This week I'm talking with my friend, colleague, and client Lea Bett, founder of the Life Work Lab on how to feel supported when life feels scary, how to use our bodies as a tool to metabolize the emotions we are feeling, and what it is really like to work with a sex coach. 

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

I was so grateful to connect with Lea and dive more deeply into some topics that are heaving on our hearts right now.  Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!

Find out more about Lea and connect with here HERE.

Connect with Amanda and schedule a confidential heart to heart HERE.

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex love and relationship coach. And in this podcast, my guests and I talk Sex, Love and Relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Today I am thrilled to be talking with my dear friend, and founder of The Life Work Lab, Lea Bett. Welcome Lea!Thank you so much for being here.

Lea Bett (00:31):

Thank you for having me. This is exciting

Amanda Testa (00:34):

And we are just going to dive in and talk about whatever you know, is really alive around what it actually looks like to work with a sex and relationship coach or any questions people may have. And so, yeah, so we're just going to dive on in and again, Lea, thank you so much for being here. I always just value you so much. And I really think one of the things that I appreciate about you is just how you are so supportive of spirited leaders in helping them design, authentic life work and how you know, you've helped me so much too, and just my branding and clarity. So thank you for that.

Lea Bett (01:16):

Oh, thank you. That's nice to hear. I think we have this in common that we both all about empowering women and, and so yeah, at the bottom, the bottom line, that's what I am all about empowering women in the world people who identity empowering the feminine really, I should say.

Amanda Testa (01:36):

Yeah. And I know one thing too is also, you know, a big part of what you practice and teach is around movement and that as well, like your conscious dance and meditation. And so, you know, just having that similar understanding of, of the important parts of embodiment and doing the work as well.

Lea Bett (01:54):

Yeah. I, I feel like my body of work it's constantly, like, I think I know what it is, but it's actually something else. And so like the dramatics piece, I am obsessed with embodiment and somatics and it's not something I'm pursuing like in a linear way. I just can't get enough of it. I need it. I'm eating it up, diving in it. Yeah. That's becoming the biggest piece of my work right now. And maybe specifically too, I think we're all in an interesting year with so many challenges, so many massive, massive collective and personal challenges. So we all need so much more care. So I mean, like in my embodiment work like probably literally four times as much as I used to be, which was always a daily practice. So it's an important tool, important resource. And I love that. So that is like, I love the way you lead and teach embodiment work. Oh gosh, it's so delicious. And you have such an arsenal. I feel like you're, I don't know, maybe well-trained and just have this whole, this whole body of tools. And then I feel like you have a really unique way of bringing it all together. Like I, I, my impression is that you have studied and learned all these practices, but you've also been teaching enough to find your own way in it, which is a really wonderful experience on the other end.

Amanda Testa (03:31):

Well, thank you very much for that reflection. I do. You know, I do feel like that embodiment piece is a big part, the somatic piece, because that's one of the reasons why I was so attracted to this work in the first place, because I remember for myself part of the work that I did that kind of got me on this path as a sex and relationship coaches, many of you have heard my story before, but there's a specific time in working with my mentor, Layla Martin. And she had a course, it was around working with the Jade egg. And I thought, well, you know, it was all around spicing things up in the bedroom, this, that, and the other, I was like that can't hurt. And after doing that course, what I realized it was yes, partly about spicing things up in the bedroom, but really a lot about connecting to yourself deeply.

Amanda Testa (04:11):

And, you know, just the somatic work in doing the practices released so much residual shame and trauma. And it was amazing. I was just, my mind was blown. And so I thought there's something to this, you know? And then the more I've studied learned about it really, it makes so much sense, right? Because so much we hold onto is stored in our bodies and we're often so unaware of it, it's on such a subconscious level. And so really just giving your body gentle opportunities to release that, to, you know, let things move through, let the stress stress cycles complete that are frozen sometimes, over time , and kind of give those a gentle opportunity to release. So you can just free up so much energy and life force and open up to more of what you want to bring into those spots. Right?

Lea Bett (04:58):

Yeah. My, my general sense of the body in that, I think you've spoken about cellular consciousness before. I'm not quite sure I get my information so many directions, but my general sense is that our bodies are so beautifully designed and so innately intelligent and, and by nature, very healthy and just thriving, but then there's so many influences. Culturally, I think collectively, personally from our experience, our more intimate experiences, familiar experiences, community experiences. And it's my sense is that we, because of those viewpoints, we pinch off our own natural thriving and, and then the embodiment work is just, like, getting back into that healthy, natural way of being, and kind of just gently unfolding the, the layers of resistance or trauma that block that. Yeah. And it's, it's powerful. It's interesting that you said the way you, you talked about your journey that you said, you know, your teacher was offering a Jade Egg workshop and you were just like like spicing things up in the bedroom that can't hurt.

Lea Bett (06:22):

That's funny because I feel like that's how I ended up in, your work, and doing some work with you. Cause it's like, if you asked me if I want a sex love relationship coach, like this has changed a little bit, but in general, I've, I've kind of felt like, well, that's not really my priority. And, and that is generally goes pretty well for me. Although as I get more and more deeply into it, it's like, there's just tremendous depth to dive deeper into. But my draw to your work in the beginning had more to do with business, because it was like I was already really drawn to, and in the work of empowering the feminine and feminine presence. And I just, you know, we were already connected. We met as real life book club leaders and, and you know, you were, you were beginning this work and just really loving it and just really beginning to radiate.

Lea Bett (07:21):

And so in the beginning it was just like, I just, I want to be more, feel more embodied and to have kind of a more magnetic presence for my business is what I saw. And this is one of those things where it's like, I, I think I know what my work is about, or I think I know what I'm pursuing, but it's really something else. And yeah. And so this, this, this work that I have done with you has been so much more than I could have fathomed. And, and actually I think I'm somewhere in the middle of it or I don't, I don't know. There's probably not really a middle, I think it's bottomless, but you know, it's like, I'm getting the sense that there's just so much more than I could have ever fathomed, not knowing much about it.

Amanda Testa (08:05):

And I'm curious, in what ways have you noticed, you know, what, what things have you noticed perhaps, you know, you mentioned you started out, well, I wanted to become more embodied, or kind of feel that feminine presence, more in your business and be able to bring that, but I'm wondering how it showed up for you by chance in your business or maybe elsewhere

Lea Bett (08:23):

Yeah, well, I think sort of by nature and by culture, I have kind of a strong mental orientation, very intellectually oriented. And, and so I think I did like a six week course of you in the beginning. And what I remember is I remember doing like a five senses experience and, you know, just getting out of the head and into the five senses. And I remember eating, eating strawberries in a very present way and smelling them and feeling them and tasting them and everything. And it was just like a heightened consciousness. Yeah. And there's something about that quality of presence that's just different. And it's, it's like, I think the, the brain and the intellect are limited in a way in terms of intelligence, even, you know, so it's sort of like opened up this way of drawing on the whole being. And I also think it's a way of bypassing, if some of our limitations come from the way we think about our bodies, for example, ourselves getting out of the head and into the body, it's sort of like jumping over a fence or something, and then being right in the field, kind of on the other side, looking at it,

Amanda Testa (09:51):

That's so true. And I noticed that in myself too, cause even today I had a session with one of my coaches and it was amazing because I realized when I get in these spaces of being in my head often, it's like this hyper aroused state, like all the questions and all the things, and I'm worried about this and I have to do that and what's the right decision and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then taking that time to really like drop in notice, okay, what's coming up for you around this and digging in deeper beneath that. Like, what is that pain in your gut telling you what is there what's beneath that and like giving yourself the opportunity to kind of release and connect to these different parts of you who maybe you've not paid attention to, or maybe they just need to express something.

Amanda Testa (10:32):

And then, you know, having a way to allow that part of you to speak and be heard, but also at the same time dropping in feeling resourced, like really getting into your body. And afterwards it's like night and day. So all that mind, chatter shuts down, you're grounded. You feel centered, you feel connected to the resourceful, creative part of you that can make informed decisions from a place of, you know, responding versus reacting. I know I say that a lot, but it's so true because so often we are just running around like AHHH or just not taking that time to be present.

Lea Bett (11:11):

Yeah. It's a total reversal coming from your own connection with yourself and a grounded intention. And I also, I have a feeling like you, I think you call it resourcing. I'm like having this visual right now. It's literally like filling up with energy. If, if all of our activities, intellectual and physical activities require the use of our energy, I feel like the, the kinds of resourcing that you do fills us up. It's literally like gaining and gathering energy.

Amanda Testa (11:48):

And I will say too, you know, just to reflect back to you, appreciating the ability you have to tap into things that support you more often than usual, especially in times like these. So you mentioned, you know, something was a daily practice and now you've quadrupled the amount of times you do it, which is kind of what needs to happen when things are like they are now. And so it's finding those things that help you feel resourced. So that's things that help you feel stable, supported, connected to something that feels like it can hold you. So whether that's spiritual, whether that's an animal, whether that's an archetype, whether that's a scene from nature, something that you can connect to and feel supported. And oftentimes it does need to be bigger than us because I think we try to hold onto so much ourselves. And one of my other mentors, Rachael Maddox, who I adore talks about how, you know, we spend a lot of time trying to solve "we" problems with "me" solutions. So for example, a lot of the collective traumas that were in a lot of the things that are going on in our culture and our world are not going to be solved by one person. But yes, the more we do the work on ourselves and the more resourced we are, the more we can come together to solve the "we" problems.

Lea Bett (13:01):

Yeah. I just heard someone Jack Kornfield, I think is his name he runs spirit rock out here in California. And he was saying, we can't fix the whole garden. We can't tend to the whole garden, but we can tend to our own plot. And that really, that really resonated for me because to, to try to tend to the whole garden by ourselves is overwhelming. But yeah, I like this. I like the idea of tending to our own plot. And then I like your extension of that with if we are tending to our own plot and we're connected with other people who are, that we really can create a lot of health and beauty together.

Amanda Testa (13:42):

And if you think about that, like the web of everyone's connectivity, obviously there's going to be people that have more to give and people that need to be able to rest. And those that have more ability to give can step up and kind of support the ones who can have an opportunity to rest. So I feel like that too. It's like, when you think about the, we, it feels so much more supportive, right? To think that we're all in this together, which we are, and that we can all do our part, even if it's just taking care of yourself. Right. I think taking care of your own plot, like you said, I love it.

Lea Bett (14:18):

Yeah. And I think I have, I know for myself, my capacity to give, or my need to receive is not static. It's kind of ebbing and flowing. And so in that sense, if we're in community, when I am, you know, maybe more depleted, I can fill up within community and somebody else maybe could, could be doing some giving to the larger community, you know? And then at times I'm full I'm giving and that person is, is resting and resourcing. I was curious to ask you, because I, you know, this, this is such an intense time. And for me, I I'm experiencing like really kind of ups and downs and like the like a whole cycle. I know how to take care of myself and bring myself back, but I had kind of distinctive points. I do get overwhelmed. And then it's like, so I'm just curious, because, you know, with your practices and resources, I'm curious if you're holding yourself steady or what could you just kind of what your experience is in all of this and how you are staying centered regardless. It's like being in the eye of the storm, kind of like in the I'm like, okay, I've got it. And then I'm like, Whoa, flying. I'm like being blown back to the outside. Right.

Amanda Testa (15:49):

Well, I mean, I think part of it is that yes, with all the chaos in the world right now, it's bound to have those moments where you're going to be overwhelmed or that you need to sleep more, or that you need to just curl up in a ball and watch Netflix for a day or whatever it is, those things are bound to happen. And I think part of it is just allowing yourself to do what you need. Like as much as you can give yourself minutes of rest, even if you have two minutes, can you take that two minutes and just intend that it's going to feel like an eternity because sometimes two minutes can feel quite luxurious and depending too, on what you have going on. Sometimes it's easier than others to find time to rest and rejuvenate. I know it's quite a privilege to be able to do that.

Amanda Testa (16:33):

So honestly, like, I think just understanding that it's normal, especially in times like these, with all the, all the chaos in the world and the natural fires and all the things and the political climate and, you know, just everything it's going to be triggering. It's going to bring up all the things. And so that's to be expected. And I think that's why it's been really hard, especially for anyone that has a history of trauma or anything like that, because it's just kind of poking those wounds. So I think what for me has been helpful and what I recommend for my clients is we really spend a lot of time with the resourcing, which I know sometimes can seem like, Ugh, but it's so important because the more that you're meeting your base needs and really doing them, like you say, four times more than necessary, that's what you really need to do.

Amanda Testa (17:22):

You need to write a list of all the things and do them way more and realize like, you know what, sometimes it's just going to feel you have to be okay with just kind of feeling not okay. Sometimes knowing that you're going to move through it. And for me, the body-based practices are what bring me back to myself where I can find like a breath and find that connection. And even just for a moment, what also is helping me is limiting my exposure to social media, the news, cause I can find myself going like down the doom scrolling rabbit hole. So it's like really putting a timer on and being on there for 20 minutes and being done. And I did an experiment the other weekend where I was like, I'm not going to be on my phone all weekend. And I realized, because I have definitely found myself at the pandemic and everything going down that rabbit hole of becoming addicted to my phone.

Amanda Testa (18:13):

And so it was a really great thing for me to do. And you know, every time I went to pick up my phone, I had a journal and a pen and I would just write down what I was experiencing in that moment. Like, what do I see ? What am I noticing? What am I feeling? And I just realized how many beautiful moments in life that I was tuning into. And I think there's something about that presence and like feeling gratitude for the moment that we're in, can really help to as well, you know, kind of ease that sense of overwhelm, and also things like music, things like being in nature, things like connecting to something bigger than we are, can feel very comforting.

Lea Bett (18:50):

Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the reliefs I find in all of this is like, this is really much larger than any one of us can fathom. And so just kind of giving it to God or to the universe or whatever, you know, whatever beliefs work for you, just giving it to the bigger, the bigger picture, you know, and releasing the need for control. And that, that helps me because when I find myself trying to manage something that big, it is absolutely depleting. Yeah. I love your reminder about managing information intake and yeah. That's, I feel like that's the biggie right now. It's October this month. I just, it's always ugly in an election year. And I'd say it's like, everything's a hundred times worse this year, you know? So I think that's a great reminder right now, just really being intentional. And I just, somebody just posted some little reminder of this, but I was already thinking along these lines that we, we don't have a lot of control over what's happening. We, you know, we have control over some things in our world, but we don't have control over the big picture, but we have control over how we engage with it, how we respond to it and what we do with it.

Amanda Testa (20:13):

Yeah. And sometimes it can feel good to take action about the things that are important to you, like texting people to vote or, you know, even just offering help. It doesn't have to be like a big dramatic thing. Like if you were at the store and you see someone needs help, like help the person who needs help getting something off the top shelf, or, you know, if you see someone on the side of a road, like what can you offer them? I know everybody has their own opinions about that, but I think it's like when you see someone that needs help, how can you offer it? Or how can you ask people what they need and see how you can support others when you have the capacity, because that also helps you to feel good. And so maybe if there's friends that you can think about that, you're like, maybe I need to reach out to this person and just see how they're doing. Or maybe you, I want to write a thank you note to some people that I love, or maybe I want to, you know, call a loved one or a family member, or take a walk and call a friend or all those kind of things to bring in connection to when you're feeling that way can help.

Lea Bett (21:08):

Yeah. And I really do think that one settled person who has metabolized everything that's going on, everything that we've ingested makes a huge difference to every single thing that we touch. And my personal experience is, like I said, I'm, I'm kind of up and down. But what I notice is when I, when something new has been triggered a turn of events or some specific experience, I, my first response is like a freeze response I noticed. And that you've got a great page of resources on your website that you put together really when I think we were early in COVID and that's an amazing, amazing resource. I've shared that with a lot of people, because in that point, when we're we're stuck or overwhelmed, that's a great wealth of tools for, for getting through that, getting through that, I'm thinking of it as metabolizing. And so my experience over and over again is I get overwhelmed and I kind of, I feel myself freezing and then it takes a lot of, for me, there's a lot of movement where a lot of somatic processing to, to process and to metabolize the, what what's feeling overwhelmed.

Lea Bett (22:28):

And then I feel activated again. So let's say it's social justice and you know, I'm observing what's going on and it's totally overwhelming. And, and, and just horrifying. And then I go through a process, I'll listen to music for me. I listen to music that hits whatever the spot is. There's a lot of great music that touches on social justice. So getting right in there and like working, moving with the feelings and working through them and it takes a lot, it takes a lot. It's kind of crazy. Then I feel activated. Then after I metabolize it, it's like, I can take, I have kind of an insight. I can take this action and that action. And that's what I have capacity for. And that will make a difference. But my first response is I'm frozen and overwhelmed. And then it takes a lot of, a lot of processing to, to metabolize and become activated. Right.

Amanda Testa (23:23):

And that's how so many of our systems are like, will feel like totally frozen and hypo and unable to like move forward. And in those moments, then maybe there's something that clicks us in there. We're like, ah, but I got to do all the things and I don't know where to begin in lalalalala. And it's like, sometimes you can occilate between the two. So it's, again, really when you have like, you, you have connected to some things that help you, like taking that music and transmuting yourself through the experience, taking that, moving it through your body and then feeling like you're digesting it so that you can do something different with energy. It's a different quality of energy afterwards, perhaps is a big. And sometimes too, if you feel in that frozen state, like what is maybe the smallest doable thing that you can do to support yourself in that moment? Maybe what is one maybe part of you wants to stay frozen, but maybe there's like 10% of you that wants to move towards something, whatever that is a walk,a water, calling a friend, or just like taking a nap, whatever it could be.

Lea Bett (24:23):

I always love your reminders of keeping it simple, you know, the taking two minutes to, to resource or, you know, appreciating the, just really savoring your time in the shower or the bath or, or the examples you were just mentioning, because that makes it so much more accessible than thinking. I've got to find four hours every day. That's what I'm feeling like. I need like four hours everyday right now.

Amanda Testa (24:52):

I mean, and it is so connected to our sexuality because we can't often access those levels of pleasure if we're in a state of survival. And so whatever that looks like, you know, you have to be able to resource yourself and feel good to get into a state of pleasure often. And so it all builds on one another. Right? And so, like you mentioned earlier, we do have this natural blueprint of health and original essence within us. This part of us that is totally perfect as it is and our society or culture, whatever dampens that, or hurts that, but that's always still there. And that is so alive in people. And that's what I love to see too. And in clients is like having that blueprint come out to play more often and then become more empowered to come out. And then it's, it's so amazing to see how that blossoming happens.

Amanda Testa (25:43):

It's like going from feeling overwhelmed or not taking care of yourself or feeling run down by family and responsibilities or feeling uncomfortable saying no, and finding yourself too much on your plate to then starting to like, okay, what are these doable steps I can take? And then starting to take those, and then you build up a little more, you know, you're building up a little more resilience and a liveliness and that continues to build, and then you start to blossom more and more. So you are in a more expanded state more often. And that is where you can tap into more joy and more pleasure more often. And yes, you'll still have your moments, but you have better tools. So things that maybe would knock you down for weeks will maybe take a day or, you know, you, there's just such more capacity and resilience that you build in your system.

Lea Bett (26:30):

Yeah. I'm thinking I want to go in two different directions. So first I want to, I actually want to speak about grief for a minute and then I want, I want to ask you to talk about, about sensual and sexual energy because that's beyond my expertise, but I that's what I'm finding. I that's like a resource that I feel is bigger than I can fathom. I am just kind of breaking ground or something with the potential there. And and yeah, I want to talk about that and talk a little bit about the Jade Egg practice. Well, while I have you here, but for some reason I wanted to talk first about grief because I'm thinking about everyone is going through so much right now. Everyone's and I just, I don't know, like it takes, it's hard to show up for what's going on right now.

Lea Bett (27:24):

So my, like when I feel frozen, there's, you know, a whole variety of things that can be underneath that, but sometimes it's really hard to just show up for, my movement practice, because what I'm actually feeling is so painful. And yesterday, for example, like I, I have a little dance now in the backyard and I sat on my mat. I put my earphones in, I didn't even put the music on yet. And I just started crying and it was gut wrenching cry. It was like a brutal cry. And I mentioning this because I, I just, I really feel for, I just feel like it takes so much courage to show up and feel the things we're feeling. So I just, I just kind of wanted to acknowledge that it's not all about that. The, the pleasure sometimes is underneath the pain, I guess I want to say, because my experience over and over again is if I show up and I am so it's like for me, I, I feel that in my body and I'll move into it. I'll I, and in my day to day life, I want to move away from it. I want to avoid it, but in my practice, I'll move into it and, and just keep feeling it and moving through it. And it's, it's hard. But then underneath that, when I release that, it's like, it clears, it clears me out. And then the joy, the capacity for joy is underneath that. For some reason, I just wanted to mention that, but it's not all, you know, or yeah,

Amanda Testa (28:58):

No. And I think that is the thing too, is like, you start to feel more feeling fully all your emotions because when we're kind of numbing, where we don't want to go there, which is of course very common because you know, it is hard to feel the feels and we often don't want to, and there's not a place in our culture to do that and be celebrated. And so, you know, I think it's creating that time and space regularly to be with what's there and to wail, if you need to wail and to grieve and to let it fully just get to the root of you and let it out. Because once you do, usually there's so much underneath that, like you mentioned, so maybe there's layers that you're going to excavate through, but you can do it a way that feels gentle and doable. And then the more you do it, the more you're going to excavate more and more, so you can get down to like, Oh yes, this is what has beneath that. And all those things and feeling the feels is part of it. You've got to like sometimes just grieve. Yes. For sure. I'm totally with you there. And it makes everything you're experiencing more rich. So you can find like the beauty in all the parts of it, even the painful, horrific parts, there's beauty there, but there's more like there's just presence with it, allowing it to be.

Lea Bett (30:14):

Yeah. And I guess as a culture, I think we learn, well, I know I come from probably trying to numb. There's a million ways you can numb those feelings and sometimes that's okay and keeps us safe, but I guess the reward is in letting yourself feel everything. Cause you get that, that whole range of emotion. Yeah. So, yeah. So let's talk more about the the opposite end of that. Or, or I don't know, maybe there's a whole gamut with, with Jade egg, but I'd love to talk more about that. I have. I remember, so I remember I did like a program with you and then Jade egg was like the next level. And I felt pretty, I guess, maybe uncomfortable with, especially in group or something like that. Like I just had a lot of reluctance, like, so it took me awhile to like learn a little bit more, a little bit more than like, okay, I'm gonna, I, I do want this. I am going to step in. And, and so I'm curious, like, I don't even know what my questions are here. I feel like it's this giant realm of mystery. I don't know.

Amanda Testa (31:27):

So yeah. You know, I think specifically around the Jade egg, I know you mentioned around like sexual energy and working with that and how it all comes together. And I think the theory of the practice is based in the Taoist philosophy, where if you're familiar at all with Chinese medicine, you know, our life force energy is created in our sexual organs, in our kidneys. And that's kind of what that's, what's used to fuel our body. And so the more open our energy centers are, the more open our body is the more that is going to flow freely through our system. And the more health we'll enjoy. And so what I love about the Jade egg is its specific practice where I think I've talked about this before. So many of you may be familiar, but basically it's using an egg that's typically made of Jade.

Amanda Testa (32:13):

And you use it like, for example, if you think about yoga, what yoga is to stretching. I like to think about what the Jade Egg ii for pelvic floor floor work, because it's much deeper than that. There's a sacred reverence to it. And so baically you use it internally. So you use it inside the vagina and you would do certain exercises with it, similar to how you might use a pelvic floor weight, but yet there's a lot more depth to the practices, not just like squeeze and release, it's definitely tapping into different, different, deeper layers of your energetic self and your sexual self. And yes, there is such opportunity for all kinds of emotions to flow during a Jade egg practice. So as you mentioned, pleasure is a piece of it, but it can also be a practice where you can use it to tune into what you need and how to give that to yourself, right?

