you are a woman and you have dense breasts on a mammogram, that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t, I’m not saying you shouldn’t like more surveillance because that’s sort of the standard approach. Do more surveillance, you know, like get more mammograms, get ultrasounds. That’s fine. That’s about early detection. I’m really focused a lot on prevention. Okay? So that’s a sign. You have inflammation in your breasts. You have inflammation in your whole body. It’s not just in your breast. You’re not like a breastfeeding mom. And you have a breast infection because of breastfeeding. You have inflammation everywhere in your body. So you need to take action, not stop doing surveillance, but starting taking positive steps to lower your inflammation and lower your risk of breast cancer. By doing all the things that we talked about by getting on the beat, by eating the right foods, by getting enough sleep, by getting light into your eyes, by having meditation, working on stress, you can reduce your risk of breast cancer. Not just try to find it early because I’m not, I’m not against finding it early, but I want to not have women go through that in the first place. So take charge. When you have dense breasts, that’s a big red flag that you are an inflamed woman and take all the steps to lower your state of inflammation, lower your risk of breast cancer, lower your risk of cardiovascular disease of dementia. All those things go together. It’s one body. And fortunately it’s one approach to getting optimally healthy.

Amanda Testa (50:57):

That is such great wisdom. Thank you so much. And I appreciate you being here today and for sharing. And I’m curious if anyone wants to learn more about you and connect with you, what’s the best way for them to do that?

Dr. Felice Gersh (51:09):

Well, I am a, what I call an old fashioned doctor, I own brick and mortar practice in Irvine, California called the Integrative Medical Group of Irvine. And my website is https://integrativemgi.com And I want everyone to follow me on Instagram because I’m just getting going. I’ve not been like a social media doctor, like a regular, you know, hard working doctor, but I’m getting going with my Instagram. And my Instagram has, my name is D R period Felice Gersh. So it’s dr. Period Felice Gersh. And I want everyone to follow me on Instagram because I’m going to really post really good stuff and I need to have help because I’m just, like I said, brand new into the social media world.

Amanda Testa (51:50):

Beautiful. We’ll all follow you. And I’ll make sure to add that in the comments and thanks so much. Yes. Thank you so much, Dr. Gersh, it’s been a pleasure having you here today. Thank you so much for listening to the find your feminine fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me@amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook in the group Find your feminine fire group. And if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.