Amanda Testa (33:03):

So maybe you need just nourishment. Maybe you need, you know, some fun sexual pleasure. Maybe you need to release. Maybe you need to tap into your inner confidence and power. So that's what I love about the practice, because there's so many different ways you can do it to tap into different aspects of yourself. And yet you're using it in a way that's tapping into our sexual creative power, right? Our sexual energy is such a creative force. And so when you mix that with anything else, it's like quadrupling the effectiveness 10, X-ing the effectiveness, if you will. Right.

Lea Bett (33:36):

I like how you pair your day-to-day work with the other types of resourcing that you do. It's a really, really powerful mixture I'm experiencing.

Amanda Testa (33:48):

Yeah. I mean, cause it is true. I mean, you, you can't just like stick it in and hope for a miracle there's specific practices around it. So you can, but it's probably not going to get you very far.

Lea Bett (34:01):

Yeah. I remember in the beginning I was kind of like, okay, I've got the basics, like I'm just gonna do this and then I've done some more in-depth practices with you and I'm like, Oh, Oh, okay.

Amanda Testa (34:14):

I guess I would love to ask you, you know, for people maybe listening and they're like, that sounds weird. Or I don't know. What would you say to them about the practice?

Lea Bett (34:24):

That's a good question. Let's see. I mean, I, I wasn't opposed to the practice, but for me personally, it's I guess I feel somehow sensuality is a bit private for me. I don't know if that's a value or a condition. So, so there's something about learning those practices in a group that I was like, I didn't know what to expect. I was like, you know, are we all going to be doing this together? I just didn't know what to expect. And I guess it can be whatever you want it to be. I'm sure it could be anything and everything, but I feel, I guess what I would say is with you, at least you get to step in, in whatever way feels safe for you and you get to do it at whatever pace feels comfortable. And so like it's all in your charge, I guess is what I want to say.

Lea Bett (35:21):

And yeah, and for me, there's just so much more there than I could have possibly fathomed so much more empowerment. And I'm just, I don't know where I am in the process, but like, you know, sometimes when the practices are more advanced when your talking about dan tiens,, I don't even know if I'm saying it right. I don't really know. I don't really have the background. So I like just trying to figure out what's going on, you know, but I'm starting to experience some of that. And so it just, it feels really, really powerful and really, really healing. Yeah. So it's just, I guess it would just be releasing your sensual energy in whatever way feels safe and wanted, which is maybe a really big deal, you know, in that area.

Amanda Testa (36:13):

That is a big part of it is being able to be in charge of your experience. Like no one should ever be pushing you. You don't even need to use the egg. You don't even need to touch your body. You can just have an energetic experience if you need, but it's like tuning into what feels doable and honoring your own. Yes and no, because that's something is for many women that's hard to discern or maybe we've said no, when we, when we, or yes. When we really meant no are all the things. So it's kind of like relearning to build that trust with yourself and your body and opening up in a way that feels doable and building that trust with yourself and your body and how that expands, the more you do the practice and then just how you can tap into these deeper States of connection and pleasure and just be an all of what your body is capable of.

Lea Bett (36:59):

Yeah. Yeah. I want to say that there's like this real reservoir of self-love in this body of work as well. I've heard you say this before and I'm experiencing this where just having this gorgeous, intimate relationship that I felt it's like, I don't know, like I can take a handful of my, my meatier person and just like, I love it. You know? And that's, that's really different from what our culture teaches us about our body as women in particular. But I know there's a variety of that from men as well,

Amanda Testa (37:34):

But I appreciate how you said that. Cause I too, it's such a change in how I've I feel about my body. And I think I've mentioned this recently I've put on 10 pounds since COVID, but yet I am just doesn't bother me one bit. I mean, for health reasons, yes. It's probably not the best, but you know what? I honestly feel so good in my body and I don't judge it and I don't think badly of it. I mean, I don't even, I used to beat myself up so much in so many women. I know struggle with like looking in the mirror and seeing all the things they hate about themselves or noticing their double chin or their wrinkles or their stretch marks or their curves or whatever it may be. And really, I think part of this big part of this practice is reclaiming yourself for yourself. It's like you are bearing yourself to yourself. You're claiming yourself for yourself. This is only for you and how empowering that is. Like how really radically life-changing that is.

Lea Bett (38:22):

Yeah. I think the real potential in there is just like loving ourselves unconditionally. And I think I'm finding too, nobody can love you in a way you don't love yourself. I, to some degree, I mean, I, I love being like seeing myself through my partner's eyes, you know, and that sort of thing, but I feel like ultimately loving ourselves unconditionally is what really sets that dynamic in motion outside of ourselves as well. I mean, we all know women who just, you know, they, they inhabit their bodies completely and they're, they're just gorgeous, you know, but it's not not that pseudo, you know, contrived image that we see in the media. That's not the real deal,

Amanda Testa (39:12):

Right? Yes. I do believe that truth, that loving ourselves unconditionally. And that does spill out into other areas because once you have that wholeness within yourself, then it's so much easier to notice where else you can offer that to others or to have more appreciation empathy for other situations or whatever it may be.

Lea Bett (39:35):

Yeah. And I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I sort of feel like all self-development and maybe all of life experiences, it's all a process. So you don't, you don't arrive. And then, you know, if the mountain tops and sing songs or something, it's like, you just keep your, keep your own pace and you just keep going wherever you want to go.

Amanda Testa (40:01):

I always like to say that that sexuality is the missing piece and personal growth and development. It's kind of the final frontier. So many are afraid to go there. But I tell you, if you, if you go there, you're going to save many years off your journey because there's so much, we hold in our sexual center so much is there. And so kind of just giving yourself the opportunity to do the work. And it, I think a lot of people think, well, what is this? Is it like you're watching people have sex? Or what is it it's not like that at all. It's really, it's about connecting to yourself and like creating the things that support you in integrating all the pieces that, that aren't in alignment and really learning how to a weekend, the pleasure potential in yourself and you know, there's many layers to it. So it's, it's a simple process yet. It's a deep process, right?

Lea Bett (40:47):

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's awakened in me. Like when I do so much bodywork movement practices, one of my, you know, parts of my, my body of work. But but I, but it's the reason it is, is because my body's so sensitive. So like I sort of have to show up for it and move through things. And so bringing that back to Jade egg, I feel like this has awakened a sensitivity of like the energy in that realm and how it's, I don't know if, how it's feeling, but I can kind of like now I didn't, I don't think I was aware of this before, but I can feel it when it's like bunched up. And I don't think I had that sensitive. I don't think I was even aware of that before. Right? Yeah. Big ellipsis on the whole Jade egg experience and conversation. I I'm so thankful to have been introduced to that by you. And I think I've heard you have, I heard you say that's your favorite practice? And my, I feel like that's like kind of your number one resource. I'm not sure if I've got that right.

Amanda Testa (42:02):

It is my favorite. And even if I don't actually like, even touch my body or do anything, it's just like, I can still do the practice energetically and it feels so good. I really just, it's one of my favorite things because of the difference I found in my own body and in my clients, like just seeing the change that happens. I feel like it when used properly can be such a powerful tool. Yeah. So yeah. Iloved talkint with you about it.

Lea Bett (42:29):

Thank you. Yeah, my pleasure. This is super fun. Okay. I have one more question and it's kind of just funny sends on a funny note. I was, so you have such a, when you do do your podcasts, you have such a sultry, sexy voice. And so here's my funny question. Do they teach you that in your training?

Amanda Testa (42:54):

I actually, I think it's just my voice, but it is funny. Cause I noticed when I am dropped in or when I teach my voice is often a lot lower and that's just part of being like low in my body, I think. And I notice it too, because when I get more uptight or stressed out, then I can be like, my voice gets higher. But I remember when I was at camp and like third grade, one of my counselors was like, Oh, your voice, you need to be on the radio back in the day.

Lea Bett (43:24):

Yeah. That's so funny. Yeah. It's very, it's like soothing and sexy. It's like perfect for your whole body of work.

Amanda Testa (43:33):

Thank you. Yay. Well, this has been such a fun, fun conversation, Leah, thank you so much for coming back.

Lea Bett (43:41):

Yeah. Thank you for inviting me, it is always a treat to be with you.

Amanda Testa (43:48):

Yes. So I will make sure to post in the comments how you can connect with Lea. If you're curious more about the work lab and I'll also share how you can connect with me, if you're curious more of exploring sexuality work or working with the Jade egg or anything along those lines. So everyone have a beautiful week and we will talk to you soon. Thank you.

New Speaker (44:12):

Thank you so much for listening to the find your feminine fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me@amandatestthe.com slash activate, and we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook and the group find your feminine fire group. And if you've enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

"How do we unlearn the fear and shame around our sexuality in order to change the way we connect to our bodies, our intimate partners to the world and our relationship with our spiritual self? How does our relationship to the erotic or lack thereof support or impede our ability to thrive?"

These are the questions posed by my amazing guest today,Rashida KhanBey Miller, and she invites these with her work and her practice. 

Tune in as we discuss how to invite Pleasure, Rest and Radiance is the messiness of life.  

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

This week I'm thrilled to be talking with Rashida KhanBey Miller (Rashi/she/her) Artist, Educator, Founder of The Messy Movement Lab, Co-Host of Podcast Queer & Married, Co-Owner of The Lingerie Boutique The Temptress' Boudoir, and Executive Producer and Co-Star of Film Series "Sex Is A God Thing". Born and raised in Chicago, IL,

Rashi fell in love with dance at a very young age studying Ballet, Jazz, Modern, Lyrical, and Sacred Dance spanning over 20+ years. She went on to receive her bachelor's degree in Theatre from The University of Illinois at Chicago to launching her professional career teaching, speaking and uplifting feminine spectrum people in healing through the storytelling of movement in live classes across the U.S. and expanding into a global audience through online education.

Over the last decade, Rashi has inspired people worldwide to talk about their relationship to self-love, sensuality, and healing trauma through dance and movement as an integral part of their spiritual recovery and thriving. Rashi's work has been featured on Gene Siskel Film Center, Sisters in Cinema, OpenTV, AfroPunk, ForHarriet, Unfit Christian, The Sexually Liberated Woman Podcast, Elephant Journal, BlackDoctors.org, ClexaCon Film Festival, The Black Femme Supremacy Film Festival, and more. Rashi currently resides in The Pacific Northwest spending her day's co-creating in business and life with her Spouse, Ajani Miller (he/they).

She created the Messy Movement Lab as a playground for healing our relationship to our bodies through dance + movement. This class provides a safe sanctuary for Feminine Spectrum people, to be able to unpack the relationship we've been conditioned to have to ourselves so that we can embody confidence, sovereignty, and agency in our lives. Ultimately, this studio is designed to teach you how to welcome relaxation and how to tend to tired, physical and spiritual, muscles. As we pour back into ourselves, we refill our tanks and reinvigorate our lives with a sense of connection, purpose, and joy.  

Learn more and join the lab HERE.

Click here for her training on How To Fit Self Care Into The Messy Parts Of Life.

Rashi has gifted a 15 minute practice for you to try HERE.

Follow her on Insta HERE.

Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire Podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a Sex Love and Relationship Coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk Sex, Love. And Relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Hello everyone. And welcome. How do we unlearn the fear and shame around our sexuality in order to change the way we connect to our bodies, our intimate partners to the world and our relationship with our spiritual self. How does our relationship to the erotic or lack thereof support or impede our ability to thrive? These are the questions from my amazing guests today Rashida KhanBey Miller, and she invites these with her work and her practice. Rashi is an artist, educator, founder of The Messy Movement lab, co-host of the podcast Queer+Married co-owner of the lingerie boutique. The Temptress's Boudior, and the executive producer and CoStar of the film series Sex is a God thing, which is amazing. So she is multitalented, but just, is doing so many amazing things in the world. And so I'm very, very thrilled to have you as a guest guest today. Rashi, thank you so much for being here.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (01:18):

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm like I'm the energy just feels so good. And you know, we took a few breaths before we started and that. Just really, that felt really good. Thank you.

Amanda Testa (01:31):

Well, I know some of the things that we're going to dive in today around that really has struck me around pleasure as fuel and just, you know, with when things feel crazy or hard, like all the things that are going on right now, sometimes it can feel right. It feels like such a hard thing. And I love your perspective that actually kind of using that as a fuel, not a reward. And before we dive into all that though, I'd love, if you would maybe share a little bit about, you know, more about you and more about why you're so passionate about this work.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (02:05):

Wow. I began this work in maybe 2009, you know, I've been dancing pretty much all of my life, but this works specifically around, you know, coming back into the body and rebuilding or regenerating a generous relationship to our bodies that allows for us to experience pleasure without guilt or without shame or without inhibition, you know, began as a result of a study abroad that I did in Brazil, it was actually my second time going to Brazil, But this time I was alone, you know, unchaperoned quote unquote, you know, it was like doing this study abroad with my colleagues and it was just such a life changing experience being in this country where I was walking down the street and people saw me and it wasn't, you know, to not be invisible, right? Like my experience growing up in the US as a person of size as a dark skinned black woman who is upside is very different, was very different from the experience that I had, like being on the streets of Bahia and like seeing other women that looked like me who had bodies like me.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (03:26):

And like, they're just being a fullness and a presence and a praise and adoration around that body in particular. So it's just a very interesting shift in narrative to like, you know, to go from one place where your body is constantly seen as a problem or things to fix or something that needs to be, you know, shaped in a different way and, you know, in all the facets. And so to going to a place where it's like more of you, it's like, there's like an asking of more of, for you to like, you know, be in your body in a way that justs feel good to dance or move to like enjoy the foods, enjoy this. It's like rich energy. And I think I was also there during the summer months. And so, you know, some people who probably live in Bahia probably like, you know, the energy changes definitely, you know, politically and,uin, in,and in relationship to the weather.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (04:21):

So, you know, I don't want to paint this, like, you know, the fantasy of Brazil because there's just as much problems there, you know, as we have here in the U S but this experience that I had, you know, really allowed for me to, you know, have a, have a different experience in my body. And I, you know, as a dancer growing up, I had the, I kind of had that internal push to, you know, keep going and it's kind of avoid and the things that were happening, but it definitely took a toll and feeling like there wasn't a lot of space for me in the dance community in a way that honored me. And didn't like, put me into this constant cycle of like, you know, trying to fix or change something about my body in order to do this thing that I loved.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (05:07):

And so, you know, I, tried to find my way around at the best way that I could. And you know, this, when I was in Brazil, I told myself I was going to wear a bikini for the first time. And so I got, like, I bought a Brazilian bikini while I was there. And so, you know, yellow, you know, those bikini's, they're like nothing, it's just a string of material. And I was just so excited. Like I just, I was just, I mean, thrilled to no end, you know, to be walking down the beach in this body and, you know, at this size and like feeling good and, you know, not feeling like I had to cover myself up, so I wasn't making other people uncomfortable and you know, all of this other stuff. And so, you know, I brought the, you know, my culmination of experiences from that study abroad back home with me and just kept trying to find ways to reembody that energy of like feeling liberated in my body at whatever size I was, you know, an honoring this energy of the movement of Bahia, just like in my hips and, and also wanting to have a very generous relationship to my body that felt sensual, that felt alive, that felt erotic in ways that, you know, not just in terms of like the act of sex, but just the idea this concept of being alive, you know, the aliveness, you know, and how integral that energy is to be able to show up each day and not just like, you're not just there, if that makes sense.

Amanda Testa (06:39):

Yeah. That makes total sense. And having that aliveness to help with resilience and with, you know, really feeling present in whatever it is that you're experiencing.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (06:52):

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, because I won't ramble, but you know, if we're not, if we don't have that connection in some ways we feel it, you know what I mean? We feel it in our, in the way that we're interacting in our day to day relationships in our lives, we feel it in the way we approach our work, we feel that that energy of being stuck. And we talk about this in the Messy Movement Lab, as this understanding, where our muscle memory has kind of locked itself around a certain, experience, you know, in terms of like somatic work, right, we call this like when your trauma responses get activated and, you know, they can, they can go in a number of directions. They can partner up, you know, like you can be having two different trauma responses at the same time and your body's negotiating around that.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (07:47):

And so if our muscle memory only knows those, that, that stress response or that state of being as it's safe zone, the place where you feel protective, where you feel at ease, the place where you feel like you can like navigate life, you know, when we start to introduce pleasure and any type of way to that equation, their body, they're like, what is this? What is this foreign object that you are trying to like, make fit in this puzzle? You know, that there's no space for pleasure here, right? And so oftentimes people will go into these practices and feel, you know, like they have to come in already together, like already with enough information, like, you know, already confident enough to like, apply what they learned. You know, just like having all of these built up, you know, obstacles or resistance points.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (08:35):

And I'm sure that you probably see this in your work as well. And it's like, no, that's the very reason why you're here. You know, it's to be able to kind of have that start that conversation, you know, and build the trust to the work and the practice and enough in enough with enough safeness with, you know, I love the concept, you know, in thinking of complex trauma, when we talk about spaces being safe enough opposed to it's totally safe and creating these fantasies and these ideals, as opposed to being able to say like, no, I'm going to allow myself the opportunity to build a relationship with this, with this, with this piece, or with this work, or with this practice or this person over time. And then allow that time to, you know, be a guide in the unlearning for my muscle memory. You know, because if I, if I just try to throw it at it, you know, throw the tool at it and, you know, hope that that's like the magic, the magic pill or the magic thing, you know, I really don't ever have the opportunity to build ar elationship to a practice that continuously saves me, continuously feeds me. That continuously pours back into me.

Amanda Testa (09:46):

That's powerful. And one of the things that you just said, I just want to reflect back if I can, because it felt so good to hear around time, to be a guide in your unlearning. And I think that time piece is so big. It just feels nice to relax into that. It doesn't, you know, we often want things so quick, especially in our culture. It's like, Oh, we need to be this way and you gotta do this and you gotta do it now. And you gotta work harder at your self improvement or whatever the things, right.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (10:13):

Yeah. Yeah. We're always trying to get to that final IG production, you know, you know, with our perfect, with our perfect pictures of our perfect self-care plan with our perfect life and our perfect house with our perfect sex life, with our perfect marriage, you know, like we're always trying to get to that, that what are those images? And, you know, I just want to give everybody a wake up call they're stock images. Those are stock images, right? Like the real picture, like the meat, the context of that thing requires that you be present and you can't, you can't be numb and be present at the same time. You have to choose like, numbness is a protective mechanism, but it is if we have to understand that. And within that space that we are, you know, we're withdrawing ourselves from being present. And so that can be an active choice, but we also have to know how to make the choice to be present.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (11:11):

And that presence requires dealing with the discomfort and the fear and the confusion and the anxiety and the worry and the like, you know, what am I doing? And the doubt in the journey over time of building relationship to this new thing that you're asking to change your life. Like, we don't pick up a healing practice to say, Oh, I've got this powerful tool in my back pocket that I'd never ever actually use. I just want to let you know, I have it there. Right. Okay. That's useful. Right. And think about all of the tools, you know, people have learned over the course of time, but never do. They never really applied themselves to it. Right. Because they're looking for that quick, pick me up in like, Oh, I'm going to read this book and I'll be healed. Or, you know, I'm going to take this five day class and I'll figure it out.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (12:00):

You know? And it's always about just getting to the finish line as opposed to being able to curate a journey and being like, if you start here and, you know, there's all of this stress or tension or trauma or whatever that's built up in this place, what makes you think all of that is going to unravel in one five day class or 10 minutes, one time, every six months that you decide to meditate, right? Like it's, it's about building the, the, the disciplines to be consistent in your exploration and in your playfulness, and in your imagination.

Amanda Testa (12:33):

And I love how you mentioned too about, and I want you to talk more about the messy movement lab in a moment, but you know how you have all these familiar pains. And so you live into the unfamiliar pleasure that does not feel good to our systems often. And so it's like that. And one of my mentors, Rachel Maddox, was sharing around this the other day around. She's awesome. I am. And so it's really, so you have to find those places where it feels safe enough to tip toe in. Right. And know that there's, we can do it at a way that feels doable. Yeah.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (13:13):

Yes. As opposed to like jarring yourself. Right. Because then who's the goal really for, at that point, right? Like if there's such a demand on you getting to this place, as opposed to you being able to enjoy, enjoy the process of unlearning and unfolding and unraveling this tension that you've carried around a specific subject for however long. Like, if it's not about that. And, and I say that because in that, what I'm learning for myself is in that process of being able to sit with your own unraveling and that, and seeing things unfold and, and, and you start to project like a new lens on it, like the story changes, you know what I mean? And like all of these stories of pain that we've held around, you know, like the story may, may change, you know, may not change in terms of facts, but how you feel about it changes.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (14:09):

It starts to take a different place in like your own personal museum. Right. Like where it was originally in like the immediate triggers section, you know, right now it's just like, Oh, this was, these were things that were like really Fed UP, , but like, you know, they didn't make me stronger or anything like that, but it's like, this is something that really shaped who I am today, you know, is a big part of my, I don't know if anybody's like an animated movie fan, but if you inside out, it's like one of my core memories, right? Like, it's one of those things that, you know, really has defined who I am at this very moment. And so it's something that I honor, right. I can pay attention to it. I can acknowledge it. You know, I talk a lot about the grief of my, you know, my father passing and now the grief of taking care of my mother and, you know, being in this place with her, where I'm watching her age and watching her body, you know, just like do its thing. And we're in these, this reverse role, these are, this is grie that isn't just like, Oh, I need to get over it. You know what I mean? Like, Oh, like, you know, it'll be fine in a couple of days or in a couple months, I won't think about this. These are grapes that live with you forever. Right? Like they change you as a person and without them, you know what I mean? Like, it's, we, you know, we kind of float through our experience in this ideal. Right. But yeah.

Amanda Testa (15:34):

And I, first of all, just want to say, you know, I'm sorry for the loss of your father and no understanding that caregiving role and the stress involved it, you know, this time in life, when I feel like there's can be that transition where you go and you have to care for your, your elder family members. And I know for myself, my father died of early onset Alzheimer's. So he was like on a ten-year decline. And at the same time my mom was going through breast cancer. So I was like taking care of her. And I just remember one of these times being at home and feeling that really knowing like, I have too adult now. Right. I have too adult now.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (16:12):

Oh, I'm the adult here, adult. Oh, okay. That's very unfortunate. But, and you're like crying the entire time. Like, you know, it's like, why didn't we want to grow up? Like, what was, what was all that kicking and screaming we were doing? Like, this is not very fun, but yeah. You know, even just like in thinking about like those painful, like, like those painful memories, being that comfortable spot, I think about my own relationship with my mom around my sexuality and how, you know, when I came out as queer, like, you know, my family, she, and when I say my family, because I wasn't, you know, I grew up as an only child, even though I have a brother who passed away when I was younger, but my family, my mother did not respond very well to me coming out and, you know, didn't respond very well to like my exploration.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (17:06):

And she just, you know, she was carrying a lot of, her own, she didn't have the tools, there was a decade of her life, mean, an entire time period she and I didn't bond But she didn't have, she didn't have the tools to be able to manage it. You know, what was her own, you know, history and trauma. And then also be able to like, hold the space for me to have this exploration that really went against like everything that she was taught when she, when she was growing up. And so, you know, it was just that period, that of time that he shaped, you know, a big part of both of our lives and the way in which we related to each other and, you know, like the, the dynamic of our family and, you know, quite honestly that it was, you know, for me as a black queer person, you know, I think that, you know, a lot of people probably have, you know, similar, you know, stories of trauma with their families, where they had to, even if it wasn't the best timing, even if it wasn't, you know, the right, you know, the right mood for the moment, you know, had to strike out from their families or from their church spaces in order to like regain sanity.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (18:27):

Right. Because when you're constantly in this space of, you know, hearing this negative messaging or experiencing harm, or, you know, emotional or physical harm as a result of trying to step into and own your, you know, your sexual or gender identity which we understand to being a very complex and integral part of who we all are, right. Like innate, just, you know, from our reproductive health to the way that we show up in the world to the, you know, the policies and the law that like, you know, act in our favor, or don't like, you know, there's so much about gender and sex that like, it's, it's just intertwined into our day-to-day existence. So we can't, we can't avoid it, you know, unfortunately in these experiences with a lot of queer,queer black people, and it, within their family dynamics, they, they don't get that same nurturing or support or care, you know, as they're trying to find the language and figure things out and, you know, and that can lead to a lot of detriment and a lot of harm from housing insecurity to, you know, suicide ideation to, you know, just continued psychological, you know, damage, you know what I'm saying, just from like not having those, those structures in place.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (19:45):

And, and that can also be depending upon when this person came out. And so for me, I was like in the middle of high school, you know, so I went with my mom and I spent a lot of time in this really bad tug of war around, you know, my, my sexuality and, you know, it, it caused me to spiral into a lot of situations that were not, that were harmful or could have been, you know, dangerous. And as a result of like not having a space to talk, not having a space to really bring some of the concerns of the fears, you know, things that I was thinking about without feeling like that was going to create more, you know, more harm. And so, you know, it really wasn't until maybe a year or so before I got married to my spouse that did our relationship start to change. And so that was like, you know, maybe four or five years ago. And, you know, we just, we started to like, you know, we just started to talk more and, you know, this

Amanda Testa (20:48):

Was prior to my father passing who was also, you know, had a very negative reaction to my queerness and, you know, became violent physically and emotionally in the face as a result of me sharing with parents this piece of my life. And so, you know, I think that my mom's seeing how that experience, you know, how that impacted me. I think that, you know, made a shift for her in how she wanted to show up in the space and what she wanted those memories to be. Yeah. Yeah, no, the Messy Movement practice in all of the names that it's been known by has provided the structure and the safety net and the sanctuary that I needed, you know, to navigate the experiences that I was having. And also knowing that even though this experience was happening with them, it was know.

Amanda Testa (21:54):

And yeah, it sounds like, you know, even with all that you were experiencing and all the pain and having that, that sanctuary of that Messy Movement practice, to be able to create a safe space for you to have that safety net, to be able to have the experiences to feel and move through all you were experiencing, it sounds like, hello, can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Okay. Cut out for a minute again, but yeah. And you know, as we're talking too, I just noticed the sound of the water in the background and it just feels so soothing to me to hear. Yeah.

Amanda Testa (22:46):

I was just wondering if it might be okay to take a moment just to listen to the waves [inaudible] for me, I feel like nature is such a huge resource because I feel like oftentimes it feels challenging for me to feel supported in some ways, but always with nature, I can feel the connection that there's something bigger than me that can hold whatever is present so it just feels good for me to connect to, So thank you. And I'd love to, if you'd share more about, you know, I know you mentioned your, your, the creation of the Messy Movement lab has, you know, changed morphed over time, but tell me a little bit more about, about that program in that practice and how, you know, how it can help, help people to connect to that resource of dance and movement.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (24:00):

Yeah. You know, I think what I was saying was like, you know, the messy movement practice as it's, you know, all the names it's been known by over the last 10 years created that sanctuary for me to be able to, you know, feel supported and to feel held and to feel like I, you know, had a space where I could unravel and where I had a space where I could like let my guard down and let my body have an opportunity to experience rest, to experience pleasure, to experience connection, even in the midst of all of the things that were happening around me. And so what I love about the work is that, you know, it's really, it, it doesn't require you to have a whole lot of space or, you know, for you to have any props or costumes or anything of the sort.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (24:57):

Now, of course you can add those things later to enhance your practice, but the very base of our practices, being able to stop, drop, and dance wherever you are, and allow your body to sink into that moment and to check in with what your body is experiencing mentally, emotionally, and to you, that energy to be a catalyst for your practice and understanding that our, our, our knowing of the erotic is not just in having experiences that are, you know, rooted in like seduction or in that, in that arena, but also in just being able to feel whatever, be emotional, whatever the experiences, whether that's grief or rage or disappointment or curiosity, or, you know, tenderness or anxiety or seduction or playfulness or lust or joy, like wherever you're at, knowing that there is a space on the spectrum of this practice for you to enter it and get what you need so that you can be restored. And it's never about, Oh, well, you know, I'm in a good place. I don't need it today. It's like, even when you have enough, pour in some more, right, like fill the tank up so that it's overflowing as opposed to just operating, on, you know, barely enough or just enough, or just enough to get by, right. Like giving yourself a reservoir, you know, that you can pull from as you're moving through your day to day life.

Amanda Testa (26:32):

Yeah. I think that, that coming back to it again, and again, is so key because like you said, being able to drop in, I love how you said stop drop and dance. That, you know, I'm wondering too, if it might feel okay to perhaps share maybe one or two things, if someone's listening is like, well, that sounds like it'd be awesome, but I don't know how to go about it. What would I do?

Rashida Khanbey Miller (26:58):

Oh man. You know, I think one of the first things that I love that we actually started doing this, you know, I want you to just take a second and close your eyes, and I want you to just hear the sound that's around you. What sounds do you notice starting right there in that place and just allowing your body to breathe really generously, maybe even bringing your hands to your stomach, allowing yourself to find that point of connection, maybe your hands need to be on your heart or your hips or on the back of your neck, on top of your head, wherever it is, just finding that connection. You know, like you can start with your music, you know, grab and song. Literally. I challenge you to do any song as opposed to trying to find the right song. And when you put it on starting right there, again, from that place of connecting to the body and letting your body determine what the move is, as opposed to you trying to decide what your day, we all know how to dance, we all know how to move our bodies in ways that, you know, feel good and feel, you know, like just exciting in the moment.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (28:26):

And so whatever the song is, just letting your body react to the music and finding your dance right there every day, five minutes will change your life.

Amanda Testa (28:38):

So, so good. Thank you so much. And you know, I think that's, what's so beautiful cause your program is available online now, right? So it can reach anyone in the world.

Rashida Khanbey Miller (28:50):

Yes, yes, yes. We have students all over our, and you know, we make sure that we have classes that are available and, you know, different timing so that everyone gets a chance to get in on some of the live experiences and you know, and it's really a place of multiple classes available throughout the week, all on mine. And there's also a pre-recorded classes in, you'll take advantage of when you sign up for the space so that, you know, like if you're not able to make one of the live classes, you don't have to worry about missing out. And then we provide accountability and social support. And just like being a part of a community of people who are doing this practice and doing this work and really making a commitment to come back into the body of the pleasure Practice. I feel that it's such a crucial part of being able to stay committed. I mean, when you're doing it alone and isolated it's hard to kind of source grandfather, that faith and all that energy in when you're having a day where you're doubting yourself or when you're not feeling motivated, but to see someone else, you know, be able to move from their own doubt or, you know, give you that inspiration or that catalyst to move again like death.

Amanda Testa (30:06):

Right. I so agree in the community spaces are so important. I think too, because there is so much maybe shame or all the things that can come up and I feel having that group to lean into can just offer so much more and so much more of an opportunity, like you said, when you're not quite feeling it to get, to get some energy from the group or vice versa, if you have more to give the group can receive and you know, it's such a beautiful,

Rashida Khanbey Miller (30:35):

I love that about groups

Amanda Testa (30:39):

Sowell Rashi, This has been such a pleasure to talk with you. And I'm wondering too, if there's any, and I want to give you an opportunity to share where everyone connect can connect with you. But first I'd love to hear, you know, if you have any, any last words or maybe if there was a question that you wished that I would have asked that I didn't ask,

Rashida Khanbey Miller (30:56):

Oh my God, I feel like we covered such a, a nice range. And just being able to talk about the presence of the body and, and talking about how, you know, past pain and grief kind of wraps around that, that that's really good. Thank you for giving me the space to share and to talk openly.

Amanda Testa (31:18):

It's an honor to have you, and if people are listening in they're feeling called to connect, what's the best way to find, to find more about you and to work with you?

Rashida Khanbey Miller (31:28):

Yeah, absolutely. On all of our information about classes is available on themessymovementlab.com and you can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at the messymovementlab. I'm looking forward to reaching out. You have questions, please don't hesitate to send us an email or send us a message and we'd be happy to help.

Amanda Testa (31:51):

And I'll also make sure to post in the show notes, all of Rashi's links so you can connect and learn more about her and her work and the messy movement lab and all the awesome things she's got going on. Yes. And thank you all for listening. See you next week. Thank you so much for listening to the find your feminine fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact at amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook in the group Fnd Your Feminine Fire Group. And if you've this podcast, Please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

Do you want to be able to trust your body? Are you ready to listen to it’s guidance?

In this week’s podcast I’m talking with Dr. Sonali Deepika, M.D., ABIHM, a holistic and integrative physician and Sensuality Coach, on how to connect with and honor your Sensual Sacred Ground to feel better in your body, ignite your sensuality, and enjoy more compassionate self love.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

This week I have the pleasure of talking with my friend and colleague Sonali Deepika Nanayakkara M.D., ABIHM. Sonali is a holistic and integrative physician with a passion for guiding people to honor the sacred nature of their bodies and to connect to the deep wisdom which lies within.  She spent nearly 20 years in Chicago studying and practicing conventional medicine, specializing in child and adolescent psychiatry.  Along the way, she developed a keen interest in holistic forms of healing and became passionate about the ancient wisdom of Ayurveda. Her path eventually led her to complete a coaching program which integrates the ancient wisdom of Tantra and Taoism with modern science regarding sexuality, sexual healing and embodiment practices.  She currently serves as a  senior teacher for the Vital and Integrated Tantric Approach (VITA) Coaching Program and practices as a Sensuality Coach.

You can find more about Sonali and her upcoming events and offerings HERE.

Follow her on Insta HERE.

Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire Podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex love and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex love and relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Hello everyone. And welcome. And I am very excited today because I am talking with a, amazing friend and teacher Dr. Sonali Deepika, and I am thrilled today because we're going to be diving into really all things around sensuality and really awakening that in the power that we have within us. And I am excited for Sonali to be here today. Thank you so much again, and I just really love your story as well. Kind of what led you to go from being, you know, being in medical school, being a psychiatrist, and then, you know, kind of shifting to really embodying, you know, the body and how you integrate that and Ayurveda and all the different modalities that you've studied over the years to kind of bring this, this different awareness and opportunity for awakening for women. So, yes. Thank you so much for being here.

Sonali Deepika (01:15):

Thank you Amanda,. I'm so honored Having followed you from a far for a little while now, we've been working alongside each other and It's so great to be here.

Amanda Testa (01:27):

So yeah, I'd love just to start with, you know, as you mentioned, we actually have been working together this past year as senior teachers for the Tantric Institute of Integrated Sexuality. And I love you have such a beautiful transmission, just like such love and you know, this gentle power about you that feels so delicious to receive. So I'd also love, you know, just to share a little bit more about you and kind of what led you on this journey. If you can tell,

Sonali Deepika (01:56):

I would say this, I'll say this about journeys that they can take such unexpected twists and turns. So let's say for, let's go back four years, four years ago, if you've been like, Oh yeah, you're going to be working with women with sensuality and all these things. No, that was never, never on my, on the horizon. For me. It wasn't anything. The thing, you know, that, that I was, that was in my field that was in my world at all, which is probably quite telling.

Sonali Deepika (02:30):

It's probably part of what, you know, somewhere along the way, there was like, you know, something missing that, that brought me To this point. But I will say I do. I find it for me very helps me when I think about my own journey to go back to part of where my initial motivation had been.

Sonali Deepika (02:53):

So that had been, I already was in medical school. So I got there all the kinds of ways, so many exams, so many things, and Like, This is what I, you know, should be doing. And then there were even some detours in that where at one point I'm like, well, I guess I'm not doing that. And then I got into the medical school going through having like ditched all the applications and like, I guess I'm not doing it. So it wasn't like totally smooth, but then I was in it and halfway in it, there was a tragedy for me. There was a, a trauma that I think so many of us have that somewhere on our path.

Sonali Deepika (03:30):

For me it was a traumatic loss. And so my younger brother who is my only sibling. He took his life when I was halfway through medical school. So this had a profound impact and I found myself being this empath. Like I am like, I was right away like connected to the way that he died. That affected me in my life, in my just like personal life. But it also affected me in terms of, Oh, how do I want to help people? You know, what path do I want to follow so that I can be of most service. And that felt like psychiatry. That is not why I went into medical school. That is not at all.

Sonali Deepika (04:19):

What was driving me, I wanted to work with kids. I was like, I'm going to be a pediatrician. My father was a pediatrician, he's retired, but he was a pediatrician. And I was like, alright, that really motivated me. And suddenly this, this path happened, this, this twist, you know, happened this, this loss. And I felt like, yeah, I'm going to go into this. And I did. So I went into psychiatry and then I specialized to work with children. So I was working as a child and adolescent psychiatrist. And there was a lot of,

Sonali Deepika (04:50):

Part of that was so rewarding. It was so rewarding for a certain time. It was so rewarding to actually delve into emotions and what was going on in a person's inner life. And especially when I could do what I could to intervene with youth and kind of help shape their path because that's, I think that's always

Sonali Deepika (05:11):

Where I was like, let me work with youth in some way, and really have, you can have Little shift and it has a big, a big change in their, in their trajectory. So it was, it was good for awhile until it just wasn't rewarding anymore. Like I'm not, I don't really feel like I'm having the effect that I want. I don't even, I wasn't believing in it as much. And what really was Missing for me was a holistic component, like looking at the whole person and where they are in their journey and what's affecting them. And in psychiatry, I mean, it's a valuable field. But it, it does tend to get pushed into this like medication kind of thing. And and that also start, there's nothing against medication. I do think it can be helpful, but I've always felt and do to this day. Like it's a small piece of a whole, a whole shift that needs to be happening at whole change and looking at body soul relationships, the context and, you know, energy, all these things. So that led to me finding Ayurveda and studying that while being a psychiatrist,

Sonali Deepika (06:31):

And, finding a very big clash there because Ayurveda is all about ,well it's a lot of things. It's a huge, vast science, but it's, it's all about prevention. I mean, I read that there are five, there are like six different stages of illness. And it's like the sixth one is where Western medicine intervenes. And that makes sense. And so it was like, Oh my gosh, what are we doing? There's the subtleties there's there's places to feel into the, we can each, when we get aware you know, with our senses and our experiences, we can start to notice, Oh yeah, something's not right over in this area. And we can course correct. We can balance Ayurveda is about finding balances, opposites, and, and then bringing the whole system into a state of balance. And it's an active, ongoing process. It's not a, like you get there and it's done.

Sonali Deepika (07:33):

I was fascinated by it fascinated. And so I, I started learning a lot about that. And that led to, at some point getting invited by my mother's friend, right when I was like, I need to do something, I need a change. I need to do something. I don't know what exactly something has to change cannot go on. And it was having an effect on me. Like I was not thriving at all. You know, something like I need to do something. And my mother's friend who invited me to go to Sri Lanka, that's where my parents are originally from. And they had this Ayurvedic resort. And it was like that, you know, that perfect, like timing, chance and opportunity, you know, coming together that led me to go there. So I, I find that part of this journey, I haven't even gotten to the other part, but you know, just what I shared was a motivation from a place of pain. I find that like my initial work in medicine was driven by that. Like, I felt this guilt, about my brother, I also have struggled with depression and in my life. And it was like, okay, I'm going to help. I'm going to help. I'm going to help, but it's coming from this, this kind of place of pain. And once I got to Sri Lanka, once that didn't quite out for me, and I discovered Layla Martin's work. Everything starts to shit. Then it's like, Oh, pleasure. How about we focus on that for a change?

Sonali Deepika (09:07):

Sounds like a new thing for me.

Sonali Deepika (09:09):

Yeah. So that, that was that, that was a big part of the journey. And I also think of the, in my body, what started to happen. Cause I was so like in my head, I was so focused on, you know, using my intellect knowledge, all these things I had learned in this part of my training was basically knowledge-based, you know, it's like how this works out. That works how the physiology works, how medicine works, how, you know, how all these things are connected. And so there was a journey in my body from like my head, from my mind to my heart, my body, my pussy like all of that started to get, you know, In line. That was a beautiful journey. Took a lot of time because there's a lot of resistance when there.{laughing}. So I think about those two really big factors of

Sonali Deepika (10:14):

What's what's motivating me. And it was, it definitely was coming from this painful, like suffering kind of place, but wanting to wait to help and wanting to do good things that it was coming from there. And so it was challenging. It was, it was challenging kind of work for me and to like a place of pleasure where I can focus on my own pleasure. What brings me pleasure? Who do I want to help? How do I want to help people? How do I want to feel in my body when I'm doing all of that? Which wasn't part of my, it wasn't in my awareness before.

Amanda Testa (10:51):

And I think what you said, you know, first of all, I really I'm so sorry about your brother and just want to send you some love around that. But you know, also in your journey, you know, you're spoke to numerous times about how there was this drive to help and to, you know, create that change in the trajectory of someone's life at an earlier age. And I like how that visual, you said, you know, it can really make a difference. And then also realizing like at the root of all this, there was, it was like based in like this painful pursuit of kind of trying to come at it from a different way and then kind of when pleasure knocked on the door. And, and I think it's so interesting because so many people will be like, well, pleasure sometimes feels like such a trivial thing. And I love sharing alternative perspectives around that. Cause I totally disagree. And it's not just, it's a big thing. And so I'm wondering for you to like, you know, what was that, how did kind of that door open because you mentioned it was a really hard shift to move down at first, what kind of helped you to realize, wow, there's a different way.

Sonali Deepika (11:58):

Yeah. I mean, I think this is where all the things start to come together, you know, because Ayurveda is also about being in a state of, of ease of comfort, of pleasure, you know, in a way. And that's how it's like, if you, if you ask us in Western, in Western medicine, what does it mean to be healthy? It's often the absence of some kind of disease. That is how we look at it, but in Ayurveda, that was like, no, it was much more about thriving and enjoying and really being in a, like in a comfortable place in our mind, body, spirit and all of that. So started kind of with this and then, you know, this work took it to a whole different level that I hadn't thus far been it's in there. I'm sure, but I hadn't really encountered in Ayurveda made that so much sense. And it was like, Oh, let's, let's really get into pleasure. Let's go there

Sonali Deepika (13:02):

I did her (Layla Martin's) online course Obliss which was like this whole, you know, awakening in itself. And then that led to applying for her coaching program, which I'd never in a million years was thinking like, it's amazing, but I just didn't. I had done a lot of training, and thougt to myself, Is this something that I need? But really, I did. I did, at that time I did a retreat that was kind of right at this point it was Layla's retreat. And it was, I was halfway through my time in Sri Lanka, learning more about Ayurveda it wasn't quite going right. And I went to this retreat that she called Wild Bliss and for a reason, it was incredible, .

Sonali Deepika (13:47):

Yeah. But that's when I hit resistance, a lot of resistance. I was trying to do breath work. I have all this, like, what is this? I don't know what's supposed to happen here, [laughing} so much going on in my head. It took a while. And then it took a while, you know, to really like, Okay, let me just let that be. Let me just focus on the sensations in the body and what's there and what's alive, what's present. And I really think that pleasure is it's part of a sign of health that we can experience pleasure. And, you know, we might not always experience pleasure in everything we do, but even that understanding that things will happen and we can regulate ourselves and come back into some state of comfort. It might just be a state of accpetancefor a little while, you know, before we can get back into actual feeling, more pleasure, but it is something that we are wired to feel and experience. And he gets left out of medicine. I don't think anyone talked about it and certainly the training had nothing to do with it. So, and.

Amanda Testa (15:20):

It's funny how you mentioned too, you know, being obviously in medical school, you obviously, you know, studied very hard and there's so much around learning and the knowledge and obviously in Western medicine. And I think too, just in growing up at least here in the U S where I grew up, you know, around that push push culture of you gotta like learn everything and you gotta be the smartest. And I think when it comes to pleasure, what's funny about, oftentimes for people coming into this, if that's the mindset like very much in the intellect and knowledge, it's, you can't really "good student" your way into pleasure. Right. Which I think is so funny. Cause I remember too, first doing this, like, is this, how do I do this? Like, is this right? Like I want to make sure I'm doing it exactly right. I got a doll, all the steps I'm like, no, no, no, no. That's part of the unlearning. It's like, you can study your way into your body. You have to just be. Allow it.

Sonali Deepika (16:11):

It's like, that's exactly what I hit. It's like, wait, I don't get it. Give me the steps Help me out here. I don't understand. Right. And same.

Amanda Testa (16:24):

And then, I mean, yes, there is a structure that you can be guided through, which is so helpful. And that's why it's so wonderful to have a coach or a mentor to work with. But once you kind of get it, that's kind of the intention. I feel like a lot of this work it's to teach you to fish, so to speak, it's like not to, just to give you an experience. Yes. That's part of it, but also teaching you how to do it for yourself.

Sonali Deepika (16:45):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's that's so it, I mean, that's really like in this work, I find it's being the guide being there, being present, giving maybe some, some gentle guidance instruction, maybe a little bit, but it's really allowing someone to make that journey because that's where the magic is.

Amanda Testa (17:13):

Yes. I love how you touched on how can have pleasure as a measure of health. Cause I feel like, I mean, it is true our, our overall health that has to be viewed holistically. So if there's a problem in one area, there's usually some disharmonies in other areas. So if you feel totally disconnected from your sexuality or you have no libido or no sex drive, like all these things are just often times symptoms of other things going on. Yeah. And so I think I like this holistic approach around working through those kind of things.

Sonali Deepika (17:46):

Definitely. Yeah. I mean, the way I think about it too, is, in order to feel pleasure, we have to be in our like in our nervous system. We have to be in our window of tolerance. Right. So, so many things will push us into fight flight, freeze, appease, and we can be in these States and we aren't actually fully experiencing what's going on around us. We're not fully sensing and we're stuck in these places. So there's something where just that, just thinking about the nervous system, that way brings us into holistic health, because so much goes into all of that. And once we can do what we need or make the shifts that we need to get into this place where we can feel pleasure, it's a, it's a good sign, you know?

Amanda Testa (18:43):

Yeah. And I think too, like you mentioned. Yeah. And I think you mentioned too, it's like just noticing how, whatever you're experiencing, you know, you can find a way to find more presence or comfort there. Not necessarily like pleasure can look like a lot of different things. Right? Yeah. And, and the other thing too, I love, I love how you speak a lot to sacred ground. Like I am sacred ground viewing yourself as sacred ground. So I would love if you could speak to that a little more, if you don't mind.

Sonali Deepika (19:13):

Yes. I love that. I love, I am sacred ground. To me it's a mantra and I didn't, another woman came up with that at a retreat. We had to come up with these "I am" statements and mine was, I still remember, it was a few years ago, I was, "I am love lit up". That felt really good to me. I liked it. And then she came out with, I am sacred ground and afterwards I was like, Oh my God, like that actually, I felt it in my body. I felt that it throughout my body and, and reached out to her later when I was coming up with different things about what this business was going to be, and she was so gracious. She's like, I think that, you know, it might have come through for you to use it. But sacred ground to me is it really is about thinking of our body as a temple. Like, like appreciating it that way with that kind of reference. And it's with that, that we can make decisions about how do we treat the body? How do we treat this temple? What do we invite in? And what kind of boundaries that I think is also very important and in health and wellbeing, it's like having boundaries whether the comes to relationships, whether it comes to different kinds of stimuli, like we can choose. There's some things we cannot choose. Granted things happen to us in our lives, but there are things that we can choose even when it comes to what social media we take in, what do we watch? What are we listening to? What definitely, what are we eating? You know, and this is this idea of being that it's about being the most loving and compassionate and kind to our bodies to this temple.

Sonali Deepika (21:11):

That's ours, it's ours that we got from the time we came into the world and that we'll have until we leave. And so how do we want to treat this body, this entity.

Amanda Testa (21:25):

That so beautiful. I love that. And the, I am sacred ground and really viewing your body that way. One of the things I find so interesting was an interesting side effect of this work around sexuality that I wasn't expecting is having such more appreciation and adoration for my own body. Like no matter what form it's in, I, you know, just feeling like so much more accepting of myself.

Sonali Deepika (21:50):

That's so beautiful. And I think that's such a, it is like, Oh, like you said Amanda, It's almost like a side effect. Like you're doing things and maybe focusing on pleasure and having a lot more pleasure in life or, or, you know, choosing what would be most pleasurable. Like I think that's a way in, and then, and then suddenly it's like, Oh, how do I take care of this, this body that's giving me the pleasure. That's allowed me to experience this. How do I choose? Like, that's really, there's so much empowerment around that.

Amanda Testa (22:30):

Yeah. And maybe you would share if you feel like this is doable, perhaps a couple of things that you could, that you'd like to invite in as people are on the path of moving into more pleasure and more honoring their sacred ground, what would be some things that you could maybe recommend?

Sonali Deepika (22:51):

Such a good point there. So there's so many things. I mean, honestly, what, what comes to mind is really this, this practice that I've been calling sensual self care, it's like sensual, self care, sensual self-love. And it's like I was saying, it's that it's making those choices about what, what feels the most loving, what feels, what feels so kind compassionate, what feels good, what feels pleasurable to the body. So, Ayurveda is full of that, I didn't even realize it when I found it untill I was going into Ayurveda, there's really a whole practice, a whole science around self-love.

Sonali Deepika (23:45):

So, so there's a lot to say, I suppose when I'm thinking of, but, but I, I think it can just start with something as, as simple, as turning into the body, putting hands on the body and asking and just asking what would be most loving for me to do in this moment and, and letting that, that guidance be, what, what helps make the decisions around that? So that could be about, it could be about eating something, drinking something, it could be about massaging. It could be about taking a rest or it could be about being more active. Like actually, what would be great right now is to go for a walk, do something more stimulating. So like that's what happens with Ayurveda too, is that we're working in, in balances, what stimulating what's calming, what's grounding. And so I think that's a, it's a really good practice to start to, to tune in because there's lots of ways to look, look up, you know, what I should be doing or look into self care practices are so many things out there.

Sonali Deepika (25:00):

But I think what is so valuable, what's really priceless is tuning into the body more and letting it like listening to its guidance, to its wisdom and letting that be what drives our actions.

Amanda Testa (25:18):

You know, I love that so much. And I think, you know, as you mentioned, you know, when you tune in, you can do that anywhere, right. It doesn't necessarily, I mean, you can do it while you're working. You can do it while you're taking care of kids. You can do it when you're doing whatever. It's like just really tuning in and being like, what do I need right now? And I like how you mentioned it can be so simple as I need to drink some water, I need to go to the bathroom or, cause I know sometimes when people are so busy or they feel so overwhelmed, those are things like you can't always do. So it's ridiculous. But I remember for myself starting this journey, like to go to the bathroom when you need to go to the bathroom, okay, you don't have to hold it for two hours because you can't get to the bathroom or you take care of someone else.

Sonali Deepika (26:04):

So true. And I think that's, what's so baffling in some ways about how we're conditioned. And certainly I can tell you, it happens all throughout medical training. We're not allowed to listen to our bodies. We're going to be staying up all night. We're going to be doing, you know, not eating. And I mean, I'm not saying like we starve and all this stuff that it's just, there's an encouragement to just push and push and study and do this and do that. And it's like, you lose, you lose all contact with wait, what is most loving to my body? What is my body wanting in this moment? You that's an extreme of course, but just in our lives, like you say happens all the time with like all the other needs and all the things that have to get done to some basic yeah. Water, water would be good. Let's hydrate. Let's use the bathroom. {laughing}

Amanda Testa (27:02):

Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. That's a beautiful in the station of like how to kind of start like moving into this more. Yeah. And I'm go ahead.

Sonali Deepika (27:15):

Well, I was just going to say like, it's, like you said, it's just the start, but it's such an, just ease in to that. Because once we get into habits, like once we start to create these habits of self loving, self caring practices, even as I'm going to use a bathroom. As soon as I feel the need, even something like that, then we start to get so much more tuned. We get attuned when we're, when we're not doing that, we're not listening. Our bodies will give us, give us a signal. It's like, there's , I don't know, few months during the quarantine, I did an elimination diet because I have to check in with an inflammation and a thyroid condition, all these things.

Sonali Deepika (28:02):

But it was really interesting. What came out of that, One thing that really stuck with me is that our body, if we're not listening to our body, it stops sending signals. It's Very intelligent, highly intelligent. So like with the food example, let me just share, like I found out, well, tomatoes are not as good for me and I've eaten tomatoes my entire life. But when I kept eating them, eating them, like, I didn't know that I was just eating my body, stopped giving me any signal that this was causing inflammation, that this was a problem. I had to cut it out. I had to stop. And then I started getting the signals. And then there's something similar about this process of starting to listen, just starting to listen and starting to do some things. And then there's more, there's more signals. There's more invitations. Cause the body's kind of like, Oh, this person's actually going to do something good for me. She's gonna listen.

Amanda Testa (29:10):

It's two way conversation. It's like, Oh wait, you're actually listening. I'm going to keep talking now. Thanks.

Sonali Deepika (29:21):

Yeah. Yeah. I want to say one more thing about that. And I know this comes from Ayurveda, which is another, like very basic. I love these little pearls of wisdom, but once there's, there's a notion, a concept in Ayurveda that when our body is in balance we crave the things that keep it in balance and a contrast when our body's out of balance, we are craving the things that keep us out of balance. And so it's an interesting, it's, it's a little bit of a catch 22 there. Cause we have to pay attention to what are we craving? What are we wanting? But for me, it took me back to many of those years doing medical training and practice where yeah, I craved fly French fries, pizza. I was quite out of balance. And it's like, this is what happened. So when we slow it down and start to do the things that are so loving and caring and kind we can, get back into balance and our bodies will help us.

Amanda Testa (30:36):

Yeah. I like that visual. And I think, you know, what you mentioned too, is really that prevention piece. It's like when you are taking care of yourself in general, as a whole, you are inviting more health and more aliveness and more vitality in all areas of your life, in your body, outside of your body and your relationships. It really all is so connected. And I think it's funny too, how you mentioned, you know, you crave certain things. If you're in balance that help you stay in balance. If you're out of balance, you crave things that keep you out of balance, which kind of reminds me a little bit if kind of a trauma response in a way, right?

Amanda Testa (31:12):

So you maybe have these unhealthy patterns that you've created for yourself, but they're your best friends because they've kept you safe all this time or they've saved your life at some point. And so it's like, it feels good to be there to bring those things in or you want them, you crave them, but it's like kind of teaching your body. Well, this is a little more of what you need to be feeding yourself and it's okay. So you can dip in and try some. And of course you can go back and then dip it and try some more and then you slowly shift the balance, right? So then you are craving. What's good for you.

Sonali Deepika (31:41):

Yeah. Yeah. And it is, it is, it's so slow and subtle and also bringing compassion when we can bring compassion to the part of us that is craving the things that we know it's not healthy. That makes such a difference too. So when we can just bring compassion to the whole process, my body is craving this because it is bringing some sense of comfort. It's bringing some kind of balance. It's just not doing so a healthy way, but something is, is off balance within me. And this is why I'm craving these things. And this is why I'm doing these things. And to bring that like compassion and love to, to, to viewing all of that makes such a difference versus shame, guilt, you know, punitive kind of things that we can do.

Amanda Testa (32:42):

I know I've done that. Of course, me too. I beat myself up for years. I don't know what possessed me, but for some reason earlier today, I like picked up this journal from 1994. I don't know why I was like, for some reason, I was like thinking about this period of time where I was living in Jackson hole, Wyoming.

Amanda Testa (33:00):

I was just turning 21 that summer. For some reason, I was like, Ooh, I'm going to pick this up. But I just was like, Oh, sending so much love to myself because it was just so mean to myself. Right. Just so much self bashing. And it's interesting just as you grow and can look back and have more empathy for parts of yourself. But I think anytime you can do that, right? Like even now during the quarantine, there were times where like, yeah, I'm gonna eat a bag of chips and I'm going to enjoy every chip because I want to just stuff my feelings right now. And I have full awareness about what I'm doing. Exactly. Oh, you're in the window. It's fine.

Amanda Testa (33:36):

But like also noticing when it's like, okay, now you've been doing that for a couple of weeks. Now it's time to like dial it in. Right. But, but that's just, we, we it's like, I think the more we understand our patterns in our bodies and the more we can be kind to ourselves and kind of understand why the patterns are there, what, what to, you know, how to kind of bring ourselves back more into balance. I like that. Yeah.

Sonali Deepika (34:00):

So true and I had something similar where I was, I was actually really just talking about, Oh, I had the sweet tooth and you know, it's like, that's one thing I know, but I can enjoy and not, you know, not feel bad and just same thing. Like, I'm just going to sit, I'm going to enjoy I'm going to savor it all. But I was doing that a bit like several days. So chocolate, chocolate cake, various things. So I'm like, yeah, okay. Maybe it's time to like, just bring that.

Sonali Deepika (34:35):

And sometimes, you know, not probably not right in the moment of like eating chocolate cake or, you know, eating, I love chips, do what you sweet salty, snacky things, but afterwards, or when we're in like a neutral place, it is a point of asking. We can ask, you know, what, what am I really wanting? Like what do I really want here? What is my body really needing? And that can really help us to go go deeper as well. Because a lot of times with sweets, I mean Ayurveda, the different doshas, it's like sweets unrelated to kapha, but it's a, which is really nurturing and, you know, can feel really grounding, but it's the, it's the, you know, unhealthy version of the kapha. And we can have a healthier version, you know, we can find, you know, being put ourselves at like a warm bath or like, you know, something that feels really good and warm, and snugly and nurturing. And that can just that sense. We looking at the senses of what is it that we're actually really wanting in the moment.

Amanda Testa (35:47):

And I love how you share what you can do when you feel like you need that And so I feel like I could just keep talking to you forever. I'm like, Oh my goodness. So I definitely want you to share where people can learn more about you and how to work with you. But I also want to just check in and see, you know, was there maybe a question that you wished I would have asked or something that you really wanted to make sure we talked about?

Sonali Deepika (36:10):

Just wanted to share, because I think we actually didtalk about it, but I just want to share that what's come up for me more recently in this work, in this work with sensuality is, is like these three pillars kind of thing to me and they overlap. I actually think I'm like Venn diagram, they overlap, but the self-love, which we talked a lot about sensuality, which we have talked about. And for me, that's really this embodied piece, embodiment work. And then the sovereignty piece of how our wholeness acknowledging wholeness and acknowledging that we are complete as we are. And then we, and then being able to interact with others and move through the world from that place of not needing others to fill us, but more we can choose from this place of wholeness, how we, how we relate to others then.

Amanda Testa (37:12):

Oh, that's so beautiful. Thank you so much. And Sonali, it's such a pleasure to talk to you and I know you've got some fun events coming up and all kinds of great ways to connect. So how can everyone connect with you and find more about what's up?

Sonali Deepika (37:27):

Well, I have my website, www.iamsacred ground.com and that's hosting events and things. And I do want to get up. I can something that I can share, you know, for everyone I don't have yet there, but I also have my Instagram that I'm slowly building slowly but surely. And that's, @Iamsacredgroud.

Amanda Testa (37:48):

Yeah. Beautiful. And she's got some beautiful content there, so make sure to follow her. And I am sacred ground.com. Also her Insta. I am sacred ground. And thank you so much again for joining today. Such a pleasure and thank you all for listening and we will see you next week. Thank you so much for listening to the find your feminine fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at www.amandatesta.com/activate. And we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life.

Speaker 3 (38:36):

You can also join us on Facebook at Find Your Feminine Fire group And if you've enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

This week I'm thrilled to be talking with two of my besties, Rachel Sizemore and Kit Murray Maloney, on the power of Community and Collaboration.

We've been leaning into support with each other, and wanted to expand that in a bigger way.  We've teamed up to create a space for connection, ritual, community, and belonging.  Listen in as we share how the modalities of yoni steaming, breathwork, and pleasure practices have transformed our lives, and how we are coming together to support others in the process.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

If you feel the call to explore this work more deeply, you're invited to join us in Blood Breath and Belonging HERE.

Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a Sex ,Love and Relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex love and relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Hello everyone. And welcome. And I am just beyond lit up today because I am going to be talking with my dear friends and sisters, Rachel Sizemore and Kit Murray Maloney. And we are gathered here today because we are feeling called that, especially in times like this, something that I personally have found, so healing and supportive and I can't get enough of these days is circle community support. And so I know for myself, I am finding new ways to lean into that since it can't always be the way we want it to look right now with COVID, we have to be creative, right? So we are cooking up a delicious, delicious circle, and we are here to share more out that and why we felt called to do this and why, especially now this is the time this is the time to lean in. So welcome. Welcome everyone.

Amanda Testa (01:23):

And so, as we get started, I'd love to just start with, you know, if maybe Kit, if you want to start just sharing a little bit about, about you. And I know if you've been listening to this podcast for awhile, you probably are familiar with, body Rachel and Kit. Cause they've both been on the show and they're dear friends, also very strong advocates for sexuality, for healing, for wholeness. And so we really are very aligned in our missions.

Kit Murray Maloney (01:49):

Thank you so much for that. Yeah. I was thinking, I love this podcast so much I'm an avid listener and I'm an avid participant in many ways. So thank you for having me back and thank you and Rachel for the three of us stepping into this container of Blood breath and belonging and bringing it to life. And so soon. My name is Kit. Um've been in the world of health and wellness for two decades now, and I've been in my own journey of exploration around what that means when it comes to embodiment, sexuality, pleasure, and living in communion with one cycle. And that evolution has taken me on a journey with business ventures as well. So one entrepreneurial activity I've had is all about celebrating women's sexual pleasure for healing and safety and empowerment. And that work then transitioned into a new venture. That's about one year old and she's such a darling and actually it's her birthday on her first circle of blood breath and belongings so we might neet to bring her a little cupcake or something. So Kitara Is that venture. And, um is a venture to support connecting to our cycles through ancient practice of vaginal steaming., An so through Kitara we provide products, information and community around using vaginal steaming to heal our womb space, to drop into connection to the second chackra to that healing and all that, that encompasses, um ch of course is pleasure, which of course facing the negative, if not the very commonality trauma that we hold there and being in that balance of receptivity and release that I think is so beautifully mirrored in our cycles as we walk this earth as many body people. Um, my, my role in this, issupporting the entire container and co-creating with each of you and with all the women who step into Blood, Breath and Belonging that I am leading the blood aspect, ofthis circle and am very honored and delighted to do so.

Amanda Testa (04:00):

Yay. Thank you so much Kit. And now over to you, Rachel Sizemore, Rachel, can you share?

Rachel Sizemore (04:07):

Yes. I'd love to I'm so, so happy to be here. I think I was maybe on like the very first episode I interviewed you, I think.

Amanda Testa (04:14):

Yes. I think you're right. Yeah, you did.

Rachel Sizemore (04:17):

I know that was a really fun interview to do. Yes. So I'm Rachel and aligned with these two lovely ladies in my devotion to the yoni bodied people to sexuality, to expansion, I am a breathwork healer and an embodiment intimacy, mindfulness coach, mentor, being flowing and evolving as we all are. And the piece that I'm going to be bringing to our group is breath work. And as I'm sure we'll, we'll get into these modalities. As, as Kit was sharing, I was like, Ooh, let's talk yoni steaming, can we share our experiences? And we could do the same for breath work. I know we've all practiced a lot of that as well. But the idea being that the breath is our life force, the breath. Literally we cannot survive without in, you know, after a few minutes. And generally we go around breathing shallowly, anxious, tight, and there's a real magic when we invite more oxygen into our bodies, especially when we do it in circle for allowing us to drop in, to feel what needs to be felt to get in touch with our bodies again, to get in touch with our heart. And there's so much play with breath work and especially in circle. And I know that just given the whole energy of Blood Breath, Belonging, we'll also be bringing in delight and enjoyment with, with our experience with the breath. So I'm excited for that as well.

Amanda Testa (05:50):

I'm so thrilled. And you know, one of the things we also talked about is how, especially when things get hard and crazy taking the time to take care of yourself, it's so important. And I know we spoke to this around, you know, wanting something that feels easy and doable and connect you to your aliveness and yourself. And that's why each of us bring a different aspect of embodiment to offer. And it's not like something that you have to do, anything you show up and receive. And however it unfolds is how it needs to be. I think that's what I love about having a practice of taking care of yourself. Sensual self care is I love to call it and I will be leading a pleasure based Sensual Self care practice. So whether that means you show up and you just take a nap, whether that means you show up and you dive a fully into the practice, obviously, you know, the sexuality piece I think is so huge.

Amanda Testa (06:42):

And I think what people sometimes get intimidated by is what that looks like. And what I'm just here to say is everything is always an invitation and there's always options for you to participate at whatever level feels doable for you. And it's really about you showing up and tuning into what you need and making sure you get that for yourself in some way. And I think sometimes even just showing up and being held in the space, you don't even have to do anything and you get so much from it, right? Especially now with all that's going on in the craziness. It's like we have all the things coming up and moving into 2021 is having support and feeling held and feeling like you can just show up and deepen and connect to yourself and that's all you have to do. Or you just show up or, you know, just knowing you can take what you want from it.

Amanda Testa (07:25):

And there's going to be such an opportunity for depth and connection. And I just feel so excited about it. Cause I know for myself, I was wanting something like this, which is why we all three had this calling. And it was so funny. Cause one morning we're like, I've been thinking about this and I drew this card around collaboration and I love what it says. It says collaboration brings more sweetness into my life and into the world. And I love that. And so thrilled to be doing this and to be able to receive and to give and to support one another and the world in so doing.

Rachel Sizemore (07:57):

I love what you're touching on here, Amanda. And it just like even want to tease it out further that like we're so intentionally creating a space for you to connect with you and connect with others. This isn't a place where you need to read or watch videos or catch up or learn. And granted those spaces are great and sometimes we want to learn, but generally we're like maybe in a, in a time of life where we're overconsuming information potentially, and this feels like an offering a circle that's really about, Hey, how do we create loving community and come together in this time? And also each one of our modalities is intentionally going to be held for you to connect in with you. So over this busy time where we're going to have holidays, we're going to have the start of the new year. Generally. It's really easy to be up and, you know, taking care of family and work stuff and getting gifts and all that stuff. And this circle is intended to be a space for you to drop, to pause, to let all of those other concerns fall away and be you be with you And be, be witnessed and witness others in the living space.

Amanda Testa (09:00):

Yes. Okay. Kit, Would you like to add something there as well?

Kit Murray Maloney (09:04):

Oh, I just, I'm loving all of it. I love what we're putting out there and feeling into the group. That's joining us and to expand on what Rachel is saying. You know, we talked a lot about how this is really a container of an experience. And so we've all done many courses and we love that. And you gain so much from that, but this is a group that's coming together to have an individual and shared experience with one another through these three modalities. And it just struck me in talking, the three of us have known each other for a long time now. And there has been a time on each of our paths where we were hesitant, skeptical, nervous, anxious about the very modality that we are now stepping into guiding others through. And so no matter where you are on your awareness of what is breath work, don't I breathe all day?

Kit Murray Maloney (09:56):

What the heck is Yoni steaming? We can get into that a little more detail. And what are these pleasure practices about, you know, what does it mean this nap that I can take or this Jade Egg insertion, you know, that seems like quite a range of possibilities. And so we're also here to hold space for that inquiry and for that curiosity. So I think a thread throughout our years together as individuals and as a triad has been allowing ourselves to follow where these pains of curiosity have been felt even if not, especially at the frustration of our logical minds. So, so if you're listening and this is the invitation is to check in with the ping of curiosity and to allow that to maybe take the driver's seat and this inquiry around whether or not it's the aligned fit for you to join us in this experience.

Amanda Testa (10:56):

You know, one thing that you mentioned that just for some reason, pinged this in me, is that kind of, what is this all about? And, you know, I think for many people out there, and I know many of you listening, there is a connection to a practice that supports you, whatever that may be. And sometimes we just want a space where we can just go practice and I have yet to see the studio exist, which I hopefully will one day, or you can go in and do these types of practices in person, obviously right now with COVID we can't necessarily do that anyway. So this is an opportunity to know, like you would go to the gym, like you would go to a yoga class yet these opportunities for this type of work, it's, it's different. It's a little deeper, but you know, people always ask, well, why, if I have an hour, would I do something like this when I could go to the gym or take a walk or wha tnot, and what I want to share around that, and I would love to, for you to, to share that's what I found in my own experience.

Amanda Testa (11:46):

And in that of my clients and the women that I work with is that there is something about connecting in a group where you have a shared intention that just magnifies it as well as when you do these deeper practices where you're really just connecting with yourself. It's not like you have a specific goal. You're just allowing what is to be, and to process through you is the most rejuvenating healing thing. And so you can, you know, it's not like necessarily where you go and do a specific class that you have to go do the specific things like yes, there's guidance and there's instruction and you get to make it your own, which I think is so beautiful and doing it in a group, just expands the support and the connection and having that feeling like we're not in this alone, right? We're not in this alone.

Amanda Testa (12:29):

We have support. We are around people that have similar goals and dreams and love doing this type of stuff as well. Like that's the thing I love is just being able to do the deeper things, right? The deeper, the stuff that's super fun. So I'd love to hear you to also share your perspective on the embodiment practice and like how this has impacted your life. Like why it feels like such a priority that you make time for and enjoy. It's not like it feels like a, to do, it's like an enjoyment to do.

Rachel Sizemore (12:58):

I can share first. Gosh, embodiment practice circling. It's also good. So I'm the breath work healer. And, and I've been on my breathwork journey for years now and done a daily practice for a long time taken weeks off from my practice. And currently I've been practicing every day and the breath work has been keeping me sane and healthy at moments where like where I live right now, it's hard to get vegetables I'm living in Mexico currently. It's the summer. It's a little bit tricky. So like other parts of my health routine are challenging right now, but breathwork has been this constant. And it, it, as I said, just taps me into my body, to my aliveness, like quiets. My extremely busy mind seems to never shut up except for when I'm doing or after breath work. Not that it always works by the way, mind's are pretty intense, but, but so the practice of doing the breath has been so beautiful and doing it in circle and doing it on my own.

Rachel Sizemore (13:53):

And I, and I want to offer that space for you to experience that. And I will admit to doing very few self-pleasure practices lately, not none but very few. And I have not yni steamed. I have not steamed my yoni since June since I moved to Mexico. So I actually would have been end of may. And these are two practices that I love that have been hugely healing for me, connecting with my Yoni, steaming, pleasure, all of it. And I find it to be challenging to do on my own. And probably most of you listening can relate because we have seasons with things and I don't judge or blame myself for that. But I'm really excited for having this space held because there is something really powerful about having a space holder, a healer who's going to hold the energetic container for you to show up to, for you to be loving to yourself, for you to be conscious. These are the things that we're going to do as, as the healers in space.

Rachel Sizemore (14:52):

And I say, healer is a space holder. So it's like being in that dance for the, I have a regular practice and yeah, like I, I embody and also like I need these kind of communal spaces and to be led in the areas where I have maybe more resistance or just have taken a pause and I'm looking forward to starting again.

Amanda Testa (15:13):

Thanks Rachel.

Kit Murray Maloney (15:14):

Yeah, I too was cognizant around today in preparation for gathering to speak to this around just how natural the resistance to healing is. And so these modalities, all three of them have been the conduits for my greatest healing. And I am a quote unquote trained kind of what I was gonna say, expert. That's just sounding odd, but I'm trained in all three of them, right?

Kit Murray Maloney (15:46):

And some other ones and just feeling how amazing it will be as Rachel saying, to be held by somebody else. Who's, who's in the energetic of that healing practice at this time. And it is all fluid. And for me, Yoni, steaming is a medicine I'm putting out into the world and that carries an energetic with it. That's incredibly important for me at this time in my life breath work and pleasure practices have, as I say, also been a result of my greatest healing. And yet there's some sort of resistance thats happening because I'm in resistance to both, even as I dance with them and I incorporate them in when I can and all the rest of it. But when Amanda reached out to Rachel and, I just, I think a couple of days ago, cause when the alignment happens, things just fall into place so quickly that I was such a yes, to being part of the circle, part of the experience in each facets of it because I not in a, Oh right.

Kit Murray Maloney (16:50):

I need to get back into myself, pleasure machine, Oh shit, breathwork, need to do it,but I haven't done it. Those flashed through my mind, but it was really more of a like, Oh yes, I just want to come and be supported in this devotion and have pre carved out this space to be with other women who are also connecting to themselves in this deep, deep way that doesn't have this linear answer of where were you before? And now what has, have you quote, unquote achieved after like maybe going to the gym might do, if you're wearing a watch that calculates your steps taken and calories burned and such, and this is just such a different invitation one in which that I certainly am craving and that we're calling in the others who are craving the intimacy that can happen through looking at the resistance and thinking, yeah, I see you. And I do know that this is really where my heart is leading me towards and that's does matter. And that's usually my journey sort of back to and around the practices that meant so much to me.

Amanda Testa (17:57):

Yeah. And I also will say to that too. I think what you mentioned around the resistance is so, so key. Cause we all have that. And also, you know, when we were talking about who we envision here, it's exactly, as you say, it's just, you want to come and deepen your practice. You wants to come and just be in celebrate being, you know, together with other people and to really feel that holding and know that going to show up exactly as you are. And that's awesome. And it's not going to be overwhelming. You know, it's about three times a month. So super easy and doable, especially now with all that's going on. As you mentioned, Rachel too, with all the, sometimes it seems like there's a lot happening around this time of year. Yet making this time for yourself will help have you feel supported.

Amanda Testa (18:40):

And the more we have that stronger base of support, the more resourced we are, so to speak, then the more we can handle the waves that come, the more we can support the people we love, the more that we have, right. The more capacity. So I think that to feel so key right now, because especially with all this going on, we need to feel resourced. We need to take care of ourselves and it doesn't have to be a hard thing. Like you mentioned, it's not like I haven't done this and I need to do it. It's more like, yeah, this is an invitation to show up for myself and have accountability in that. And that feels really good. Yeah. Yeah. And feel free to, to share too. Cause I want this to be kind of a conversation because this is, you know, it's fun. We were just laughing so hard before we even started. Like, there's also fun too.

Kit Murray Maloney (19:33):

It's not serious. I mean, I I'm. So with you, I think that what comes through for me with these practices in particular is the inevitable mind game of, is there time? Is this going to matter enough? And every single time it is wonderful and expansive. And that doesn't mean that there's always a direct, you know, we're probably the first people to say, there's not a certainty to any experience and any practice, whether it's yoga, running, taking a bath, all these things that feel really good and can have these huge impacts on your life. It doesn't happen every time. So I'm not like making a guarantee. What I do feel is, is the truth for me is that when we allow ourselves to drop into our body, there's an expansion and that expansion ripples through, into my days and that shifts my whole dynamic and the way I walked through how I treatt myself and how I treat the people around me.

Kit Murray Maloney (20:39):

And when I hear myself say these words, it's like, what is more important than all of that? So, yeah. And I think I don't want to be vague either. And when I say like, these are the biggest healing modalities in my life, like I think I would like to invite some more specificity to that dialogue. I mean, these are the practices that I credit with healing decades long held sexual trauma and abuse with healing my relationship, very problematic attached relationship to alcohol for decades. With healing, self forgiveness around a termination of a pregnancy, I mean big life things. I look to these practices and feel and embodied. Thank you. So as much as it is wonderful and beautiful and delightful is the deep fucking work that we're talking about as well.

Rachel Sizemore (21:35):

And so true Kit, thank you so much for sharing those things. And I think Amanda and I both have our list of things, these practicesheal and move and, and yeah, I mean, there's, there's been moments for me where, where I've cried over my, you know, over my Yoni steaming pot, or I've, I've felt completely numb through a pleasure practice and those, those moments could definitely happen. And I think this is like a beautiful moment maybe to talk a little bit more about the modality specifically, cause I know certainly for self pleasure, but definitely for Yoni steaming before I started was like, wait, wait, wait, tell me again, hold on. I'm going to need a third rundown. And it was very for me, high activation energy to start because it feels very, and I don't know if you guys have talked about it on the podcast already, but I think dropping in a little bit on it because it is a little bit new and different or not new as you might explain, but new in our, in our collective consciousness right now. And it's just so freaking Epic.

Amanda Testa (22:33):

Right. I think that's a good idea. And maybe, you know, each one of us could just take a few minutes to share about what the modality is and what it looks like. Right. So people know what they're walking into and how it can support them and why it's such a powerful practice. So yeah. Kit go for it.

Kit Murray Maloney (22:51):

Great. Well, all of this will be available Amanda's website as well, but just to drop you into, we are Blood Breath and Belonging is going to be a three month container of a sisterhood circle experience that allows us to connect with an opening call at the end of October, a closing call at the end of January. And in between there will be a total of nine calls, three on each of our practices. So I'll do three calls that really focus on uterine and menstrual health. And there'll be a Yoni steam practice. And then Rachel is going to do three breathwork sessions. And Amanda will do three self-pleasure sensual sexuality practices.

Kit Murray Maloney (23:39):

As Rachel gave a not to, it's an ancient practice. It goes back to all lands on this earth. And therefore, if you go far enough back, it is part of all of our bloodlines that said, and the revival of Yoni steaming that's happening in the United States right now, I give great credit and reference to indigenous peoples and black women and African American folks for being in the leadership of that revival. There are people particularly in indigenous communities who have an immediate connection to their bloodlines. So there's no lost connection. There's no separation between for me. I have to go back to a great, great, great, great, great grandmother ancestry. For others, it's their mother. They learn to steam through their mother and there hasn't been that, that disconnection. And what is, what does is yoni steaming? In it's simplest form is sitting over some heated water and so that's all you would need is a steam pot, stainless steel pot.

Kit Murray Maloney (24:44):

Anything will do so long as it just doesn't have any chemicals in it and water. And so with that, you sit over the heated water and you drop into the presence with your yoni, with the whole area of your uterus, your vulva, and your vaginal canal with intentional release and gratitude for this part of our body. And I was drawn to it first for the physical benefits for the support of one's cycle. I honestly didn't even know that I really had any issue with my cycle. I thought that mild cramps, most months and severe cramps, maybe two or three times a year were just normal actually felt lucky, but that was sort of quote unquote All I had up with my cycle definitely thought that Brown blood before and after it was completely normal. And then I went to a Yoni steam healer a few years ago and truly out of curiosity had no idea what I was getting into and had this huge emotional breakthrough and that like, Whoa, this is a medicine modality that I need to explore in a lot more depth.

Kit Murray Maloney (25:54):

And since then I've done lots of trainings and a variety of different experiences, how it's led by wonderful women and really have seen the ways in which people are drawn to the practice. Usually through one vertical, the physical, the emotional, the spiritual, and then quickly see benefits in all three. And so we, in our time together for the three yoni steam practices, we'll be doing a Yoni steam, and we may be able to where you may want to further support that steam through buying some aligned herbs and even a steam seat. I would definitely help you with that. Should you choose to buy it from Kitara? And I've been thinking about this, we haven't talked about this, but I would like to offer everybody who joined us an online consultation. So I know where you're at in your journey with your cycle, because yoni steaming is a beautiful practice for people of any age.

Kit Murray Maloney (26:52):

And so it's not just for bleeding women. There are postmenopausal women who are steamin and having these incredible, incredible experiences, particularly around remembrance and particularly around this invitation to be deeply connected. And in reverence to this part of our body, even when our culture says for outrageous reasons that it's somehow no longer important and we will steam. And there's a likelihood that some folks on the call won't actually steam because there are some Contra indications, one being while bleeding, you are not wanting to steam while you're actually menstruating. So if it happens that one of our calls is when you're bleeding, that's totally cool. I've been to and circles where I've been Contra indicated and that time together we'll have 75 minutes for each of these practices will be a time that's really held in juicy delightful, sisterhood around connecting to our womb space.

Kit Murray Maloney (27:52):

And so we will be fluid with it, but there will be music and, and prayer and intention and sharing and consultation with me and questions around anything that's coming up is very welcome in our time together, we probably won't steam for longer than 15 minutes, which is the recommended time for most folks. Some folks will be recommended to steam for longer, but some folks won't. So we don't want to see you for too long for anybody. So all to say that it's an ancient practice, it's a wonderful practice. I'm so grateful to it's revival. And it's something that if you are feeling the pings toward, I will guide you through the how to questions that your mind is inevitably racing on. Now through the course of this experience that we have together, and there's plenty of time, purposely from signing up to the first yoni steam gathering, we'll have to allow for that support to come through and make sure that if you do want extra products, you have them in time and all of that will be nurtured and you really don't have to worry about it.

Kit Murray Maloney (28:59):

I've definitely got you on all of those questions that are circling through. And just a final note, I just want to speak to this time of year. One of the things that feels really powerful to me about blood breath and bones is that there's something really rich around this time of year. We're going from autumn into winter. This is the pre menstruation, the luteal time in the way in which that the seasons mirror our cycles, and we're going into the winter, the blood time, the menstrration season. And there is a way in which women's bodies open and bleeding times to the receptivity of ancestral messages. And so when I talk about this being a spiritual practice, that is one way in which I have felt it. I have received this connection to my, my grandmother's, my great grandmothers. Great, great, great grandmothers who I haven't technically known that I have felt through this journey. And I've really been able to deepen into the web of the connectivity amongst all women, amongst all bleeding people. And so I will take a positive, the other modalities can go, know I've got you. We can jam on yoni steaming, we will have epic experiences with yoni steaming, and don't worry about all the Q&As. It's really not that complicated. And I'm certified and trained to guide you.

Amanda Testa (30:25):

Thank you so much. And we'll also just FYI in a couple of times we mentioned the website, but there's going to be a lot of information there too. And so we'll share that at the end, but how you can find out more, but yes, Rachel share more about breathwork.

Rachel Sizemore (30:36):

I just feel inspired to one of the things you said, kit, thank you for sharing. All of that is around like most people come for one thing and then receive more and just sharing quickly. That is basically what happened to me. I've had a lot of issues of my cycle, really terrible cramps. I'd say it was like the main reason that I really want to start steaming. And what ended up happening was like a beautiful piece of my trauma healing, where on my journey with trauma and sexual healing, I dealt with a lot of numbness, a lot of pain in my yoni and a lack of sexual desire.

Rachel Sizemore (31:09):

And I really felt like, and I went to Yoni steaming to work on my cramps, but you know, it's all really second chakra. . And Yoni steaming really was an integral piece of healing, feeling my numbness, and like feeling, bringing sensation back to my Yoni. So as intimidating as it was to start, I'm so grateful that I did it. And of course, what you speak to about ancestral and spiritual connections. Like there's so many layers as there are to all these practices, but I just wanted to share that bit about my own yoni steaming journey.

Amanda Testa (31:39):

I'll just share it too with that. It just feels so amazing as well. Just the whole process. It's so gentle. And I did just one other thing I wanted to point out for anyone who's listening is like, well, I don't bleed, or I don't have my uterus anymore. You totally can still do all these practices. There's energetic, a very powerful, energetic space there. And there's still so many cycles that as women, we are connected to, even if we're not bleeding, so just know it's still, you know, it's still, it's perfect for you as well. Yeah. All right, Rachel.

Rachel Sizemore (32:07):

Yes, absolutely love that for all of these practices. So breath work again. Can, can give us a range. All of these practices can have us a range of experiences can meet us on the physical, emotional, mental, spiritual levels. One of the reasons why I find breath to be particularly powerful medicine right now is it's very helpful for anxiety and depression, which I think is in the field pretty heavily right now, as we're going into election season. And as we're going into this, you know, this whole year with 2020, and COVID just waves of bigness of intensity that we're moving through and breath work is a really powerful modality for feeling the things that we're stuffing down when we're busy, when we're trying to get by, we don't necessarily take the time to feel. Like, Oh, it hurts my heart that this is happening or that this person's been sick or that I've been lonely or whatever.

Rachel Sizemore (33:01):

So all of these modalities are great place to feel your feelings, but breathwork is a particularly beautiful space for that. So I'm really excited for that piece to like help us work through this holiday season, like supporting the bits that feel anxious, that feel depressed, that are struggling with how hard this time has been. Breathwork is really a space where we can like just tenderly hold ourselves in those feelings, which I love. And what I love about it too, is the breath ,does the work it's it's so it's, it's probably just, I think maybe the, the, the good entry point, which is why it's week one or week two, it's the first practice, because all you have to do is lay there and breathe. And however much oxygen you can bring in the breath will literally do the work for you. Your spirit, your breath, your body will show you what's ready to be felt what's ready to be moved. What more aliveness you can invite in. So it's, it can be simple in that way. We will not call it easy. And also, you know, it's called breathwork. There will be at least one moment you curse my existence, probably multiple, but then mostly at the end, you'll think the, I think,

Amanda Testa (34:05):

Oh yes. Oh my goodness. I love you. And Rachel is the most amazing breathwork facilitator as well. I love her classes and I just want to reflect too with what you said about how healing it can be like so much, we're not even aware of. And I like that's, what's so amazing about breath work is you don't have to go into any story. You don't have to, you know, you just allow your body, this gentle opportunity to release and to feel and to move it through and bring in like that fresh breath and that fresh energy to where it needs to go. It's amazing. And then nine times out of 10 people at the end of the session will be like, Oh my God, I feel so good. It's like everything. The world is more alive. You know, all those things. Yeah.

Rachel Sizemore (34:45):

I mean, I've been on my breathwork journey. I dunno for like about five years now. And I, I haven't been, I don't know. I didn't draw the map. I don't know how I got here, but I know for sure, if you breathe more, you will heal. If you breed more, you will love more. If you breed more, you will be happier. It may take five years and they do five minutes. I don't know your soul gets to decide that, but I know without a doubt, if you breathe more, you will love more. If you breath more, there will be more joy. And so wherever you are in that is beautiful.

Amanda Testa (35:16):

And I love how you mentioned that too. Like, you'll feel more love, you'll have more joy. And at the end of the day, I feel like that's what the invitation for all of this is, is a deeper connection to love a deeper connection to how we are all connected and how, you know, at the end of the day, we can find pleasure in whatever it is that we're experiencing, all the emotions, whatever. There's an opportunity to transmute that and to really fully experiencing it in a way that feels supportive, even when it doesn't look like it sometimes. So, I mean, I think that's too, what I love about the pleasure practice. And, specifically for this program, I'm going to be offering Jade Egg sessions, which, that might seem intimidating, but just know you don't even have to have a Jade egg. You don't have to use an egg, you can just do the practices energetically, like really this is a meet you where you are type of thing.

Amanda Testa (36:02):

And so know, for those of you out there who have maybe a Jade egg and they're like, Oh, I'm so excited to deepen my practice, I don't even know what to do with it. So I am excited to learn, or maybe you want one. And again, there's all that information on the website. If I don't get one before we start, I can totally help you there. But again, it's that opportunity for you to connect to yourself deeply to honor whatever's present and to invite the possibility of more sensation of more pleasure of more expansion of what's good. And whatever's there to be cool with it and to really be on that journey. And so really what a Jade Egg practice looks like. It's honestly, so it's a lot of dropping in meditation. There's probably around 20, 30 minutes working with the egg and then, you know, that's and there's integration time.

Amanda Testa (36:47):

So it's really a beautiful practice and people are always wondering like, well, what does it look like? That's kind of a basic overview. And, you know, typically what I hear at the end of a session is so amazing. I've never felt that connected to myself. I love myself in a whole new way or wow. I didn't notice what I didn't notice, or maybe I just had a lot of numbess, and celebrating that, you know, that's really the thing about your sensuality is however it is right in this moment is perfect. So really the intention is for you to celebrate it, celebrate the numbness, celebrate the disconnection, celebrate just that you're showing up and being open to having this communion with yourself, like bareing yourself to yourself being so, you know, this is just for you and no one sees you on these calls. Like it's a webinar style. So you have your privacy, you know, just know that too. It's not like people see you or hear you. No one does. And so there's a lot of privacy and comfort. So just know that too.

Kit Murray Maloney (37:46):

Yeah. We might see you Rachel and mine. You can turn off you camera.

Amanda Testa (37:56):

What I like to invite people to do. It's at the beginning. And at the end, if you want to pop on, we can like open. I can open the panel for everyone to join and then turn it back off. So there's a way to, you know, as much as you want

Kit Murray Maloney (38:07):

I love the way you hold space in these practices, there is a connectivity that I feel like that we're going to be on a webinar. Those words don't translate to (laughing), I wanted to chine in there], it's so much richer, so much connected with people who are on the call live, then what that little sound bite might convey.

Amanda Testa (38:28):

You for pointing that out. I know that sounds, I guess what I mean by that is just that you have your privacy and that's what

Kit Murray Maloney (38:36):

I mean. Yeah, exactly. We're all trying to convey is that we, we hold all of what people are bringing in a really special, intentional and sacred way. So where you come is how you show up is, is health. And so we have already thought through things like concern around being heard or being seen, and there will be so many options for folks to be able to guide themselves through the traces that are best for them. And what came through for me and listening to speaking about breathwork and self-pleasure is that, you know, in some ways I thought we should just call this a consciousness raising group. It's a little seventies ish, then like that's also really what we're doing. And we're just using these practices that have meant so much to us as a way to facilitate our consciousness rasing. And so that's something that is just so juxtaposed to so many of our other self care practices in our culture.

Kit Murray Maloney (39:41):

Right now, these are integrated with intentionally looking. Now I'm going to go into this breath work space with, in devotion to, you know, exploring why in such a cranky mood right now. You know what I mean? It can be something that simple and then having it be unearthed something way deeper than we just did not have awareness of. And same goes with self-pleasure same goes with Yoni steaming. These are practices in which we do not need, but can, and often do receive messages that it's time for us to expand or shift in ways we just had no awareness of before going into them. And that's one of the ways in which I think they're so powerful.

Amanda Testa (40:26):

I love that. And I think too, you know, one of the things we talked about is how really the blood breath and belonging piece, why we came up with that name is because these are all such integral pieces. And as you know, Vulva bodied people, we have this opportunity to use our bodies as a creative, you know, as a creative force. And so, however that looks for you, but I truly believe the more we connect and, and feel comfortable and whole in our own bodies, the easier it is to let that expand. And so it's an opportunity to tap into that and I feel the more we can awaken and own and these parts of ourselves that have been so shamed and stunted forever, that the more where we're free to shine and be vibrant and outrageous and all the things that were meant to be right, and to stand up for what we believe in. And I love to say that awakened pussies smash the patriarchy because they do. And that's like, yes, we want that. We have power and we can cultivate it in a way that feels good and doable. And it's so fun. Yeah. Go ahead. Rachel.

Rachel Sizemore (41:30):

I just wanted to name one thing too, just from my, with experiened of doing self-pleasure practices in group settings and as a community, just as we're getting energized about the pussies taking down the patriarchy and talking about the parts of us that are shamed, that feel shame and that are shamed in our culture. For sure. For me, it was an edge, even being a webinar's style to like be on have my headset, have Amanda like guiding me through touching myself sensually, I was like, like looking around is, is the priest going to pop out and wagged his finger at me, Catholic upbringing? Here it is. Right. So like, just naming that I had discomfort, I had shame, I had this piece. That's like, am I allowed to do this? And it came in and out, like we I've done many practices with you virtually Amanda and in her. So Epic and wonderful. And there'd be days where the shame was present and I didn't have much pleasure and there'll be days where I was like, Oh, I'm amazing.

Rachel Sizemore (42:30):

And I felt so embodied and great, but just, I think the more we can name it and you were alluding to it already, Amanda, that like it exists in the field. This are, we allowed to, to have pleasure where other people are kind of in the space, you know, as we've said, it will be private. You won't be seen, but you know, there's a group component to it and it's like, yes, we're allowed. And it's actually awesome, secret = It's amazing. If you can allow yourself to play to, to just tiptoe in and, and be in group energetic pleasurable space. It's, it's great. I mean, of course your body, you may experience numbness. You may experience pain, but as Amanda saying, she holds that like an invitation to hold accept, even enjoy whatever part of your experience you're on. And as we're all sitting in the frequency of all of you as welcome, whatever your experience is, is so beautiful.

Rachel Sizemore (43:20):

You can ride that the group energy can maybe help you hold yourself in new ways and experience new things. It's like, there's actually something to the group alchemy in all of these practices. And specifically in group pleasure practices.,

Amanda Testa (43:33):

I totally agree there because I think part of it, it helps to heal those shame pieces. It's like, what if our culture celebrated you and your full orgasmic pleasure and encouraged that and said, yes, yes, allow yourself enjoy it. Surrender even more. It is so good, you know, our culture doesn't teach us that. So we have to be, we have to reteach ourselves because it's, it's a memory that we all have access to. We just have to dust off the layers of conditioning oftentimes. And so these practices are a beautiful way. Like all of them are such a beautiful way to reconnect to your original essence, that blueprint of your vibrancy. That's already there. Yeah. Go ahead Kit.

Kit Murray Maloney (44:12):

It's intentional thatWe're hosting these as live calls together. Even if not, especially the pleasure onens, right. I love how Rachel is like "secret. It's amazing" I wish you could see her the way she is smiling. It totally. And it is a secret, you know, it is not something that's wildly discussed or maybe not even one body. And I do share like the first time I had Amanda lead this group that I was in as like, even though I had scheduled, it asked for it, there were like a dozen women showed up and it was incredible as, as it always is. Just what a paradigm shift to gather for these practices together, live in community with one another. This is the type of stuff that just like not only turns me on, but just gives me great hope for the direction in which we can take ourselves in these otherwise really challenging and struggling times

Amanda Testa (45:19):

It's so funny, an inquiry I was given today. It was have to read it again so I can remember exactly how it went, but it was a what, small, doable way. What's small doable things create a feeling of pleasurable connection. Can you bring in? And, and so it was funny. Cause one of the things I realized with COVID then I'm really missing is being around a lot of people, you know, rubbing up a lot, a lot of against a lot of other different bodies, being at concerts, doing all the things, you know, running naked down the beach with all my witchy sisters, like all the things that we can't do right now, as easily as we once could. And so I think that's why I just am so thrilled to have this togetherness. Right. And it feels really good. So with that being said, is there anything else that either of you would like to add before we close Kit, maybe you want to share the things that you shared, like what you were talking about in the beginning. Like here's what I want

Kit Murray Maloney (46:11):

Because I also, I feel that now, so, in feeling into this, we wanted to make sure we were aligned and intentional around how we wanted folks to feel when they leave our practices. And at the end of January, and these three things came really clearly to me and they're present with me right now, cause this is after after this is how I feel after having conversations like this, which is that women are freaking amazing. And when we come together and I mean all women to be inclusive of feminine identified people and you, anybody folks and this feminine energy and intentionality of what we're creating and when we come together and when they're just invitations and collaborations, it flows in with this clicking into place, ease. And this magnificence that I have found abundant when it comes with circling with women. And I find it a specialnessn being with women that I'm reminded that by being with women in a way that I haven't found elsewhere. And so that is one of the things that I can see us all leaving just like Holy smokes, women are incredible. And then for us also to really be tapped into the remeberance and truth that our bodies are absolutely Incredible, magnificent, divine, foundational aspects of our experience in this lifetime and that they are gifts for us to explore and celebrate and their magnificence just knows no bounds. And I feel that in this conversation, just in exploring these three modalities, it's wild like, we bleed we breathe we orgasm. Like these are incredible things that we get to experience by deep in human form right now. And we get to celebrate that and that is such a joyous thing. And then finally that because of all of this, this inner knowing this ability to trust and surrender into the truth that we simultaneously don't know shit, and we know that things are going to be okay. That when we come back into ourselves and when we do that in community with women, we can sit with our backs up straight and rest on the truth that this world is going to be. Okay. And that's everything right now. So

Amanda Testa (48:39):

Thank you so much Kit. Yeah. feel that so deeply. Gosh, Rachel, did you have any, any last words?

Rachel Sizemore (48:47):

Yeah, the last thing I'll say, thank you for sharing those Kit, feel so good is just, just to, just to drop us all into like, if this is for you, you know, you know, and you are so, so welcome, just naming that you might feel a little fear or shame or a curiosity that's bordering on is, ah, I don't know. Or, you know, you may find that that one practice isn't right and perfect fit in this moment. And, and, and we just want to hold all of that. Any shame you have is welcome. Any fear, any excitement, any curiosity, any trepidation, and invite you to really come back to your heart and just check in, Hey, is this for you? Are you meant to be here with us? And if you are, we're so happy to have you join and really want you to know that like all of you is welcome. All of you is loved. All of you is held wherever you are on the journey with any or all of these practices. This space is for those who are, who are called to be here. And, and you're so, so welcome and so loved wherever, wherever you are.

Amanda Testa (49:54):

Yes. Thank you so much, Rachel. Well, I'm so thrilled and I just have to say too, one of the things, sometimes I think that this type of work can give me, which I mentioned earlier, it's kind of like this, it's like this magical cloak I can put on and go out into my world with like these special secrets and connected, connected to my own magic and resourcefulness and resilience. And so then I have this magical cloak that I go out into my world into my day and all the things that come at me don't hit as hard, or I have better resilience to like move through them. And I just think that is a needed thing right now. So for all of you listening, yes. If you feel a call, this is calling your name or you're curious, then you can find more. You can go to www.Amandatesta.com/bbb for blood breath and belonging.

Amanda Testa (50:42):

So three B's and there you can find all the info and it's going to be starting on October 29th. So again, we would love to have you, and yet just as well to know, like these practices are available to you and any time that you want to learn more, if now's not, it there's always time. So just know this invitation is now because we feel this is so needed. And so, yeah. Thank you all for listening and thank you so much, Rachel and Kit, and two you'll find, if you want to find out more about Rachel and Kit, all that information will to be on the website. Www.Rachelsizemore.Com is how you can find Rachel. She also has a lovely podcast called Ripen and Kit. You can find at www.kitaralove.com So that's how, if you want to find out more about all of us, you can do that and we will hopefully see you in the circle. And thank you all. Talk to you next week.

Amanda Testa (51:40):

Thank you so much for listening to the Find your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me www.amandatesta.com/activate, And we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook and the group find your feminine fire group. And if you've enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

Curious how circadian rhythm and inflammation affect breast health?  If you’re looking to increase wellness and vitality in your breasts and beyond, tune in as I’m talking with Dr. Felice Gersh,  an award-winning physician, a rare combination of a Board-Certified OB/GYN who is also fellowship trained and Board Certified in Integrative Medicine.  She is also the bestselling author of PCOS SOS: A Gynecologist's Lifeline to Naturally Restore Your Rhythms, Hormones and Happiness. 

Tune in to discover how important our circadian rhythm is and how we get "off the beat", and some simple tips to "get back on the beat" , as well as you will discover how inflammation affects breast health and what to do if you've been told you have dense breast tissue.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(Complete transcript below)

I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Gersh for my special 21 Days of Delicious Breast Care Summit last year, and her interview was so powerful I wanted to share it again, as she brilliantly shares some important tips to decrease inflammation in our bodies, honor our natural rhythms, and support the health of not only our breasts but our entire bodies.  As October is breast cancer awareness month, it felt timely to share. 

Felice L. Gersh, M.D. is a rare combination of a Board Certified OB/GYN who is also fellowship trained in Integrative Medicine at the University of Arizona School of Medicine. Her career has evolved over the years into one which utilizes the most cutting-edge and high-tech diagnostic testing, while incorporating science-based therapies – from the herbal to the surgical – to assist in the healing process.

Find out more about Dr. Gersh and her book HERE.

Follow her on Instagram HERE.

Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!

If you would like to learn more about how sensual self care can transform your life, Schedule a free consult HERE.

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a Sex Love and Relationship coach. And in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex love and relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome. Hello everyone. And welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am so thrilled today to be talking with Dr. Felice Gersh, and we're going to be diving into circadian rhythm and inflammation, how that affects our breast tissue. So if you're looking to increase wellness and vitality in your breasts and beyond tune-in, as we dive in, and I'm so thrilled to have Dr. Gersh here today, she is an award winning physician, as well as a rare combination of a double board certified OB GYN, who is also fellowship trained and board certified in integrative medicine. So with so many years of great wisdom to draw from= and as well as being, you know, yearly award winning as a top physician. So welcome Dr. Gersh. Thank you so much for being here today.

Dr. Felice Gersh (01:07):

Well, I'm so happy to be here and to talk about this topic, which is so critically important to every woman and so much on her mind, the whole concept of how to optimize the health of her breasts. Yeah.

Amanda Testa (01:19):

Yes. Thank you. And I feel like, you know, it's not something women think about a lot, but I do feel like it's just a very important issue, especially now that it's breast cancer awareness month, just to bring attention to this, not just this month, but always so. And I know that you're really dedicated to women and focusing on women's health as well as kind of really having that unique emphasis on how our heart rhythms and our hormones affect our health overall. But I'd love to just have you start with sharing a little bit about, you know, why you're so passionate about this work. That you do.

Dr. Felice Gersh (01:51):

Well it's, it is a very much of a passion for me. It all began way back when I was a kid actually, and my parents sort of steered me into a direction that I had three choices for a career, I could be, it had to be something, a service, something that would actually help people. So I could be a teacher or a lawyer cause they felt they were actually lawyers. They felt they actually helped people a lot or a doctor. And I was very good in math and science and I thought, well, this is really what I want to do. And I started volunteering at the local children's hospital and I loved arts and crafts. So I did arts and crafts with the children who were hospitalized and it just made my heart sing to see children smile and getting better.

Dr. Felice Gersh (02:37):

And then I, when I went to medical school and I thought about what kind of a career would really suit me, I just fell in love with OB GYN. I felt it had it all. It had excitement, drama romance was like every, you know, you had your adrenaline rushes when you went in to dash to make a delivery and you also have consistency of care. So you can see women for decades and you would take care of them often as their primary care doctor. And then of course you could do high tech surgery. So it really had everything that I wanted in a career. And over the years, I've really sort of morphed. So about, almost like about a decade ago, it was my time to give up obstetrics and I'd love doing it. And then after that, I felt so lost because I had so much circadian rhythm dysfunction from all those middle of the night deliveries.

Dr. Felice Gersh (03:24):

I just couldn't from my own health, continue doing it for longer after that point. And that was what turned me really down the path towards integrative medicine, looking for ways to optimize women's health beyond doing things like surgery, which I was very good at, but I didn't want to do end stage disease care. I wanted to prevent the need for surgery, not just do surgery. And I knew that there had to be more than a birth control pill as a treatment because that seemed to be the go to for everything. So it led me here today with, with you looking and helping to explore with other women, how to really live the life of a healthy woman, which really doesn't get enough attention because we live in a very challenging world. And so that's what I'm here for to help women to really optimize their health.

Amanda Testa (04:13):

And I love that integrative approach because I think, you know, so often we have everything so segmented. And so, you know, as, as all these years of working with women and, you know, especially regarding our, our rhythms and things of that nature, I'm curious how, you know, when it comes to breast health, what are some things that we can do to really optimize that? Not only just obviously for our breasts, but in general?

Dr. Felice Gersh (04:37):

Well, that is exactly the way I look at it. The breasts are not a separate part of the body. In fact, you just, like you mentioned everything in the body is a whole, so, and in a way that's good in a way it's bad, depending on how you look at it. So if you do something that's good for your brain and your heart, it's going to be good for your breasts. On the other hand, if you do things that are bad for your brain and your heart, they're also going to be bad for your breasts. So what we have to look at is the female as a whole. So we are amazing creatures. We're rhythmic in so many ways. We have our circadian rhythm, which is the 24 hour rhythm. But as women in the reproductive years, we also have lunar rhythms, so beautiful dance that we have with the moon.

Dr. Felice Gersh (05:19):

And we have the seasonal rhythms as well. And then we have rhythms that are called ultradian rhythm. So these are like pulsating with them throughout the day where we have pulses of hormones and different signaling agents that vary throughout the day. So nothing in our bodies is static. So it's really foundational to know that everything is sort of in a flux, in a beautiful rhythm, but in our lives. Now we are. So they're so disrupted our beautiful rhythms. And so the price is to be paid in virtually every system of our body and the breasts are very vulnerable. So we're seeing an, you know, an escalating amount of breast cancer in both the premenopausal, which is really increasing premenopausal, breast cancer, and post-menopausal breast cancer, as well as women sort of lose their, their rhythms with age and with environmental toxins. And with our loss of our alignment with our, our day, you know, that we're seeing too much light, we're going to bed at the wrong time or eating without any kind of rhythm. We're just many people have some sort of caloric drinks sitting on their desk and they're sipping all day long. So essentially there's no rhythm to their eating. And so we need to go back to really fundamentals, to get in alignment with the beautiful rhythms that we were born to, to be living with. And now we're living against,

Amanda Testa (06:43):

And I'm curious what some of the main, you know, symptoms that you see when our rhythms are so disrupted, what are some, some things that women may notice is going on that they can be like, Hmm, I am feeling this way.

Dr. Felice Gersh (06:54):

When you have a disconnect, a disruption of your rhythms, you will have what I call metabolic chaos. Essentially. Every organ in our body works in conjunction with every other organ. It's a beautiful synergy. And of course the brain is very circadian and we have like a totally different brain in the day and in the night. So if we look at our brain to begin with starting at the top, when we are misaligned with our rhythms, our brain is not going to work, right. And we will have brain fog. We will have mood problems, we'll have depression, anxiety, and sleep problems. So we'll, we won't be able to sleep properly. So our brain is just clearly not going to be optimally functioning when we do not have proper rhythm. And if we jumped down to the liver, which is the metabolic powerhouse of the body, when the liver is off it,s going to go into a state of inflammation.

Dr. Felice Gersh (07:49):

And we know that inflammation in the liver can ultimately lead to fatty liver, which is now an epidemic. Some people estimate over a third of people, maybe close to a half, have some degree of fatty liver. And when you have this abnormal fat deposition, the liver, the liver starts to do things at normally unrelated to what the body needs. So we can do what we call uncontrolled gluconeogenesis, where it's just pouring out sugar and it can pour out fat triglycerides. And of course that can lead to cardiovascular disease, metabolic problems like diabetes and prediabetes, which are very prevalent in women who are living off the beat, as I say, so you're going to have brain fog. You're going to have mood problems, sleep problems. You're going to be fatigue. And then you're going to have increased risk of insulin resistance. And of course, when you have high levels of insulin that causes fat deposition.

Dr. Felice Gersh (08:43):

So then you have weight problems. So you can't lose weight. You can't have high insulin and high sugar and simultaneously be losing weight. So then, and the weight tends to go to the middle. So you get the infamous belly fat. So you can see where this is heading. And then when you have chronic end up getting gut inflammation, because it turns out that everything in our GI tract is very rhythmic. We have a special nervous system of our gut called the enteric nervous system. That's why some people say our gut is like our second brain. And that is very, to say the least rhythmic, right? We should have the gut doing things in the day and not at night. So people who have to go to the bathroom all night long, whether it's actually for urination or have bowel movement, that's really wrong. That's a circadian rhythm problem because our bladders should not still at night and our gut should be quiet at night.

Dr. Felice Gersh (09:38):

And we should be doing everything with the rhythm of our guts. And as well, we have bacteria in our gut, our little micros, our gut microbiomes, and they have clock genes too. It turns out every living creature on earth has clock genes, cloth genes are what, keep everything moving on the beat. And they don't know what time of day it is except by when you eat. And so if you're eating all day long, if you're eating late at night, you're going to have major circadian rhythm dysfunction in your guts. And that can increase more liver inflammation, irritable bowel syndrome. And so much of our immune system resides right around our gut. So then you get the wrong bacteria. They make what are called endotoxins, and then you don't have the proper mucus protectant. And then you get impaired barrier function or leaky gut. And these toxins go right through, into our own inside of our body.

Dr. Felice Gersh (10:36):

Really immune system is, and the immune system is like, Oh my gosh, invaders. And they explode with inflammation. Then you have systemic inflammation, which further drives insulin resistance. And the inflammatory cytokines go into our brain, creating more inflammation in our brain. And all of this is happening in our breasts as well with the inflammation. And then you have breast inflammation. So when you have a state of chronic inflammation that can lead to DNA breakage, and that can lead to cancer. So all of this leads ultimately to a state of uncontrolled insulin to try to counter the uncontrolled blood sugar and all this chronic inflammation and the immune system is also circadian. So you're also going to have a disrupted immune system as well. So it's not going to be optimally functioning either. So you can see how really the circadian rhythm and staying on the beat for that's for the 24 hour rotation of the earth is critical to every single function in the body. And this has just been completely ignored. But of course, we didn't even know that we had a circadian rhythm. We didn't know we had a clock genes or a master clock in our head until only about twenty years ago. So we didn't, we had no clue that any of this was really important. We just knew that people who worked odd hours or stayed up late at night or ate randomly, they just didn't really feel well. But we didn't really, we didn't put all the pieces of the puzzle together until very, very recently.

Amanda Testa (12:08):

Yeah. And I'm curious, what are some things? So if we wanted to move from being off the beat to getting back onb the beat, how, what can we do?

Dr. Felice Gersh (12:18):

There's so much we can do ,That you should start with is eating to the beat. So that means that you should have breakfast. I know that that's sort of become fashionable now to fast through breakfast, but that actually is not optimal at all. It really helps a lot of people know, even if they don't know anything about rhythms, they somehow know that there's a rhythm to cortisol and that you should have a high cortisol in the morning and that it should be low at night. And then the opposite rhythm is sort of the melatonin rhythm, where you have low melatonin in the day. And then melatonin comes up at night. And that actually is related to eating as well. So we want to eat to be in alignment. So we should eat no more than three meals a day, no snacking, somewhere down the line. Somebody came up with this idea, which is really bad, really bad that you should eat like every two hours all day long to maintain your blood sugar and your insulin.

Dr. Felice Gersh (13:15):

That is not what, how we evolve. Can you imagine then to human species will be here. It's, you know, 20,000 years ago, humans had to eat every two hours in order to maintain blood sugar. So that is not how our bodies work. So we're much better off not to doing that. And so we should eat breakfast and you, in the beginning, I call it like the beginners, you know, eat breakfast, eat lunch, eat dinner, stop eating preferably by 7:00 PM because between seven, 8:00 PM, our pancreas actually goes to sleep and, and our insulin is not going to be produced properly. So if you eat after seven, eight at night, of course we can get away with things sometimes. But if you do it on a regular basis, you're going to be stressing out your pancreas and increasing your risk of diabetes, prediabetes, and weight gain. So we don't want to do that.

Dr. Felice Gersh (14:06):

So we want to have breakfast prior to doing the same time every day of the week, because if you do crazy different things on the weekend, we call them social jet lag. That's because if you have real jet lag and you're constantly flying across time zones, that's a problem. But if you do it to yourself, by having different schedules every day or week, like you're in different time zones, that's equally bad. So, and obviously it was special occasions or whatever, but we want to try to do this most of the time. So you try to have breakfast the same time, every day, lunch and dinner. Now, when you get more in advanced, then you could do cause most people don't want to give up dinner. So I understand that, but you could do breakfast and then skip lunch or do what I do, which is I'll have like a fast bar,uwhich is like another bar that was created by the fasting company L-Nutra,

Dr. Felice Gersh (14:56):

Where I'm actually I'm on their medical advisory board. So I, I love what they do. And we can talk about fasting and helping with the beat. So or you could have some olives, or you could have like a small piece of avocado or some macadamia nuts. What are those? They're basically fats. So if you eat fat, you're going to keep your insulin level down. So you can have like a little fat, just a little bit with like a big mug of green tea or some herbal tea for lunch. And if you have a good size of breakfast, you're not going to be very hungry and you maybe take a month or six weeks to adjust to this schedule. After you've gotten on the beat of eating, just breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And then after maybe a couple of months, you can move into the more advanced where you do this sort of fasting, mimicking type of a thing for lunch, or just even skip it.

Dr. Felice Gersh (15:44):

If you have a big enough breakfast and then have an early medium sized dinner. So that's not too bad, you know, you're, but you're not snacking, but you can drink and hydrate all the time. And if you desperately need a snack, you know, have a few olives or a little sliver of avocado, if you desperately have that a snack, but usually by hydrating. And if you have a big breakfast, it's amazing that actually reduces your appetite for the rest of the day. And for people who want to lose weight, I tell them to have a big raw vegetable salad. I know that's not the traditional American breakfast, but it's actually, most people are trying to lose weight. I mean, you are great and we're not, not, everybody's trying to lose weight, but probably 80% of people are trying to lose weight. So maybe 90. So if you start your day with a big vegetable salad, you know, all the raw food, then that is amazing that it actually helps lose weight.

Dr. Felice Gersh (16:39):

They sound that if you eat the same food raw or cooked, if it's Raul, you're more likely to lose weight. And if you eat a nice big breakfast, you'll be less hungry for the rest of the day. It gets your metabolism going get that cortisol down. So cortisol increases insulin resistance when it stays up. So we don't want to have high cortisol all day long. We went to, and that's what we don't want to skip breakfast. And this will really get you going on the beat every day. The other thing is getting bright light. So it turns out that our dermatology friends, that they got it a little wrong. What can you say? A lot of people, you know, I've gotten things wrong in my life too. So we have to say when I was wrong, I was wrong. So the idea that you should avoid the sun is very bad advice.

Dr. Felice Gersh (17:25):

Now we don't want to get a burn when I'm advocating, not advocating for that. So we don't want to get a burn, but we do want to get sun. So it turns out that the sun in our eyes, we have special receptors actually for sunlight in our eyes that go directly to the master clock. Then it's the top of the optic nerve in the hypothalamus of the brain. And that helps to get our clock back in alignment. It's called entrainment cause every day, it drifts a little bit and that bright light in the morning, we'll get your master clock in your brain back on the beat. And it's even better than that. Not only does it do that, but bright light increases our body's production of serotonin in our brain. And serotonin is that neuro transmitter. It makes us feel good and alert and calm.

Dr. Felice Gersh (18:15):

And when we get up that bright light in the morning and another set of bright lights, like for about 15, 20 minutes with no sunglasses with the bright light in the mid day, that helps us from that serotonin that we're making at night, serotonin turns into melatonin. So you sleep so much better, which is so important. And a lot of people, one of the reasons why they don't sleep well at night is they don't get enough lights in the day. They're living in these like artificial caves, you know, called business cubicles or whatever. You know, a lot of people don't even have windows where they work and or if they have windows, they're very dark. And, you know, with, you know, like the, to keep the sunlight out. So they're very dark windows or they have shades all over them. And so they really don't get much sun.

Dr. Felice Gersh (19:04):

And then they're just inside all the time. And then they come in and dark in the morning. Then they leave it's dark at night and they never see the light. And of course we know that there's seasonal affective disorder that people in Northern climates yet when they don't get enough light, what we do that to ourselves, even in where I live, I mean, Southern California, some people never see the sun. So getting that bright light in the morning, first thing. And if you can't because you're in a dark place, you know, the seasons and it's dark in the winter, you can get a light box. You can even get a Dawn simulator where the light gets brighter and brighter. So there are many ways you can, they're very inexpensive to get a light box. If you do it with a light box, you want to get 10,000 Lux.

Dr. Felice Gersh (19:46):

That's how they measure the light in the morning when you first wake up and then in the mid day for also like about 15, 20 minutes, and this will make all the difference in having restorative sleep and having energy and having serotonin. Remember when you talked about mood problems, women who don't live to the beat, how so many mood problems, something like a quarter of all women now are on antidepressants. What is that saying about us? You know, and, and they have a whole host of problems associated with them. And along with the fact that they don't usually help from most women either, and they have, you know, all these side effect profiles. So we can deal with so much with these mood problems by getting enough sleep by getting enough light in the day, Like dark at night. That's another thing. Like I personally sleep with a,

Dr. Felice Gersh (20:35):

Sleep mask, which, because I get too much ambient light in through my windows at night. And, and I, you know, they're cracks and everything and internet hotel rooms. Cause I travel and speak a lot. There's all these little lights everywhere on TVs and radios that I'm going around with. I used to go around with the grab this house from the bathroom and try to cover everything I just put on. I just put on a sleep mask because not getting enough sleep will increase breast disease, breast problems. So, and of course there's links to everything. So once you put, when you link to the breast and breast health to the health of all the rest of the body, then it makes it easier to sort of correlate everything because what's good for your brain is good for your breasts. What's good for your heart is good for your breasts. And you know, essentially most of us, our bodies are kind of sinking in the poor scheduling and then of course with the food. So we want to start with eating on the beat and then they didn't getting the lights. And that's a good way to start to get it, to get back on the beat.

Amanda Testa (21:41):

One question to you to go back to the fasting part, because I know you mentioned, you know, for women, especially it's important to eat breakfast and you and you are right, because I know there's, there's the intermittent fasting is so big now where you don't eat breakfast. So I'm curious why for women, it is. So, you know, you kind of dived into that, but how can you use that intermittent fasting while still eating breakfast? I guess so.

Dr. Felice Gersh (22:02):

Oh sure. So I would, you know, things come and go in fads and well, for whatever reason, this fed has developed that you should fast for 16 hours and it should be through breakfast. And then you start eating in the mid day or early afternoon. That is not science. That is not a good idea. I wish people would just stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it. Okay. So you're going to maintain your high cortisol, which drives insulin resistance and inflammation. So we do not want to do that. Now, if you compare like everything is, if you compare to the standard lifestyle or the standard American life, okay. Where you're eating nonstop, you're eating for breakfast pastries and you know, bacon, you know, or something like that. And then you're eating, you're drinking a very high sugary juice juice, and you're drinking coffee with all kinds of serums in it.

Dr. Felice Gersh (22:54):

So, and then you're drinking that coffee syrupy drink all day long. And then for lunch, you're eating fast food, you know, fries and some kind of a burger. So if you compare fasting through breakfast to that, then you're going to be better off fasting through breakfast. Right. But if we compare it to something better, like having a vegetable stiry fry with maybe organic tofu or even, you know, a couple of organic eggs mixed with, you know, like scrambled with a bunch of vegetables or my favorite is the breakfast salad. You know, if you compare it to that, then what I'm recommending wins hands up. Okay. But if you use the standard American crappy lifestyle, anything is going to be better than that. Never eating isbetter than always eating that stuff. But if you want to go for what's really optimal, then you want to do fasting, but you want to do it, right?

Dr. Felice Gersh (23:48):

So remember it's not just what you eat, it's when you eat it. And it's not just that you fast, it's how you fast. And when you fast. So for example, if you eat all night and fast all day, that's a problem because we are diurnal. We are not nocturnal. So you, and if you fast, so half of the day when we should be active in our immune systems are like most robust. And that's when you're not eating, that is giving the wrong clues to your body, okay. About what's going on. So what you want to do is fast for 13 hours. Now that would mean, and you want to eat breakfast optimally within two hours, you don't have to get up and instantly eat, but optimally by two hours after you get up, that's giving you a nice little cushion there now. So if you now where's the 13 hours coming from some research, okay.

Dr. Felice Gersh (24:44):

We didn't make that up. And there's for example, women who've had breast cancer. Okay? So they've had breast cancer and now you want to not have breast cancer recur because you want to live. Okay. The study shows 13 hours, not 12 hours, unfortunately, but 13 hours significantly lowers the risk of breast cancer recurrence. So now what if you say, well, I'll do a 14, 15, 16, there's very little return on investment for going beyond 13 hours. So why do it? It's like painful not to eat for so many hours, so then we don't want it. And we don't. And the way that you have to do that, if you're going to fast, longer would mean eating dinner earlier, not eating breakfast later. So what you would have to do is stop eating earlier. Now there was a study that was done with women with PCOS, which is one of my specialties and it was out of Israel.

Dr. Felice Gersh (25:39):

And in that study, they had the women eat two thirds of their calories for breakfast. And one third, it was proximate for lunch and basically one bite for dinner, basically virtually no dinner. And obviously most people wouldn't want to do that. This was a study, but in just one month, their insulin dropped 50% that when you drop the insulin, that's how you feel lose weight. You can't have high insulin and lose weight because insulin promotes fat storage and production. So that's amazing. The women started ovulating, which means their hormones were balanced. You have to have proper hormones to have a proper functioning body and to have healthy breasts as reproductive age woman. So this was phenomenal. So where did they have the fasting from lunch to breakfast? Not from dinner to lunch. So we really need to just get rid of that. And by the way, there's studies showing more plaque building up in arteries in people who skip breakfast.

Dr. Felice Gersh (26:41):

So we want have fasting the way our bodies were designed to be fasting, which is overnight and not into the middle of the day. So you want to have a dinner, say you have dinner and you finish at 7:00 PM. Then you have breakfast the next day. You know, you can have between eight and nine. Otherwise if you have to get up earlier and have breakfast earlier, then you have to move dinner earlier or, you know, you have to work around it. Okay? So that is what is optimal. And it's not like we have a choice. Okay. We are programmed with clock genes. So we have our master clock in our brain. And then all of our other cells in our bodies have clock genes about one third of the genes in our body are what they call clock genes. But 90% of the genes in our bodies work with clock genes.

Dr. Felice Gersh (27:32):

And these are set in our DNA. These are not like, you know what? I think I would rather live the life of a bat . You know, no, you can do it, but you're not changing your genes. You're working against your genes. So you're going to have problems. You know, it just it's like I would like to wake up tomorrow and have a third eye on the back of my head. That would be convenient for when I'm driving, because my car doesn't have a camera that goes, I'm driving an older car. So I don't like turning around, you know, I just want another, you can't do it. We are what we are. You know, like owls look like owls and humans look like humans and our clock genes are embedded in us, in our genes, in our DNA. It's who we are. So when we live in discord with how our bodies were designed to live, we are going to have medical problems.

Dr. Felice Gersh (28:23):

We're going to have mood problems, metabolic problems. And that sets the stage for cancer because everything is off the beat and that's really important. And it doesn't matter, you know, that what we want, it matters what we are and it's, so we have a whole society of people and I was one of them that, and you know, that, that work at night, and this is such a challenge. There's data published that women who work the night have higher rates of breast cancer. They also have higher rates of diabetes, metabolic syndrome, depression, obesity, you know, it's not a good picture. So I don't have a solution for people who chose a career where they're going to have to work at night. And the worst are like the doctors who work in emergency rooms, you know, or nurses that are on and off because there's no consistency.

Dr. Felice Gersh (29:14):

So there were like three, three days a week. They're working at night and then one day a week, they're working in the day and then the others enjoy whatever they want. You know? So it's theirs, they're constantly in a metabolic dysfunction because they're always off the beat. They have no consistency. So for people who do work at night, and this is a tough one, it's best to try and take. What I recommend is that you eat only two meals a day, 12 hours apart, regardless of whether you're working at night or day, job, you know that, or like sometimes you switch, you know, you work the day shift and night shift, or you just have days off. So try to eat 12 hours apart to at least try to keep the beat and try to use, try to sleep, like whether you're working the night or not the night to try to sleep the same times every day.

Dr. Felice Gersh (30:00):

So that basically you're creating a new time zone. You know, it's like Suzy time zone, you know, so that, you know, you have some consistency with your life because you know, you can live like on like typically 12 hours from Dubai. So I could live in Dubai time in California where I am. But what that would mean is that I would have to actually like sleep every day during the day and then be up every night, you know, and eat at the same time every day. And basically I'd be like living on the other side of the world, but I'd have to do it seven days a week, but nobody really wants to do that. But if you're working a night shift, that would actually be better for you if you actually just lived as if you were in a different time zone all the time, it's a challenge.

Amanda Testa (30:45):

Yeah. So definitely get it. You know what? Eating on a regular timeline with a good breakfast and then making sure you get that light exposure. Is there anything else that is really supportive to get you back on the beat?

Dr. Felice Gersh (30:58):

Oh, absolutely. So when you, when you exercise, exercise is like the miracle medicine that most people don't use. And there's actually data showing that when we exercise can have a different impact on our body. So if you want to lose weight, the best time to exercise is in the morning. If you want to build a muscle, then this time to exercise is actually in the afternoon. And if you exercise right before you go to bed, then that will just potentially disrupt your sleep. Now, some people say any exercise is better than no exercise, you know? So you make the best of it. But you know, it's always nice to know what's optimal. So optimal is not exercise right before you go to sleep and weight loss, And so many people want to lose weight is exercise in the morning when you exercise. And they've actually shown that you increase, increase the diversity of your gut microbiome.

Dr. Felice Gersh (31:52):

So you're actually doing wonderful things for your gut microbes. And we know that they are like our cousins. So it's really interesting. We've not known about these incredible microbial populations called our microbiomes until relatively recently as well. And they are really part of us. They are synergy with us. And so we want to nurture them. So exercise and eating the right foods. So, you know, we talk about when you eat it's of course also what you eat. So I'm a plant based person. So because plants are what the microbes love. So when we're eating, you know, we talk about, cause I'm at OB, you know, when we're eating for two, right? Well, we're actually eating for trillions. So we have to feed those trillions of microbes in our gut and they love plants. That's what they eat. They love having the polyphenols. They do like a dance with them and the fiber.

Dr. Felice Gersh (32:49):

That's what they ferment. And that's what we, that's how they make the short chain fatty acids that actually act as signaling agents to our brain and our liver. They actually have to have receptors. So, I mean, talk about synergy. It turns out that these short chain, fatty acids, these metabolites of fermentation from the microbes in the gut, that there's actually receptors for them on our vagus nerves. That talk about how we're together. We're like one. So when you have butyrate, which is one of the short chain, fatty acids, it actually combined on receptors on the Vegas nerve and it makes our brain happy and it can actually cross into the brain. And actually it's like brain food because it's a fatty acid. And it also acts as food for the lining cells of the gut. But it also acts as a signaling agent to the liver.

Dr. Felice Gersh (33:38):

I mean, it's just amazing how we have to feed those little critters or they cannot do their job, which is to keep us healthy. So we want to really make sure that we eat a high plant-based diet. They talk about primitive type societies, or I'm very many left on this planet. But data, when they looked at the children's GI tract, they found that the children had enormously different gut microbial populations than children that live in like Western Europe. And they had tremendous diversity numbers and diversity. So in order to create diversity, you have to have a diverse diet. So some people say, I eat vegetables, I eat broccoli. And now I'm not against broccoli. I'm very pro broccoli, but you can't just eat broccoli and be a really healthy person. So that's where they come across with eating from the colors of the rainbow, lots of diverse types of plants, I think go to a farmer's market when you can or go to a store like mothers market, whole foods, where they have diversity of all kinds of plants, and then just buy something from everything and experiment.

Dr. Felice Gersh (34:48):

You know, you can get recipes in the store, you can get recipes online, you can get it. It's like everyone wants to help you to cook and try these different types of vegetables. And when people and this, I see it all the time, they kind of make these little wiggly things with their nose. When I, you know, say like vegetables, they'll say I hate vegetables. And it's like, there are ways to cook vegetables that no one taught you, that you will love them. And worst case scenario cover them with a little coconut oil and put on pumpkin pie spice and then boil them or bake them. And then they'll just all taste like pumpkin pie to you, you know? So just, you can find ways that you can enjoy vegetables because they are critical, not just for their minerals and their vitamins and their antioxidants, which are so important, but also as food for all of those little critters in there.

Dr. Felice Gersh (35:38):

So we definitely want to make sure we take care of them. And then the other thing is to actually do fast, you know, like more than just so when you don't eat for part of the day, that technically is fasting, but we actually don't call that fasting in the, you know, the verbiage that we use, we call that time restricted eating. So when you don't eat over a 24 hour period, that's called time restricted eating. When you don't eat for at least 24 hours, that's called intermittent fasting. And when you don't eat for a few days, like four days or five days, that's called periodic fasting. If you don't eat for at least, you know, over 10 days, that's called prolonged fasting. And actually that is not good because then your whole metabolic system changes and your metabolic rate slows. Cause then you're in basic survival mode, but there's this amazing sweet spot, like four or five days. If you fast like water fast, don't eat any food. Then a lot of mechanisms are triggered in the body that are very restorative. You can actually burn liver fat, which is really critical because you cannot be healthy with a fatty liver and you actually increase the production of brain growth factors, brain drives brain growth factors that actually make your brain healthier

Speaker 4 (36:57):

And happier. And they're doing

Dr. Felice Gersh (36:59):

Now looking at reducing Alzheimer's and dementia by doing fasting. So it'd be really fascinating when these studies come out, but it also does other amazing things. It causes crappy cells in our bodies to die. I mean, that's programmed cell suicide. And if you constantly eat, you never stop eating the body. Doesn't deal with that whole factor of killing off crappy cells. And you want to get rid of crappy cells because they're the bad cells that do you in. We, we want to like clean house, get rid of the junk cells. And that's what gets triggered when you do periodic fasting for four or five days. And as well, the good cells in the body get rejuvenated a site from within. We call that autophagy where you actually take them to different cellular components. They go into, I call the recycle bin, it's the lychzome. And then it recreates from the proteins of the cell and the fats of the cell fatty acids and amino acids.

Dr. Felice Gersh (38:00):

And then they reconstruct new cellular structure. So it's really like a total cell rehab. And this is amazing. And then once the crappy cells kill themselves, the STEM cells of the cells, they get stimulated. So you end up creating a bigger pool of STEM cells and as well, you actually replace all the crappy cells with beautiful new cells. So it's like we do the knitting internally, the cells and rejuvenating the organs. So it's like, it's amazing. Now here's the problem to tell my patients that you should, you know, okay, stop eating for four days and just drink water. And I want you to do it like every month for three months in a row. And then I want you to do it four times a year. You get a compliance of about 1%, even though because people love to eat. You know, we evolved in a time, you know, in ancient times when food came and went.

Dr. Felice Gersh (38:55):

So people didn't fast because they wanted to fast. They just wasn't food around for sometimes for a few days. And so we evolved into that scenario to be optimally healthy for the environment that we evolved in. But now we have food everywhere we turn and we really love eating. So what the company that I work with, the fasting mimicking company called L Nutra created out of the research of the longevity Institute at USC, a fasting, mimicking diet. And that's what I do myself. And that's what I use with my patients because otherwise I, you know, I have quite a theory, but you know, actual success. So what a fasting mimicking diet is that they created food that you eat for five days. And that was not a ton, but it's very tasty. You get three meals a day that flies under the radar of detection of the nutrient sensors in the brain.

Dr. Felice Gersh (39:49):

So I call it self food. So it's like the best of all worlds to get to eat, but your body doesn't know it and thinks you're fasting. And you also get the benefit of eating. Cause you get the nutrients, you get the pleasure and the benefit of eating and then you get the benefit of fasting. So that's why it's so brilliant. And so, and so we have the data that we have on it shows that it does do the things that I mentioned. Like it helps to burn liver fat. It helps to do the autophagy trigger autophagy and STEM cell stimulation and so on. And they're doing something like 40 studies right now, looking at pretty much everything that you can imagine. So as we stay tuned and we see more data, so, but just based on what we do know now I utilize it all the time because we do know if I know enough that I love it.

Speaker 5 (40:42):

Curious too, is there a specific time of the month that it's most optimal to do?

Dr. Felice Gersh (40:47):

Well within data that we have is based on some interesting data that was done with NIH funded studies back in the 1990s, is that amazing. There was like this brief, I don't know what actually made it happen, but there were these studies that were done back in the 1990s on fasting and with women's cycles and we need to recreate new ones. We need to have many new studies and that's where we're heading. But right now, looking at the older data, it would look like if you fast in, during the follicular phase of the menstrual cycle, you were more likely to impact the ovulation. Now what they showed was that if women were very thin, then they didn't ovulate at all. If women were normal, they opulate it, but their hormone spikes were lower. Okay. So basically I think it's best if you can avoid doing fasting during the follicular phase.

Dr. Felice Gersh (41:44):

So that would be from the time you get your period until halfway through the menstrual cycle, which is when you ovulate and it would be better to do it during the luteal phase, the second half of the menstrual cycle. And there is actually some data published that when you fast during the luteal phase, that it actually improves heart rate coherence, or what have called heart rate variability, and it lowers the sympathetic and increases the parasympathetic. And what that means is that you're calmer. You feel better. So I would love to get some studies on fasting and PMs, because I think that it's going to really show that women who do have problems with mood disorder and so on during the luteal phase. And they have the PMs that by doing fasting during that time, maybe even a small Fast, like two day fast, you know, that it will really help them dramatically to feel better.

Dr. Felice Gersh (42:38):

So it's, there's so much interesting material that we have and that we need to acquire more because this just wasn't on very many people's radar. If it's just like a little blip that happened in the 1990s, and then it just all disappeared. And now fortunately it's coming back. And so we can learn more about how to really apply fasting specifically to women, because I talk about this all the time. Women and men are so different. We have really different immune systems, metabolic systems. We have different hearts and most of the studies have been done on men in everything. So it's time for us to take the spotlight and, and to really understand, but I do based on the data we do have already, I recommend fasting during the luteal phase. And I think especially for women as they're transitioning into the menopause years and the early menopause years that incorporating fasting is going to be shown to be so vitally important to maintaining their metabolic homeostasis, sort of keeping their metabolism on track because the hormone fluctuations that occur during the premenopausal transition years are going to be crazy.

Dr. Felice Gersh (43:48):

It's like being on a hormonal rollercoaster and mood swings and sleep problems and so forth. And I think that there's a lot of potential by incorporating fasting and time restricted eating and exercise. And of course, one of my favorites is some form of mind, body medicine. I personally love guided imagery, but some people prefer meditation for me. I worked on meditation, but I kept trying to plan my day. You know, it's like, no, I'm meditating. I'm not planning my day tomorrow. But when I do guided imagery, which is sort of a form of, of entering into a hypnotic state, but or a guided meditation where you listen to a beautiful voice with a beautiful music, the background, and it takes you on a mind journey so that you're taking yourself into a beautiful visualization, as opposed to trying to empty your mind. Cause I just would fill it with thoughts, you know? So I just said, I'm just going to do the guided imagery. And there's wonderful data on that. So for people who, who don't have time to really practice and learn meditation, you can buy, download very easily, very inexpensively, these guided imageries, and you can do them every day and you'll be amazed by the way, if you do it and you immediately fall asleep, that's a clue you're probably sleep deprived. So you should go to sleep earlier that night, but keep, keep listening to your guided imagery.

Amanda Testa (45:13):

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom here today. And I'm curious, is there any question that I didn't ask that you wished that I would have asked or any last words you'd like to share with everyone?

Dr. Felice Gersh (45:24):

Well, yes. When women get breast cancer in terms of breast cancer, it's really a sign and we sort of touched on this. I just want to emphasize it, that there's inflammation in the breast. And this is really a sign of a local inflammation in the breast. And it's always accompanied by a systemic inflammation. So it means that the whole body is inflamed. And we didn't touch on like when you have a mammogram and it says you have dense breasts because it's still the bulk of women who do get breast cancer are post-menopausal unfortunately it's growing in premenopausal women. And that's really because of the ubiquitous endocrine disruptors, these chemicals that are altering the way our normal hormones are working. And they're really toxic. But if we look at the postmenopausal women who get mammograms and then they say, Oh, you have dense breasts and that's a risk for breast cancer.

Dr. Felice Gersh (46:18):

I'm sure people have heard this, right? You have dense breasts. You have your best for breast cancer. But what does that mean? Why do you have dense breasts? I think this is really an important message. It means you have inflammation in your breasts. Now breasts like many organs in the body made estrogen. So estrogen is made in ovaries. Everybody knows that, but estrogen is made in many organs themselves. That's how men and children get estrogen. There. Many children are loaded with estrogen, but it's not circulating. If you get a blood level, it's going to be very low because it's made in the organs, in the brain, in the heart, in the blood vessels, in the breast. So breasts make estrogen because estrogen is a modulator of inflammation. It controls inflammation. So when you have an inflammation going on, the body makes more estrogen. If you have a brain trauma, there are actually cells in the brain that will make more estrogen to help reduce inflammation in the brain.

Dr. Felice Gersh (47:18):

It's amazing, you know, adaptive mechanism of the human body. And if you have inflammation in your breasts, the breasts will make more estrogen trying to control that. But when you, and if you have a breast infection, that's why you have it. Like if you're breastfeeding and you get a breast infection, the body wants to control that inflammatory response. So it doesn't go too, too crazy. And then the women will stop breastfeeding. The baby will die because remember it's all about survival. These, all of these mechanisms. So the breasts make as makes estrogen to control inflammation. But when you have post-menopausal inflammation, systemic inflammation, you cannot control it with estrogen in the breast. This is too pervasive and ongoing. So you need the breast makes estrogen. So that's what makes it because estrogen is about growth and proliferation. So you're growing more of a ductal cells, but the goal is to actually put out and reduce the inflammation.

Dr. Felice Gersh (48:19):

But when you have chronic unrelenting inflammation and then in the breast, and then you have chronic unrelenting production of estrogen in the breast, because estrogen is doing what it's designed to do. When you have chronic inflammation that can lead to DNA breakage, and then you can get cancer. And estrogen is about nurturing and healing. Okay? Proliferation it's to help heal and grow. Like you get a cut on your skin. Estrogen actually in the skin helps it to heal. Estrogen creates growth factors and new blood vessels, which is about healing. But now in a breast situation where you now have developed breast cancer, estrogen, we did not evolve to have breast cancer. So estrogen doesn't recognize that that's cancer. It just thinks it's injured tissue and it's trying to heal it. So it creates new growth, new blood vessels, and it's actually nurturing breast cancer. But estrogen was doing what it was supposed to do was trying to put out the inflammation.

Dr. Felice Gersh (49:19):

But now everything changed. Everything's like topsy turvy, cause you get breast cancer. So if you are a woman and you have dense breasts on a mammogram, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't, I'm not saying you shouldn't like more surveillance because that's sort of the standard approach. Do more surveillance, you know, like get more mammograms, get ultrasounds. That's fine. That's about early detection. I'm really focused a lot on prevention. Okay? So that's a sign. You have inflammation in your breasts. You have inflammation in your whole body. It's not just in your breast. You're not like a breastfeeding mom. And you have a breast infection because of breastfeeding. You have inflammation everywhere in your body. So you need to take action, not stop doing surveillance, but starting taking positive steps to lower your inflammation and lower your risk of breast cancer. By doing all the things that we talked about by getting on the beat, by eating the right foods, by getting enough sleep, by getting light into your eyes, by having meditation, working on stress, you can reduce your risk of breast cancer. Not just try to find it early because I'm not, I'm not against finding it early, but I want to not have women go through that in the first place. So take charge. When you have dense breasts, that's a big red flag that you are an inflamed woman and take all the steps to lower your state of inflammation, lower your risk of breast cancer, lower your risk of cardiovascular disease of dementia. All those things go together. It's one body. And fortunately it's one approach to getting optimally healthy.

Amanda Testa (50:57):

That is such great wisdom. Thank you so much. And I appreciate you being here today and for sharing. And I'm curious if anyone wants to learn more about you and connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

Dr. Felice Gersh (51:09):

Well, I am a, what I call an old fashioned doctor, I own brick and mortar practice in Irvine, California called the Integrative Medical Group of Irvine. And my website is https://integrativemgi.com And I want everyone to follow me on Instagram because I'm just getting going. I've not been like a social media doctor, like a regular, you know, hard working doctor, but I'm getting going with my Instagram. And my Instagram has, my name is D R period Felice Gersh. So it's dr. Period Felice Gersh. And I want everyone to follow me on Instagram because I'm going to really post really good stuff and I need to have help because I'm just, like I said, brand new into the social media world.

Amanda Testa (51:50):

Beautiful. We'll all follow you. And I'll make sure to add that in the comments and thanks so much. Yes. Thank you so much, Dr. Gersh, it's been a pleasure having you here today. Thank you so much for listening to the find your feminine fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me@amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook in the group Find your feminine fire group. And if you've enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

This week I've got my husband Mark back on the pod as we talk about future visioning, and how it has worked in our relationship.  Tune in to discover how to use this practice to invite more connection, contentment, and resilience to your relationship. 

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

It's always fun to have Mark on the show, as it gives some real life context to many of the practices we use to keep our relationship humming.  Like everyone, we have our moments, but the more we tune into the tools that help us reconnect, remember we are on the same page, and have more fun, the more we enjoy harmony, and joy in our home. 

This week we're sharing one practice that has been supporting us these past few weeks, especially when things feel so out of control in our environment. 

Hope you enjoy this podcast, and if you know someone who would enjoy this episode, please share!

If you would like to learn more about how sensual self care can transform your life, Schedule a free consult HERE.

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

This week I'm sharing about one of my favorite practices, and the Do's and Don'ts of a proper Jade Egg/ Yoni Egg practice.  Tune in as I answer all your questions, and demystify this powerful sensual self care tool.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

This week I'm clearing up some of the misconceptions around using a Jade or Yoni Egg.    Tune in as I share my personal story of how this practice was a game changer for my life.   Maybe you have a Yoni Egg and aren't sure what to do with it.  Maybe you have no clue what I'm talking about. Either way, this episode will leave you with all the knowledge you need to determine if this practice is right for you.

Want an egg of your own? Get one HERE.

Have an egg but not sure what to do with it?  Want to have a heart to heart to figure out if this is right for you or want to learn more about this work?  Schedule a free consult HERE.

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

How do we become and grow ourselves into sanctuaries of health and wellness in a world of so much chaos and difficulty?  

This week I'm thrilled to talk with one of my teachers and mentors Rachael Maddox on how to cultivate collective sanctuary and post traumatic growth.

ThisListen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

(complete audio transcript below)

This week I'm talking with Rachael Maddox,  a trauma resolution educator, coach and guide who’s helped hundreds of people resolve their sexual trauma and reclaim their pleasure, power, and wholeness.  We're jamming on what it takes to build sanctuary within and collectively. 

On a fierce mission to help as many humans as possible who’ve experienced trauma, Rachael teaches experienced coaches, therapists, and guides to work safely and powerfully with trauma in her magical, soulful ReBloom Coach Training.  I've been honored to be in her ReBloom Trauma Informed Coach Training program since last October, and it's been an incredible experience.

You can learn more about the ReBloom Coach Training  HERE. (early bird ends 9.15.20)  I highly recommend it!

Follow her on Insta HERE. (her feed is magic)

Join in the discussion on this episode and more in my free Facebook Group, Find Your Feminine Fire HERE.

Listen here or tune in via Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

Amanda Testa (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a Sex Love and relationship coach. And in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex love and relationships and everything that lights you up from the inside out.

Amanda Testa (00:19):

Welcome. Hello everyone. And Welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa, and I'm thrilled today to be talking with Rachael Maddox, who is one of my mentors and she is trauma resolution educator. She's a coach and a guide, and she really works around helping, helping people move from trauma into pleasure and trust filled relationships and feeling empowered as well as really helping other leaders to be more trauma informed in their work and really changing the way they do their lives and work. So it's much more regenerative among many other things, but welcome Rachel, thank you for being here.

Rachael Maddox (01:00):

So happy to be here with you, Amanda.

Amanda Testa (01:02):

Yeah. And you know, as we are recording this episode, it's, you know, it's a crazy time in the world and there's fires going on. All the injustice being brought to light even more than ever and just a lot going on. So before we started recording, Rachael mentioned something that I thought was so beautiful talking about how we can become more, more strong in times like this. And you said it much more beautifully. So I want you to repeat what you said about becoming a sanctuary. Cause I think that's feel so relevant right now. Yeah.

Rachael Maddox (01:37):

Yeah. I've just been thinking about this a lot. It's something I've had to learn how to do in terms of working with trauma. Because when we work with trauma in individuals, or if we have groups over teaching groups, nervous systems can be really disregulated. And so one of the things that's really important around facilitating post traumatic growth is cultivating enough blueprint and health and resiliency and capacity in your own nervous system, cultivating a wide enough base of support so that when somebody comes to you with a lot of emergency, you're not thrown off by that. And in fact, your blueprint, your health your wellness because has a bigger momentum than their emergency. And so they fall into your momentum as opposed to you falling into theirs. So I'm thinking about that in terms of culture, how, and of course not one person can shift the momentum of culture.

Rachael Maddox (02:41):

So the question then becomes, how do we, how do we, and who is the we, and where are the we's? How do we become sanctuary? How do we become some kind of momentum of wellness, blueprint, cooperation, regeneration, which is making things healthier than they were before. How do we become those things together in a culture that is currently full of chaos, disregulation violence, emergencies, of course, injustices, who do we need to be together and not alone? How do we become sanctuaries together? And who do I have to be as an individual to be able to be part of a powerful collective sanctuary of wellness? So what, what ways do I have to tend to myself? Do I get to tend to myself, to my body, to my spirit, to my psyche, to my nervous system, to my heart, what are the ways I get to tend to myself so that I can find other people who are here to collaborate on sanctuary?

Amanda Testa (03:53):

That just feels what, when you just say that to even just the word, like creating that collective sanctuary, it's like, ahh, That feels so good. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I love how you said get to like, we get to tend to ourselves.

Rachael Maddox (04:09):

Yeah. Well, the thing is, you know, there are a million things that are going wrong and they're all real, right? Like the stresses of COVID the stresses of Trump, the stresses of systemic injustices, environmental stresses, like they're so real. And many of us, not all of us, but many of us still have enough privilege and enough choice. Now the, the challenging thing is when our nervous systems are really stressed and jacked with traumatic fear, it actually reduces choice or reduces, excuse me, choiceless, or it reduces choice. And it increases choiceless ness because our reptilian brain hijacks our neocortex, which is our decision making part of our brain and our prefrontal cortex, which is the planning part that can say, Oh, even though I don't want to do this 20 minute or 10 minute practice in the morning, even though I'm resistant and tired and grumpy, if I do it, everything will be better.

Rachael Maddox (05:18):

It's the prefrontal cortex that can weigh consequences and make decisions. But if our reptilian brain, which is the part of our brain that gets hijacked by trauma is super activated. It actually decreases our access to our prefrontal cortex by like 75%. So that's why, I'm just kind of launching into random ideas here, but that's why trauma informed support and care is so helpful doing, having, doing work, to heal our nervous systems and to increase our capacity, our capacity, our nervous system capacity is so important because it's what gives us choice in times of stress.

Amanda Testa (05:59):

Yeah. I think that piece that you mentioned just about how the reptilian brain takes over, and I just read something recently, like when someone's under stress, it reduces your IQ. And then when it's like intense stress, it's like something like 40% reduction in your IQ. That makes so much sense. Right. And I think, . And I was just going to say, you know, I think when you, when you were mentioning, you know, just the whole trauma informed care in general, for people who might be listening and they're like, well, what exactly is a trauma resolution guide? What does that mean? I love if you would share a little bit more about that.

Rachael Maddox (06:35):

Yeah. Well, you know, I think especially today, all of us are experiencing things that we did not consent to. We didn't consent to COVID, we didn't consent to forest fires. We didn't consent. A lot of us didn't consent to our president, even maybe as a nation, we didn't consent our president and yet he's our president. So we're experiencing a lot of collective trauma. So whoever you are, whether you have a background of any kind of sexual violence, whether you have a background of maybe any kind of childhood neglect or not, we are all experiencing collective trauma. What it means to guide someone from trauma to trust, a trauma resolution guide, right, is to help somebody one first become aware of the experiences that they're having that are hijacking their nervous system or the experiences that they have had in the past that have hijacked their nervous system. And when we have, when our nervous system gets activated, we tend toward different responses, right? This is something everybody's heard of fight flight or, freeze or appease,

Rachael Maddox (07:46):

Right? To hyper socialize, to try to make someone else feel safe and comfortable so that they are less of a threat to you. So we develop these responses in our system, hyper arousal responses of hypervigilance, escaping situations, being really argumentative or combative, right, fight or flight or flight or fight hyper socialization, which is the appease, or hypo States we get into hypo States of free is depression, dissociation, chronic pain, chronic illness, exhaustion. Why bother, who cares numbness to your dissatisfaction purposelessness? These are all actually not our natural way of being. These are States that emerge when we've experienced something or many things that felt like they were too big, too much, too soon, too fast for our nervous systems to respond to in a healthy way. So instead we respond to them in these, with these trauma responses, but the trauma responses get stuck in our system until we complete them and get a sense that we can actually have a new future, have a new experience in relationship to ourselves, others or the world.

Rachael Maddox (09:09):

If we don't get a chance to renew the way we relate to ourselves, others and the world in a safe enough container that helps us regrow new neural pathways in the place where we've had traumatized neural pathways, then there's traumatized neural pathways, secretly run the show. They secretly run the show. So a trauma resolution guide helps you see whats secretly running the show and at the level of the body at the level of the somatic felt sense, nervous system shift, internal physiological patterns, so that you have more capacity for choice as opposed to reverting to these unconscious trauma responses.

Amanda Testa (09:52):

So beautiful. And I can just tell too, from in my own life of doing this work is just noticing so much more capacity to just handle things. And it's just so huge because I know I'm one that in my past tend to be like super hyper and anxious and do all the things and push myself beyond what's normal all the time. And thinking that was the normal way of being which many I know of listeners are, could probably relate to feeling that like constant push to like whatever, you know, that society tells us that that is required to be successful or to that, to, to get what you want or go out and like seize and all those terms that are just very counter, counter regenerative. Right? So learning that in myself, I think that's one of the things that I have noticed so much in doing and learning this work is just my capacity has shifted. And the way I view the world has shifted in the way I like live. Every part of my life is more aware of like, what is really regenerative for me? What is pushing it too much? Like when can I set stronger boundaries and really honor those,

Rachael Maddox (10:59):

Can I ask you a question about that? Like what it for you helped you get to that place of realizing I've been pushing too far too fast. And then how did you not just intellectually understand that, but in your body learn to know what your limits were and to stop when you reach them.

Amanda Testa (11:21):

Yeah. And I think there was a couple of times, like the first was after my daughter and I, my journey kind of began as just like really learning tools and supports that would help me and like going through certifications to learn more about sexuality and how that was affecting my life. And then realizing when I was going to build my business like that is when I started pulling in that, okay, I've got to like push myself beyond what's capable. Even though I was doing things to help myself, it was definitely not balanced. And I think what happened is the end of last year, just feeling really burned out and the lack of energy, lack of joy, like the things that I would normally do, wouldn't bring the same kind of response and just realize I needed to make some shifts. And so one of the things that I decided to do is like, really take a hard look at how I was doing my business and realizing this is really not serving me at all.

Amanda Testa (12:13):

Like I am pushing myself far too hard and, you know, taking all the business courses from these dudes that were like telling me to do all these things and didn't feel, didn't feel right. It burned me out. Like my body was literally like, you're done, here's going to take a break. So I have, I did that. And that's when I found like, that's when I started doing the Rebloom your business and all those things like started the Rebloom work. It was just like this huge breath of fresh air. It was like this literally like a balm for my whole system. Like, Oh, wait a minute. There is other ways to do this and have it work even better. Wonderful. Yeah. And the other thing I think too is, you know, you talk a lot about the collective support, which I think is so key.

Amanda Testa (12:58):

And I think that's something that, you know, especially now feels a little harder to get to for a lot of people. Cause we can't be in groups like we normally can. We can't like see people like we normally do, and that is hard. But I think, you know, even having virtual connections and spaces where that is available more often is part of the help, you know, even just like with our sessions and our meetings, like just having that collective with similar goals, like you say, creating that collective sanctuary so everyone can just like regulate together. Yeah. Feels so good that everything I love. Yeah.

Rachael Maddox (13:34):

Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. How many people in the personal development industry end up finding me, like burnt out on personal development. They're like, I went too far, whether it's like Tony Robbins style, like I, you know, pushed, pushed, pushed, and like my adrenals are shot now or whatever it is or right. Some kind of marketing type thing where, and I mean, I don't know, I've never done anything with Tony Robbins, so I don't really have a personal opinion, but, and anyway, that's a whole other story, but you know, this idea of extraction versus regeneration, so extraction is what takes from us or what takes from the natural source without giving back to it. Regeneration will is what takes with giving back twofold, right? And so we are a culture of extraction the way we do our farming industry. It's completely extractive. It's why, you know, we are having to pump all kinds of pesticides onto the food because the fields have been so extracted from that they can't naturally grow. They didn't get their natural crop rotation or season of rest. So I look at these big systems and I say, how are we doing this to ourselves? We are not those systems. Yes. We've been literally eating the fruits of those systems since we were children, but we are not them. We are wiser than that. We just have to remember who we really are. And it's a lot easier to remember with others than to remember

Amanda Testa (15:16):

By yourself. I love that. It's funny how you were talking about the crops and just in general. And my dad was actually grew up on a farm in South Georgia. And so he originally went to school for agricultural economics was, you know, gonna go back and like take over the farm and then realize like that just the way things were changing in small forms, weren't gonna make it. And like that whole area he grew up in has been devastated. Right. It's just that whole agribusiness like been so negative in so many ways. And so I think it's like finding, but you know, finding those pockets of when things feel overwhelming and you look around and you're like, what are we done to ourselves? Realizing like, well, let's figure out what we can do. Yeah. Cause I think that's what happens. I see what happens for me. And I also see what happens for people I talked to as like sometimes when things feel too much, it's like, then they're like, well, I don't even know what to do. So I'm just gonna like shut down.

Rachael Maddox (16:11):

Yeah. That's normal. I mean, I had a day like that yesterday with all the fires, I was just like, Holy crap. And you know, and it's, it's normal to get overwhelmed. It's absolutely normal. And the more you've been practicing, cultivating sanctuary in yourself and with others, the more you can bounce back. So it's not about being perfect. What, what is that? Who can be perfect in this world? No one it's not about perfection. It's not about never having feelings or never being affected or never getting down on your hope. No, this is a hard time. It's about bouncing back together. What are the structures, relationships, communities, rhythms, routines that you have in place that help you bounce back because we need people with heart to have bounce back. Right.

Amanda Testa (17:07):

And I think that's what you mentioned earlier too, when we were talking about the creating that collective environment and just also creating strong more strength within ourselves, you mentioned Harriet Tubman or, you know, you think about these people. There are people that do amazing things in times of intense stress. Right. Right. And I, I would love if you could speak to that a little bit more, because I sometimes think about that too. Like when days I feel really down on myself, but I'm like, there's just, there are people out there who have done amazing things and don't, don't put pressure on yourself. Like you have to do it all, but like, know that it is possible for one person to make a big change. And it can be little start, little, little things that you do, right. Yeah. Yeah. And I'd love to

Rachael Maddox (17:50):

Hear your thoughts on that. Well, what's coming up for me is in the very last chapter of my new book ReBloom that's one day coming out, I have the print proof, but I read the first 80 pages and I was like, Nope, gotta change some things. So, but the very last chapter is, is called the next world, coming to meet us from the other side. And it's about this sort of parallel possibility. You know, I have this theory, this secret theory I've been running in my head, which is that we're going to be experiencing like as the world progresses in the next decades. Yes. We will still be here. Okay. So that's the thing, first of all, we're still going to be here, but there's going to be massive evolutionary changes in how we look as humans. And there's going to be, I think, splits in the experience of what it looks and feels like to be a human, which is weird, but this is just my prediction.

Rachael Maddox (19:01):

My prediction is there's going to be these splits and there's going to be certain people who are creating sanctuary together against all odds. There's going to be, there's going to be utopia and dystopia coexisting. And of course the utopia is still going to be like crying about the dystopia and trying to change it and heal it and everything else. But this is my prediction. And what that makes me think of is this part of the very last chapter of the book, where I talk about, you know, in Peter Levine's Seminole book, Waking The Tiger, he tells this story about these kids, these like third graders who got kidnapped. Have you read the book? Yes. Remember this story? So I just think the story like touched me so deeply when I read it, there were these third graders who got kidnapped and they were all buried underground in a cellar or like, yeah, the seller was underground.

Rachael Maddox (19:49):

And then it was like buried into the earth and they were just left there to die. And it was like some, you know, 20 3rd graders or something like this. And a few of those kids decided they found spoons, they found metal spoons. And most of the kids were like starving and about to like fall asleep, like just kind of wither away. And a few of these kids found these little spoons and they were like, we're digging our way out. And you know, it was like two kids got the idea. They enrolled, whoever would, would help. And there was like four or five kids that helped. And the other 15 kids were like, Nope, we're going to die. But those kids dug the whole group out. And then those kids that dug, they went on to become CEOs, doctors, philanthropists, like they went on to have these lives that were of tremendous impact.

Rachael Maddox (20:45):

And the kids that didn't help dig went on to have significant PTSD. And so I feel like that's both like a warning and an invitation without, again, trying to put pressure on things because sometimes we collapse and we're like, I just can't do it. Right. And so what do we do in those moments? How do we, again, how do we receive what we need in those moments so that we don't completely collapse, but if you have it in you to dig at all, now's the time and we're going to make it through this portal, we're going to make it out the cellar. And we won't look the way we've looked before humans are gonna look very different, but we're either gonna make it out with super powers, posttraumatic growth superpowers, or a lot of traumatized physiology. So my goal, my life's fucking goal is to grow more and more and more people that have the capacity to dig themselves out. Because if, even if you tend to collapse, tend to hypo, which there's no shame, that's like a very normal thing that happens for a lot of people. You can still grow your capacity to lean into difficulty and to stay showing up and to stay present. So the more of us that have that capacity, the better off we'll all be. So that's my goal. That's my vision .

Amanda Testa (22:09):

That that's powerful. And I like, you know, even that visual of just the digging, because you think like, even if you just dig one spoonfull a day, that's better than just not doing anything. Right. You're making progress in the direction of change or what you want. Like that escape that you're, you're doing some action, even if it's small. Yeah. But the more capacity you have, the more you can dig. Right? Yeah. I haven't thought about that story in awhile. Thank you for bringing that up. And I L and you know, and to speak, to post traumatic growth. I think let's speak to that for a minute. Cause I think that's one of the, the beautiful things that is the purpose of the work. Right. And to invite more into that. And so, and for anyone listening, who, you know, maybe you already work with clients and you maybe want to learn how to be even more trauma informed or how to create a pathway that feels even more magical and possible, but yet that posttraumatic growth. And how can you talk a little bit more about what that is and how, how that yeah. How, how that, how that works?

Rachael Maddox (23:15):

Yeah. So I love this idea of posttraumatic growth because you know, when I first started working with trauma and I'm remembering when I first went on my like podcast tour, the very first one, like five years ago with my first book, secret bad girl, I used to talk about this all the time. So I'm like, Oh, this is fun. I think that when we have traumatized physiologies, it's like swimming in a pool with 10 bathing suits on because you're still expected to do all same things that anybody else is, you're still expected to figure out how to show up, to work, how to make money, how to take care of your kids, how to be enough thriving or functional relationship, how to take care of your body. But you're doing it in a state of hyper arousal or hypo arousal. You're doing it outside of what Dan Siegel calls your window of tolerance, which is the physiological state of which you have the most presence.

Rachael Maddox (24:11):

And like resiliency range of resiliency is what my teacher Brigit calls it. So you're when you're walking around the world raw under a trauma spout. And I, you know, deep compassion, if you're listening, you're like, Oh my God, that's me. Like you're going outside. And you're anxious all the time. Or you don't want to see anyone you're in deep States of self isolation because people feel like too much to deal with. I mean, I've dealt with all of these things. It feels like lifetimes ago at this point, even though it wasn't, it was maybe six or seven years ago. So when you're walking around with traumatized physiologies, it is like you're swimming through life with 10 bathing suits on and trauma resolution helps you slowly take off one bathing suit at a time. Well, what happens when you've been swimming with 10 bathing suits and now you're only swimming with five, you can go faster in a, in an efficient way without working harder.

Rachael Maddox (25:05):

All of a sudden you're able to get a further distance. And it's because you have been training under such difficult situation or conditions. And I like to think of posttraumatic growth is you got no bathing suits on maybe one, and now what's possible because you grew such phenomenal strength. This is the thing, people who are walking around the world with trauma, they are having to learn how to do things they're having, they're picking up all of these extra senses because they're exhausted. So they're like, how do I do that more efficiently? Or they're scared. So they're like, how do I read the room better? They're picking up super powers that they don't know that they're picking up, but because their nervous systems hijacked, they're also, you know, in constant States of hyper or collapse, which is like not very longterm functional, but when the hyper and collapse evens out and you're just in your range of resiliency, you still have all those super powers.

Rachael Maddox (26:04):

And that to me is posttraumatic growth. That's when you can use those super powers from a more regulated physiology, and then you can just be building on the super powers you have developed and asking yourself, instead of like, how do I experience less pain? How do I experience more pleasure? Or instead of how do I save everyone? How do we grow a healthy garden together? Or instead of how do I get out of this abusive situation? How do I create opportunities for, you know, women and girls to learn about financial independence? So they never get into those abusive situations. So these are the kinds of things that happen in post traumatic growth. The dreams that you have under the trauma spell become the reality of your post.

Amanda Testa (26:54):

Yes. I love that because you do the superpowers. It's like, so key. Thank you for that. And so, and I'd love to, if there's, you know, with regards to kind of that collective healing and creating that collective sanctuary, I'd love if you would maybe share, you know, maybe one or two things, if someone's like, I love that. How can I do that? And he wanted to cultivate that more in your own life. What would you invite for them as a possibility?

Rachael Maddox (27:25):

Yeah, well, you know, here's something that's really fun. Well, there I, okay. Two ideas. This is one idea. This is something I'm doing secretly about to two secretly. You can say to yourself who are six, five, six people that I resonate with, cellularly, who I want to see, grow and thrive, and you can invite them into a private free, short term mastermind. And you just say, we're going to gather for two hours a month, for four months, we're going to do one, two hour meeting per month for four months. We're going to ground together at the beginning. And then each person's going to get to come into the center of the circle and say like each person's going to get 13 minutes in the center. And each person's going to say what's up for them and ask for support from the group and receive support.

Rachael Maddox (28:25):

And if I were the one organizing that, which in this case, I am at this moment, I would invite people. I would ask myself, what are the questions I'm asking myself about my life and who might be asking similar questions or who might be one step ahead of me. And don't be afraid to invite people that are one step ahead of you, especially if you're a leader, especially if you're a teacher, especially if you're a guide or a coach, let yourself receive the wisdom of others, let yourself receive something. Somebody invited me into something like this, you know, a season or two ago. And it was so easy to say yes, cause I was like, wow, short term. You know, we ended up meeting like six times. We ended up doubling how much we met. It was really nice nourishing regenerative, all of these peers that I'd been seeing online and admiring, well now we dropped into relationship with each other.

Rachael Maddox (29:15):

That was wonderful. So that, right. That's one way to just make things really easy. Like it's not so hard to invite people into something, but right now also just being mindful, like everybody's on zoom so much people have full stressful lives. What would be an invitation? It'd be really easy for someone to say yes to what would be an invitation you would love to receive and can you receive it or can you offer it? So that's one, one thing. The other thing is, you know, possibly joining some kind of community that exists with like some kind of learning or healing community. So if there's right, the first way is a peer to peer circular kind of network that would be free. And I think we need way, way, way more of that because the dominant theme in our culture is pay the, the expert who knows everything.

Rachael Maddox (30:07):

And you know, that's a role that I play, not the expert who knows everything, but I'm a teacher who holds space. I've made it very important to me to have a more circular leadership. So the team that I have there's, you know, well, there's technically like nine of us, but you know, central team is like six of us and they're all paid and they're all paid well to be part of this circle and to be part of holding the leadership and that's going to continue more and more next year, like the decentralization of power and the training program and the circulation of money. But you know, if there's somebody that you admire and you think, you know, they've cultivated a community of regeneration, there's something they're doing over there. That seems like everybody in that space is getting healthier. Not everybody in that space is getting flashier or more like egotistically.

Rachael Maddox (31:01):

Cool. Okay. Like, or more followers, like, no, they're getting healthier in a deep root way. I can see it. I can watch I'm watching it happen. They're all getting healthier. Consider hopping in. Considering seeing what communities exist like that. There's a lot of them. There's so many give yourself the gift of showing up. Thank you. Yeah. And I'm wondering too, maybe if there's any other question that you wish that I would've asked that I didn't know or any, any other last words you'd like to share? Well, I can just say like on, on that note the ReBloom coach training is open for enrollment for 2021. It's an Epic program. If you've been resonating with what I've been talking about, this is sort of the, the heart and soul of a lot of what goes into the program. But the bigger picture, just to be brief is there are two levels.

Rachael Maddox (32:00):

Each of them are six months long and then there's a certification process. That's three month process after that. So it's about a year and a half because we take a month off in between the different levels. And I am just so excited for this program. If you are an experienced coach, teacher, facilitator, guide, therapist who maybe is already working with trauma or who, Oop, kitty cat, who's maybe already working with trauma or who's having a lot of clients or students come their way with trauma, but you're like, am I doing this effectively? Am I really serving these clients or these students to the best of my ability, maybe you're not in the most healthy relationship with your business. Maybe you want to be more on the program of creating cultural sanctuary in these times. And you want to be with other people who are doing that.

Rachael Maddox (32:53):

We are going deep slowly. So in the first six months, I'll just give you what this is my thing I'm most proud of after running programs for a long time, I feel like I finally am hitting my stride with the pacing. It's going to be a pacing of like four day online virtual workshop, a little bit of time off after then four weeks of lessons followed by three weeks of peer practices followed by one week off. And you repeat that cycle three times. So it's very well paced and that pace gives you the chance to receive, to integrate, to digest, to really let the material work on you and to incorporate it into your current business and practice at a titrated doable pace. So that's just a little snippet. There's a lot else I could say, but those are the things I'm excited about. And if you're interested check

Amanda Testa (33:51):

Highly recommend it because I have found it to be so amazing. And even if you've had, you know, training around trauma informed training of any kind before I think what it's helped me do so much as just embody it on a deeper level. And I, and I also just love the Rebloom that you can listen to art. We did a podcast in 2019, Rachel, and I talk to you more about the re bloom, the model and the different archetypes. So you can go back and listen to that, but it's just such a beautiful way. I love the nature that's connected to it. And just how it's. So it is it's so regenerative and it just really kind of widens the lens of how you can support people and do it on a deeper and wider level. So it is not just individual, but it's also collective, which I think is the key piece that I took from it as well is collective part awesome. And not always doing it myself for like, everything has to be myself, you know, it's like, that is draining and depleting.

Rachael Maddox (34:49):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so to grow the program more and more into that collective space, because, you know, it takes time to figure out how did we do that? Because we're also brainwashed into hyper individualism, right? There's a lot of unlearning that we're also doing as a, as a program. And we're continuing that process. We're committed to continue all and learning and collective growth.

Amanda Testa (35:15):

Thank you. Thank you so much. I am so grateful for you and all your teachings and all of it. You've brought to my life too. And so if anyone is listening and wants to learn more, please check it out because it's a fabulous program and you will leave feeling so much different than you walked in. I'll tell you that.

Rachael Maddox (35:33):

Thank you so much for having me. Amanda to connect in this way. I loved it. And I

Amanda Testa (35:38):

Thank you for this conversation. I so appreciate it. And for everyone listening, thank you for tuning in, and we will see you next week. Thank you so much for listening to the find your feminine fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa. And if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me@amandatesta.com/activate. We can have a heart to heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook and the group find your feminine fire group. And if you've enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends, go to iTunes and give me a five star rating and a raving review. So I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. Thank you so much for being a part of the community.